Chmn of Joint Chiefs: We Can Leave Iraq

[CSM]

I'm always civil when civily spoken to brother and I apopreciate your civility and fairness.

That being said .. SEE: PNAC: Rebuilding America's Defenses .. the plans are all there .. all that was required was a "New Pearl Harbor" .. and lo and behold, 9/11 just drops out of the sky.

What luck

PNAC is hardly the Pentagon....and yes from their perspective I suppose 9/11 was luck.

I am not a conspiracy theorist nor am I interested in pondering speculation of the many and varied conspiracy theories that abound so I will withdraw from this conversation. No hard feelings or slight intended at all.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

C'mon BAC, I don't be condescending...I try very hard to treat you as partner in reasonable discussion.

I suppose your statement aboout chasing terrorists could be viewed that way but consider this...perhaps the terrorist view pipelines as a more lucrative target than caribou herds in the Arctic Circle and thus are found in those regions containing pipelines.....

As for what you imagine....well I shudder to think what else you imagine!

I apologize, but I was NOT trying to be condescending.

I'm just trying to gauge where you are politically.

You don't sound like someone who supported the invasion of Iraq so I didn't bash you with it.

But, with all due respect, you might be a bit naive about what this government is capable of, and I don't think you've researched this thoroughly. If you had the same information I do, you may well come to the exact same conclusions.

Iraq was about oil and power.

Afghanistan is about pipelines and routes.

The rest is bullshit.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

PNAC is hardly the Pentagon....and yes from their perspective I suppose 9/11 was luck.

I am not a conspiracy theorist nor am I interested in pondering speculation of the many and varied conspiracy theories that abound so I will withdraw from this conversation. No hard feelings or slight intended at all.

No slight at all my brother. I've been here before.

This conversation gets too deep for most people.

 

[CSM]

No slight at all my brother. I've been here before.

This conversation gets too deep for most people.

Not a matter of "deep" for me...more like lack of interest. I would rather spend my brain power on other things.

 

[Sunni Man]

Iraq was about oil and power.

Afghanistan is about pipelines and routes.

The rest is bullshit.

You nailed it BAC!!!

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Not a matter of "deep" for me...more like lack of interest. I would rather spend my brain power on other things.

I understand .. never the less, this conversation is much too deep for most Americans. They don't want the red pill.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If I had the time I could lay out the entire plans .. they're not that clever .. but I don't. Hard enough trying to post and work at the same time as it is.

I imagine you think it's just coincidence we're chasing ghosts/terrorists only where there is oil and/or pipelines involved.

I imagine you think the conflict in Georgia is about "freedom."

Ya Osama being in Afghanistan is why Bush secretly ordered the attack on 9/11 and fixed it so Osama would get blamed, he even paid him to admit he did it, he paid the Taliban to refuse to turn him over. Ya I would say you need better Tin Foil indeed.

Once again no pipeline is even being built. And the plans are just that plans that have a snowballs chance in hell of occurring anytime soon.

Not one shred of evidence the Military is involved in it yet you insist we invaded for something after 6 years we still are "planning" years in the future.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Ya Osama being in Afghanistan is why Bush secretly ordered the attack on 9/11 and fixed it so Osama would get blamed, he even paid him to admit he did it, he paid the Taliban to refuse to turn him over. Ya I would say you need better Tin Foil indeed.

Once again no pipeline is even being built. And the plans are just that plans that have a snowballs chance in hell of occurring anytime soon.

Not one shred of evidence the Military is involved in it yet you insist we invaded for something after 6 years we still are "planning" years in the future.

Don't get it twisted .. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Stick with "pipelines aren't being built and there are no plans to build any."

You believing that bullshit is fine by me.

 

[Againsheila]

Ya Osama being in Afghanistan is why Bush secretly ordered the attack on 9/11 and fixed it so Osama would get blamed, he even paid him to admit he did it, he paid the Taliban to refuse to turn him over. Ya I would say you need better Tin Foil indeed.

Once again no pipeline is even being built. And the plans are just that plans that have a snowballs chance in hell of occurring anytime soon.

Not one shred of evidence the Military is involved in it yet you insist we invaded for something after 6 years we still are "planning" years in the future.

I do not know if our military had anything to do with 9/11, I am however, certain that Bush knew it was coming. A member of his family was the head of security at the WTC and quit on 9/10. The only people allowed to fly after the WTC was attacked on 9/11 was Osama's family as our government flew them out of the country before they could even be questioned by the FBI.

 

[Sunni Man]

I do not know if our military had anything to do with 9/11, I am however, certain that Bush knew it was coming. A member of his family was the head of security at the WTC and quit on 9/10. The only people allowed to fly after the WTC was attacked on 9/11 was Osama's family as our government flew them out of the country before they could even be questioned by the FBI.

You have just scratched the surface Againsheila. Keep digging, it gets worse!!!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I do not know if our military had anything to do with 9/11, I am however, certain that Bush knew it was coming. A member of his family was the head of security at the WTC and quit on 9/10. The only people allowed to fly after the WTC was attacked on 9/11 was Osama's family as our government flew them out of the country before they could even be questioned by the FBI.

Members of his family that were not on good terms with him, had no intel to give us and were in danger from hotheads. Bush only knew that an attack was planned. No one knew where, how or when. Thanks to Clinton, even though the different intel services all had pieces of the puzzle none of them were allowed to talk to one another.

 

[Paulie]

Ooops is correct. The article you cite is from 2006 and I have yet to hear of any pipeline constucted, in the process of being constructed or even planned. In fact, your article even states that such a pipeline plan at that time would probably fall into oblivion and apparently it did.

So I ask again, what the heck do pipelines have to do with cross border operations into Pakistan?

