PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #81
The suggesting was made that you are involved in some business fashion with the Volt....or any electric vehicles...
is this the case, or merely an owner of one?
It would be informative to know.
Chevrolet Volt
- Thread starter PoliticalChic
- Start date
The suggesting was made that you are involved in some business fashion with the Volt....or any electric vehicles...
is this the case, or merely an owner of one?
It would be informative to know.
I suggest you reread the history of commercial aviation because, as usual, you are flat ass wrong. Post WWI most aviation companies folded. Those that survived did so absent Government monies for the most part. They survived by developing airline travel and sport aviation. On their own. The only help the airlines got was by carrying the mail. The government tried to run the mail but after a series of fatal accidents the mail service was transferred to the airlines.
Read the history of any aviation company post WWI and it is one of scrabbling for money to survive. Those companies that came up with the best ideas and technologies survived, most didn't.
"In the year 1911 demonstrations of airplane mail service were made in India, England and the United States. The first air mail service in the United States, however, was conducted at the aviation meeting at Nassau Boulevard, Long Island, N. Y., during the week of September 23 to 30, 1911. Earle L. Ovington, with his "Queen" monoplane, was duly appointed an air mail carrier and covered a set route between the temporary post office established at the flying field and the post office at Mineola, N. Y., dropping the pouches at the latter point for the postmaster to pick up. This service, performed without expense to the Department, was flown at regular intervals during the period, a total of 32,415 post cards, 3,993 letters and 1,062 circulars being carried. It was quite satisfactory on the whole, and very promising.
A few other similar experiments were made during the remainder of the year 1911, and the Post Office Department recognizing the possibility of developing the airplane into a practicable means of aerial transportation, made recommendation to Congress early in 1912 for an appropriation of $50,000 with which to start an experimental service, but Congress refused to grant the appropriation. Notwithstanding, the keen interest of the Post Office Department in aerial transportation was kept up and during the fiscal year 1912 a total of 31 orders, covering 16 different states, were issued permitting mail to be carried on short exhibition and experimental flights between certain points. Such service was merely temporary, of course, but performed in each instance by a sworn carrier, and without expense to the Department. These experimental flights were continued, however, request being made on Congress for an air mail appropriation from year to year."
History of the Air Mail Service
More like 5000 years ago, but who's counting. I've actually been to Knossos and it is very impressive, the water channels are amazing.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Really. You mean that the airlines developed the engines, ect. on their own? That there was little transfer of technology from military to civilian aviation? So what was a Boeing 707 before it was the 707?
I guess you still don't know how to read a map do you!
There's a lot of blue states getting WAY more money from the government then the red states. And more to the point, those states that get the most money back are those with lots of land under plow but very little relative population so it sorta makes sense that that happens, no?But hey I live in the state that gets the least amount of money back from the feds, guess that means we're better then those leeches up in Oregon eh?
I guess you missed the AMG part huh? That would be like equating a Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren with an "E" Class. Let me educate you a bit, in Germany (where nearly every taxi cab you see is a Merc) if you drive up to a casino in an AMG or an SLR, you will get noticed in a New York minute and you will be very well taken care of. It is the duty of those in the service industry to notice the small details, it gets them taken care of as well.
You on the other hand revel in buying a car that is useless outside of a urban setting and furhtermore you revel in the fact that all the rest of us are helping you pay for your car...typical.
Slapshot28
Member
No, I have no association whatsoever with GM, or with any EV initiative. I'm just a happy Volt owner. My public profile is here: www[dot]linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6802886 (sorry, I can't post real urls on this forum).
All Volt owners are well-aware of the Consumer Reports article, which most of us consider badly slanted. There is some mis-information in that article (specifically the 30 MPG number is pure-gas mode is well-below any real experience), and actually I think some of what you quoted might not be 100% correct (the range of 22-27 I believe refers to all-electric range in miles, and not mpg; and, it's also at the very lowest end of real experience).
One significant incongruity that I couldn't understand in your original post regarded electricity rates. While surely NY is among the most expensive in the country, the information I can found suggests a rate of about 17 or 18 cents/kwh. The average across the country is about 10 cents/kwh (www[dot]eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=electricity_factors_affecting_prices)
It sounds like you like the Nissan Leaf, and I applaud you for that. Pure EV is a great solution, if it matches your driving patterns and vehicle needs (which it does for many people). Furthermore, as battery range increases, pure EV cars will garner much broader appeal. Certainly going forward we will see more and more EV and EREV offerings from many auto companies, no question. Here is the one that I REALLY want: YouTube: Jaguar C-X75 Electric-Turbine.
