China to develop more aircraft carriers

[Mindlight]

Mao may have been a blood stained deceiver but those who have followed after him have not been so bad...

"Not so bad"? ????????

By Global standards Mao was one of the most evil rulers ever to walk the planet. The body count from his wars and purges being the evidence of this. He was a destroyer. But without the destruction of old China that he accomplished I doubt China would be so prosperous. By Chinese standards the latest leaders have been good ones facilitating peace and prosperity. The average Chinese has more choice and opportunity today than in any previous generation. This is an improvement on what came before in pre WW1 China

The reality is that they'd probably be further along if they hadn't had their productive capacity destroyed and put backwards for so many years after the civil war.

No I very much doubt that. The Chiang Kai-shek regime was corrupt, incompetent and incredibly disunited. Modern China would have been a vast corrupt gangster state and if they built aircraft carriers they would probably have been empty shells with all the key technologies stolen during the construction process. Also the Communists had the peoples hearts. Also it is doubtful that they would have been able to extricate themselves from negative foreign influences as thoroughly as did Mao. Also the nuclear deterrant which safeguarded Chinas borders would not have been as quickly developed as it required Soviet support. Communism was probably Chinas cleanest and most effective way to the future but the Communist party now is hardly recognisable as a real Communist party. Now it is a ruling elite that unites the country and with mistaken ideas about establishing Chinese regional hegemony. The bitterness against Japan should drive Japan into the arms of the Americans because really they have no where else to go.

 

[Mindlight]

More the merrier I guess.

---

BEIJING: Buoyed by successful trials of its first aircraft carrier, China plans to build more new carriers as it looks to spread out its global naval presence in the midst of maritime disputes with a host of neighbors.

China is planning to build more aircraft carriers in addition to the two-year-old Liaoning, which it purchased from Ukraine and commissioned in 2012, state-run Global Times reported on Monday.

Although Chinese authorities have never openly confirmed whether a homemade carrier is underway, they have also never denied it.

China to develop more aircraft carriers - The Times of India

Maybe we should've considered communist china as a strategic problem before we invested in their industry and moved tens of millons of our jobs there and made them such a big trading partner and let the democrats sell out all of our secrets to them and and and and and and ....

Kissinger had a choice between continued hostility and trying to bring China into the international community. The later is probably a better strategy because as a result China has become dependent on the trade it enjoys with the rest of the world. The Chinese growth engine is very popular in China and has been a spur to world growth also. If it stops then the ruling elite know they are in trouble so China has no place to go except up. Grow or break is Chinas reality. My view is that America is probably better off with a prosperous and capitalist China than with the vastly enlarged and far more dangerous version of North Korea that it would have otherwise been.

 

[Mindlight]

Both Chinese and Japanese cultures have strong national mythologies about why we should regard them as the superior people. ....

So does everyone else.

Some claims are more credible than others or do you really believe that the Emperors lineage includes the sun goddess?

You seem to believe in straw men.

Except this is not.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

While China's Navy may be inept compared to ours, never underestimate their ability to move forward and end up with a global threat on the seas over time........................

The disputed Islands and flexing of muscles in the region are real................

Japan has begun arming up over the situation............

Japan increases defence budget amid tensions with China World news The Guardian

Japan is to significantly increase its defence spending over the next five years to acquire surveillance drones, fighter jets, naval destroyers and amphibious vehicles to counteract China's growing military activity in the region.

New defence and security strategies ordered by Japan's conservative prime minister, Shinzo Abe, and approved on Tuesday, include the creation of a new amphibious unit modelled on the US marines, which would be called on to retake islands captured by an enemy – a clear response to Chinese naval and aerial activity near the disputed Senkaku islands.

Relations between Japan and China have sunk to their lowest point in decades over the East China Sea islands, which are administered by Japan but also claimed by China.

Over the past year Chinese surveillance ships have made regular incursions into waters near the islands, and last month Beijing increased the pressure on Tokyo when it declared an air-defence identification zone across a wide area of the East China Sea that includes the Senkakus, known in China as the Diaoyu. The islands' location makes them strategically important, and they are thought to lie amid potentially huge natural gas deposits.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Kevin_Kennedy

The link below chronicles the timeline of Senkaku dispute between China and Japan. Note that in 1969 the UN reported that there was oil deposit near Senkaku Islands. Two years later, China and Taiwan officially claim Senkaku Islands. Don't you think that is bizarre?

