Zone1 Christian Zionism

[alang1216]

Distributions say otherwise. Even if it isn't for me to say who is and who isn't. But just because it's not for me to say, that doesn't mean I should ignore reality. So while I can say no one is all good or all bad, that does not preclude me from saying some are better than others and some are worse than others. That's just good old observation.

Thank you.

 

[alang1216]

Is Trump the exception to your rule? He's not good or bad, just a man?

Trump is an example. How many conventions has he ignored?
Going from good to bad necessitates a gradual erosion of standards.

 

[alang1216]

So you believe species evolve randomly for no good reason? And that different species serve no purpose? Do you even understand how evolution works?

We might be talking apples and oranges. Can you give me a reason a species evolved beyond just having an opportunity to evolve?

 

[Hafar1014]

All true, but connection is not reason or purpose. We are dependent on the sun, is that the purpose of the sun?

The connection is survival of the fittest to reach the ability to reproduce the healthiest offspring which increases the packs survival. Its called natual culling.
Based on your comments I would say in your case that never happened
Your analogy is so dumb it doesnt deserve an answer

 

[Mac-7]

Did those Christian Zionists not know there were people already living there or did they just not care?

The people (arabs) had no government and no nation

The Holy Lands were given by God to the Jews 3,000 years ago

When modern Israel was established in 1948 arabs living in Israel were allowed to remain although many choose yo leave

But they could have stayed

 

[alang1216]

The people (arabs) had no government and no nation

They were part of a nation, the Ottoman Empire.

The Holy Lands were given by God to the Jews 3,000 years ago

And taken away many times. Did God give it to the Arabs 1300 years ago? How do you know?

When modern Israel was established in 1948 arabs living in Israel were allowed to remain although many choose yo leave

But they could have stayed

Staying in a war zone is always the safest course of action. Especially if you have a family.

 

[ding]

Thank you.

Which is why you shouldn't be judging the person. You don't have perfect information. Feel free to judge the behaviors and actions though.

 

[ding]

Trump is an example. How many conventions has he ignored?
Going from good to bad necessitates a gradual erosion of standards.

Wait a minute. I'm testing the belief you stated. You said no man is good. No man is bad. They are just men. Is Trump just a man too? Not bad or good?

Yes, as a rule going from good to bad necessitates a gradual erosion of standards. So what? Because according to you, men are not bad and men are not good. They are just men.

 

[ding]

We might be talking apples and oranges. Can you give me a reason a species evolved beyond just having an opportunity to evolve?

You are saying there's no logic in the evolution of species. I am saying that species evolve for logical reasons. It's literally the basis of natural selection. Natural selection has two components; functional advantage and the transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. Natural selection acts non-randomly favoring traits that improve survival and reproduction, leading to predictable, directed changes in populations over time.

 

[ding]

All true, but connection is not reason or purpose. We are dependent on the sun, is that the purpose of the sun?

Why don't you start by looking up the definitions of reason and purpose?

The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The consequence of a logical universe is that every cause has an effect. Which means that everything happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The very nature of our physical laws point to reason and purpose.

 

[ding]

We are dependent on the sun, is that the purpose of the sun?

What roles does the sun play? It provides heat, light, other forms of radiation, gravity fields and is responsible for creating elements beyond hydrogen and helium. So... what do you think the purpose of the sun is?

 

[alang1216]

Wait a minute. I'm testing the belief you stated. You said no man is good. No man is bad. They are just men. Is Trump just a man too? Not bad or good?

Trump is just a man but his power magnifies his deeds.

Yes, as a rule going from good to bad necessitates a gradual erosion of standards. So what? Because according to you, men are not bad and men are not good. They are just men.

Are you talking about societies or people?

 

[alang1216]

You are saying there's no logic in the evolution of species. I am saying that species evolve for logical reasons. It's literally the basis of natural selection. Natural selection has two components; functional advantage and the transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. Natural selection acts non-randomly favoring traits that improve survival and reproduction, leading to predictable, directed changes in populations over time.

I understand the process. Do you agree evolution is entirely a natural process? Everything else is semantics.

 

[alang1216]

Why don't you start by looking up the definitions of reason and purpose?