There is a section of the proposed pipeline that would run through terrority still under de facto Taliban control. A feasibility study done by the Asian Development Bank concluded this would pose a problem.

ASIAN DEVELOPMENT BANK PRESENTS FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR TRANS-AFGHANPIPELINE | Central Asia-Caucasus Institute Analyst

ASIAN DEVELOPMENT BANK PRESENTS FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR TRANS-AFGHANPIPELINE

By (01/17/2005 issue of the CACI Analyst)

Turkmenistan\'s government announced in a press release that the British company Penspen has completed a feasibility study of the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan pipeline and presented it to the energy ministers of Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, and Turkmenistan. The 1,680-kilometer pipeline, running from Turkmenistan to Fazilka, India on the Indian-Pakistani border, will cost $3.3 billion and have an annual transport capacity of 33 billion cubic meters of natural gas. According to the press release, the TAP steering committee will discuss the feasibility study at its next meeting in February in Islamabad, with construction tentatively scheduled to begin in 2006 if all legal hurdles are successfully cleared. (turkmenistan.ru)

The countries involved have signed an agreement to purchase large amounts of natural gas from Turkmenistan. They did so back in April of this year. China has also signed a deal with Turk as well.

China, Turkmenistan sign natural gas deals - International Herald Tribune

BEIJING: China has signed a 30-year contract to buy gas from Turkmenistan, a state news agency said Wednesday, giving the resource-rich Central Asian nation a boost in its effort to realign away from its former rulers in Moscow.

...

China's biggest oil company, China National Petroleum Corp., said it would import 30 billion cubic meters of natural gas annually for 30 years through a planned Central Asian pipeline, Xinhua reported.

Turkmenistan's natural gas reserves of 2.8 trillion cubic meters, the second-biggest among all ex-Soviet republics after Russia, are a major prize in the region.

But Turkmenistan has been forced to export its gas through Russia and Ukraine, which have their own gas companies that have squeezed out their smaller rival. Turkmenistan is eager to break free from Russia's influence and sees exports to China as one solution.

Then there's this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/13/world/europe/13putin.html

Russia to Get Central Asian Pipeline

By ILAN GREENBERG
Published: May 13, 2007
Correction Appended

ALMATY, Kazakhstan, May 12 — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia brokered an agreement on Saturday with two Central Asian countries to build a new gas pipeline to Russia, delivering a major setback to continuing American efforts to send Central Asian natural gas exports directly to Europe.

The presidents of Russia, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan agreed to build a new pipeline around the Caspian Sea, giving Russia significantly more control over much of Central Asia's vast natural gas reserves. Russia has its own bounty of natural gas, but the country's gas monopoly, Gazprom, has preferred to distribute subsidized domestic gas internally while reselling Central Asian gas to Europe at prices that are typically more than double what it is charged.

Yeah, I'm sure that's not bothering the US govt. at all.

This whole thing is pretty easily researched. It's not a conspiracy theory, this is a real project planned for and funded by real people, in real countries. Zalmay Khalilzad, our UN Ambassador, was an advisor to a company called UNOCAL, who was in the bidding for the construction of the pipeline with another company from Argentina. In the 80's the CIA revived its practice of using private sector business agents for intel gathering, and one of Unocal's executives was providing intel to the CIA from negotiations he was involved in with several central Asian countries regarding a pipeline deal.

The only thing stopping this pipeline from moving forward is uncertainty in Afghanistan, mainly because of the Taliban still controlling some regions. There is also a lot of resistance from Russia as well. I'm sure it's no surprise or coincidence that Russia is back in the media/government doghouse, and so is Afghanistan. After all, they are both standing in the way of something very big.

You guys can choose to pretend it's not real, but the facts are right in there in your face.

 

[DavidS]

I do not know if our military had anything to do with 9/11, I am however, certain that Bush knew it was coming. A member of his family was the head of security at the WTC and quit on 9/10. The only people allowed to fly after the WTC was attacked on 9/11 was Osama's family as our government flew them out of the country before they could even be questioned by the FBI.

You are incorrect.

Marvin P. Bush served on the board of a company that was in charge of security for Dulles Airport, US Air and the World Trade Center until 9/10. Marvin had resigned from the board years before that, though.

 

[CSM]

There is a section of the proposed pipeline that would run through terrority still under de facto Taliban control. A feasibility study done by the Asian Development Bank concluded this would pose a problem.

ASIAN DEVELOPMENT BANK PRESENTS FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR TRANS-AFGHANPIPELINE | Central Asia-Caucasus Institute Analyst



The countries involved have signed an agreement to purchase large amounts of natural gas from Turkmenistan. They did so back in April of this year. China has also signed a deal with Turk as well.

China, Turkmenistan sign natural gas deals - International Herald Tribune





Then there's this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/13/world/europe/13putin.html



Yeah, I'm sure that's not bothering the US govt. at all.

This whole thing is pretty easily researched. It's not a conspiracy theory, this is a real project planned for and funded by real people, in real countries. Zalmay Khalilzad, our UN Ambassador, was an advisor to a company called UNOCAL, who was in the bidding for the construction of the pipeline with another company from Argentina. In the 80's the CIA revived its practice of using private sector business agents for intel gathering, and one of Unocal's executives was providing intel to the CIA from negotiations he was involved in with several central Asian countries regarding a pipeline deal.

The only thing stopping this pipeline from moving forward is uncertainty in Afghanistan, mainly because of the Taliban still controlling some regions. There is also a lot of resistance from Russia as well. I'm sure it's no surprise or coincidence that Russia is back in the media/government doghouse, and so is Afghanistan. After all, they are both standing in the way of something very big.

You guys can choose to pretend it's not real, but the facts are right in there in your face.

All that and still no pipeline or guarantees of one.