Timeline of Japan-China Dispute Over East China Sea Islands

I think there's a problem with your link, and that problem is that the timeline only goes as far back as 1895 and cites no sources to back up its claims. China was at one point the most advanced civilization on the planet and could very well have made a claim on the Senkaku islands before Japan. Does that mean that they did? No, but it does seem strange that an ancient and expanding civilization would simply ignore uninhabited territory for so long.

Regardless, let's assume that your link is correct. "Japan unilaterally annexes five islands and three barren rock groups in the East China Sea, calls them "Senkaku."" Where did Japan get the right to unilaterally annex these islands? Does taking and administering the islands, as you called it, give them the right to the islands? Of course this criticism also applies to China. Assuming they had annexed and administered the islands I see no more right for them to claim them than Japan.

Furthermore, I find your position that Japan's alleged claiming of this territory in earlier times gives them a right to the islands today a bit hypocritical. Earlier in the thread you said of China, "What is their excuse for invading and killing Tibetans?" Their excuse is the same excuse you're putting forward for Japan's ownership of the Senkaku islands, that Tibet was a legitimate part of China and that they were simply reclaiming their territory. If you're going to accept Japan's ownership of Senkaku on this basis, and assuming that it's factually correct, then you have to also accept China's ownership of Tibet because nobody disputes that Tibet was a part of China for a long time before they tried to declare independence during the Chinese Civil War.

My position is that neither Japan nor China has a legitimate claim to the islands, and that their military posturing over the islands, along with the U.S. government's backing of Japan, is possibly the most dangerous conflict on the planet right now.

The islands are going to belong to whoever wants them badly enough to take them. If that means military force, and I'm sure it's going to, then so be it. Most of the guerrilla wars in Asia, with the exception of things like insurrections by China's Muslims, are all about oil.

 

[Politico]

Again China cannot launch or land any planes on the one refurbished carrier they have.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

China has to cover Russias backdoor when Russia pre-emptively nuclear strikes the USA.

Neither will attack the US.

And then it doesn't really matter who spends the most. It's the quality and superiority of the end product that matters. Time Magazine devoted most of an issue late last year to American military spending and the end products we're getting for our tax dollar. American military prowess is just spectacular. No one else in the world comes anywhere close. Alarmists as they existed during the Cold War have no reason for being any longer. The one place we're sorrowfully lacking is the most basic contingent of any nation's military readiness: ground troops. Infantry, armor, artillery, etc. is where the American military sees serious shortcomings in numbers. It's all volunteer now. Some of our military personnel did half a dozen tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. I communicate with several every day here in the US. They're very tired. They're sick of fighting. I can hardly blame them.

 

[Unkotare]

Had no part of it?
....

Yes, had no part of it. You never fired a single shot in WWII, yet you pretend to harbor a grudge that isn't yours. Many men - many times your betters - managed to reconcile wartime enemies with peacetime allies, but not a pretender like you? You are a false little poseur.

 

[Unkotare]

I find your callous attitude towards Japanese folks disturbing.

How many uncles or great uncles of yours died in Jap camps or in the Marines fighting them?

Former enemies meet to honor dead - Baltimore Sun

But you, who had no real part in any of it, pretend to hold onto a grudge that isn't yours to hold? It speaks ill of your character.

Had no part of it?

Heard of my grandmother's only son's death all my life.

So, fuck yourself, WWII cast a pall over all of us all our lives.

I wish the fuckers had caught ten more nukes.

Chinese too have killed Americans. Have you forgotten Korean war? Does this mean Americans should continue to hold grudge against Chinese forever?

If we continue to think in terms of nothing but vengeance then we will never get out of this vicious cycle of vengeance. If you justify Chinese people killing Japanese based on past actions of Japanese then the next generation of Japanese will want vengeance against Chinese.

Chinese have killed 690,000 Tibetans. Should Tibetans seek vengeance against Chinese who had nothing to do with these acts of Chinese government?

Considering the ill will shown on this and other boards toward Southerners, any lectures on the past, and forgetting, mean nothing.

Officer, the straw man just appeared out of nowhere!

 

[Unkotare]

Both Chinese and Japanese cultures have strong national mythologies about why we should regard them as the superior people. ....

So does everyone else.

Some claims are more credible than others or do you really believe that the Emperors lineage includes the sun goddess?

You seem to believe in straw men.

Except this is not.

By definition it is, since no one made the claim to which you allude.