The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The consequence of a logical universe is that every cause has an effect. Which means that everything happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The very nature of our physical laws point to reason and purpose.

More semantics? To me reason and purpose imply an underlying intelligence providing goals and direction. All I see are natural forces at work, not intelligence.

 

[alang1216]

What roles does the sun play? It provides heat, light, other forms of radiation, gravity fields and is responsible for creating elements beyond hydrogen and helium. So... what do you think the purpose of the sun is?

The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The sun provides us light but that is not why it exists.

 

[ding]

Trump is just a man but his power magnifies his deeds.

Does that make him a bad man? Or is he still just a man in your eyes? I'm trying to understand if your belief is conditional or not.

Are you talking about societies or people?

Both. Why wouldn't it apply to both?

I'm going to save us both some time. Just because I don't believe I should judge the person doesn't mean the person isn't good or bad. It only means I shouldn't judge them as such because I don't have perfect information. However. I can judge the specific actions and behaviors I have information about. So just because no one is all good or all bad, that doesn't mean they are not good or bad. It only means I'm not going to make that judgement because it will cloud or bias my objectivity when it comes to judging their behaviors and actions. We are unfairly critical of people we don't like and unfairly fair to people we do like. Bias of the person clouds judgement.

Whereas your position seems to go further. Your position seems to be that there is no judgment. That men are not good and that men are not bad. Men are just men and there is no distinction between good and bad. Which is why as bad as you want to say Trump is a bad man, your belief prevents you from saying that out loud despite how badly you want to say it. Furthermore, I don't believe your lying to yourself that Trump isn't a bad man keeps you from biasing your opinions on his actions and behaviors. Why? Because bias of the person clouds judgement.

 

[ding]

I understand the process. Do you agree evolution is entirely a natural process? Everything else is semantics.

Everything that has occurred since the universe popped into existence ~14 billion years ago has followed the laws of nature. Evolution isn't just limited to biology. Everything has evolved as space and time expanded and cooled. Every effect had a cause or reason and has progressed logically. So, yes, these are natural processes.

I don't know what you mean by "everything else is semantics." If you are trying to say that natural processes are inconsistent with the monotheistic belief of a creator, they are not. Natural processes and evolution are consistent with the monotheistic belief of a creator.

 

[alang1216]

Does that make him a bad man? Or is he still just a man in your eyes? I'm trying to understand if your belief is conditional or not.

Still just a man. I feel his good/bad ratio is skewed more towards the bad than the average person.

Both. Why wouldn't it apply to both?

I'm going to save us both some time. Just because I don't believe I should judge the person doesn't mean the person isn't good or bad. It only means I shouldn't judge them as such because I don't have perfect information.

So the distinction is purely academic and has no useful value?

However. I can judge the specific actions and behaviors I have information about. So just because no one is all good or all bad, that doesn't mean they are not good or bad. It only means I'm not going to make that judgement because it will cloud or bias my objectivity when it comes to judging their behaviors and actions. We are unfairly critical of people we don't like and unfairly fair to people we do like. Bias of the person clouds judgement.

I mostly agree. I usually say we judge our enemies by their worst actions and judge our friends by their best.

Whereas your position seems to go further. Your position seems to be that there is no judgment. That men are not good and that men are not bad. Men are just men and there is no distinction between good and bad.

I see good and bad as a continuum of MY values and everyone sits somewhere on that continuum.

Which is why as bad as you want to say Trump is a bad man, your belief prevents you from saying that out loud despite how badly you want to say it. Furthermore, I don't believe your lying to yourself that Trump isn't a bad man keeps you from biasing your opinions on his actions and behaviors. Why? Because bias of the person clouds judgement.

Trump, like all of us, is somewhere on MY continuum, he is just closer to the bad side than most others.

 

[alang1216]

Natural processes and evolution are consistent with the monotheistic belief of a creator.

True but they don't require a monotheistic creator. (Funny you should mention monotheistic belief since I recently got an insight into why Christianity is monotheistic. If you are interested we should take it to our endless Bull Ring thread)

 

[MarcATL]

Judeo-Christian is made up and always has been a crock of nonsense.