 

[2aguy]

Mao may have been a blood stained deceiver but those who have followed after him have not been so bad...

"Not so bad"? ????????

By Global standards Mao was one of the most evil rulers ever to walk the planet. The body count from his wars and purges being the evidence of this. He was a destroyer. But without the destruction of old China that he accomplished I doubt China would be so prosperous. By Chinese standards the latest leaders have been good ones facilitating peace and prosperity. The average Chinese has more choice and opportunity today than in any previous generation. This is an improvement on what came before in pre WW1 China

The reality is that they'd probably be further along if they hadn't had their productive capacity destroyed and put backwards for so many years after the civil war.

No I very much doubt that. The Chiang Kai-shek regime was corrupt, incompetent and incredibly disunited. Modern China would have been a vast corrupt gangster state and if they built aircraft carriers they would probably have been empty shells with all the key technologies stolen during the construction process. Also the Communists had the peoples hearts. Also it is doubtful that they would have been able to extricate themselves from negative foreign influences as thoroughly as did Mao. Also the nuclear deterrant which safeguarded Chinas borders would not have been as quickly developed as it required Soviet support. Communism was probably Chinas cleanest and most effective way to the future but the Communist party now is hardly recognisable as a real Communist party. Now it is a ruling elite that unites the country and with mistaken ideas about establishing Chinese regional hegemony. The bitterness against Japan should drive Japan into the arms of the Americans because really they have no where else to go.

Communism was China's cleanest way.....they had the people's hearts?...wow....you must have gone to a government school controlled by the education wing of the democrat party...

that whole murdering 70 million people was them just sorting things out...right? Had they tried...oh, I don't know, freedom and democracy...and not killing 70 million people ,you don't think that would have worked out better for the people of China?...of course you don't....you were probably at the top of your class in whatever government school controlled by the education wing of the democrat party that you went to, for you to believe that nonsense....

Perhaps if mao the murderer had butchered 70 million more people he would have really had the hearts of the people......unbelievable.....

 

[2aguy]

This is the point about communism...the left still has a warm spot for it...longs for it.....


I can't think of any sane person who would say that nazism was the cleanest, most effective way to lift Germany out of it's post war doldrums.....and they only murdered about 12 million people outside of the people killed in their war on the allies....and not be considered a monster, or at least an ignorant moron....

But the communist mao....he murders close to, or over 70 million people and that isn't even mentioned as a side note in that post

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

This is the point about communism...the left still has a warm spot for it...longs for it.....


I can't think of any sane person who would say that nazism was the cleanest, most effective way to lift Germany out of it's post war doldrums.....and they only murdered about 12 million people outside of the people killed in their war on the ally....and not be considered a monster, or at least an ignorant moron....

But the communist mao....he murders close to, or over 70 million people and that isn't even mentioned as a side note in that post

Communism is just another term for tyrants who have a group of tyrants that kill anything that opposes their will. Stalin and Mao being perfect examples. Who didn't care how many died to get power and control over the people in those countries.

Communism is BS...........it is about domination and control and as history has shown the slaughter of millions.

 

[eagle1462010]

political prisoners used as organ donors. currently going on.

 

[2aguy]

why is it that communism gets a pass.....communists murdered close to 100 million people, from around the world, and there are people today who still look to it fondly.....who openly March in democrat parades and rally's and aren't heckled and ridiculed out of the public square....they proudly carry signs calling themselves communists....and no one says boo to them, they wear the images of communist mass murderers on t-shirts and posters, and people just don't care....

Just look at post # 121....imagine if they had posted the same thing about nazi Germany....they would have been immediately called out......yet they say the same thing about an even more monsterous regime, but a communist one....and it is okay.....just unbelievable

 

[eagle1462010]

why is it that communism gets a pass.....communists murdered close to 100 million people, from around the world, and there are people today who still look to it fondly.....who openly March in democrat parades and rally's and aren't heckled and ridiculed out of the public square....they proudly carry signs calling themselves communists....and no one says boo to them, they wear the images of communist mass murderers on t-shirts and posters, and people just don't care....

Just look at post # 121....imagine if they had posted the same thing about nazi Germany....they would have been immediately called out......yet they say the same thing about an even more monsterous regime, but a communist one....and it is okay.....just unbelievable

They refuse to see the reality of what happened in places like Russia and China....................They ignore it.............Are they purposely ignorant.................don't know..............but history shows what the communist really were and the horrors they put upon their people.