Thank you very much for following up to my posts here.
Chris
PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #88
No, I have no association whatsoever with GM, or with any EV initiative. I'm just a happy Volt owner. My public profile is here: www[dot]linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6802886 (sorry, I can't post real urls on this forum).
All Volt owners are well-aware of the Consumer Reports article, which most of us consider badly slanted. There is some mis-information in that article (specifically the 30 MPG number is pure-gas mode is well-below any real experience), and actually I think some of what you quoted might not be 100% correct (the range of 22-27 I believe refers to all-electric range in miles, and not mpg; and, it's also at the very lowest end of real experience).
One significant incongruity that I couldn't understand in your original post regarded electricity rates. While surely NY is among the most expensive in the country, the information I can found suggests a rate of about 17 or 18 cents/kwh. The average across the country is about 10 cents/kwh (www[dot]eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=electricity_factors_affecting_prices)
It sounds like you like the Nissan Leaf, and I applaud you for that. Pure EV is a great solution, if it matches your driving patterns and vehicle needs (which it does for many people). Furthermore, as battery range increases, pure EV cars will garner much broader appeal. Certainly going forward we will see more and more EV and EREV offerings from many auto companies, no question. Here is the one that I REALLY want: YouTube: Jaguar C-X75 Electric-Turbine.
Thank you very much for following up to my posts here.
Chris
Go ahead...rub it in re: our electric rates in NYC!
I keep trying to correct the record, but folks think I have written an opinion piece in the OP...I have not.
I always post about subjects that interest me, and when I read the latest CR article, I thought it would interest others, as well.
Again, outside of the NYC electric rates, the entire OP is taken from the CR article. You can probably find it on line at some minimal cost, to verify same.
I am far from shy about posting my opinions, but I have no personal opinion about the Volt or the Leaf.
I do have an opinion about government selection of winners and losers, vs. the free market, but that will be for another thread.
Thank you for answering my question.
BTW, I loved 'Slapshot:' we're big hockey fans here.
My team was eliminated yesterday. And I hate your team.
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Slapshot28
Member
Oh, sorry. I was not trying to rub anything in
Oh come on, how can you hate the Broad Street Bullies? (We are on the brink of elimination today...)
Your avatar must THE BEST on the Internet!!!
And I'm with you on government intervention.
Big Fitz
User Quit *****
- Nov 23, 2009
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Maybe there's time to rename this car the Chevy Edsal.
This car is DOA.
Can't wait for the bitching to start the first time the holier than thou greenies discover how little they save when it's -10 outside, they're freezing cold and their car only runs 40 miles on the gas engine.
This car is DOA.
Can't wait for the bitching to start the first time the holier than thou greenies discover how little they save when it's -10 outside, they're freezing cold and their car only runs 40 miles on the gas engine.
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
I drive a CLS-550 AMG Diamond White Edition Mercedes Benz- the car cost a lot of money and is also expensive to maintain and insure. The tires alone are $1,800 to replace and only last about 30,000 miles. I don't pretend it was a good financial choice. I had other reasons for buying it- none were financial.
The VOLT, by contrast, is marketed as a money saving vehicle.
It is a glorified golf cart that costs a small fortune to own when compared to truly economical cars like the Versa, Yaris, et. al.
Ouch on the Mercedes. But hey, I have a 68 Mustang not because it is efficient but because it is fun. Have a rep for admitting you bought your car because u like it.
Thanks Tornado- yes it's a ridiculously expensive car. But I can afford it and what the hell, it makes me feel important when I pull up to the valet.
Actually, my wife drives it most of the time. I drive a Nissan Titan pick up truck for business. I have always lived well below my means and because of that, I am now financially independent (meaning that I work because I want to, not because I have too!). When I was in the accumulation phase of life, I drove and purchased used cars that got good mileage and were inexpensive to own. I delayed gratification for a very long time to be able to drive around in that overpriced car.
very well said,I bought a Mustang GT in 05, when the new body style came out, my wife called it my MCC....my midlife crisis car, yea, I'll cop to that.
In late 06 when the advertised the Shelby GT 500 Cobra, I bought one, that was really my dream car,it was the car I could never afford back in the day when they came out originally and even used, no dice ( 67-68).
And yes it has concomitant costs over and above say the GT or another car of its similar model, the brakes require rotors when they are serviced, the tires and alignment for correct cast and camber as the balance because of the sport package and drive tuning wears out the tires in 15K... it is as one would expect way expensive, hello, its a high performance automobile.
As Toronado3800 and you allude, its not a car that one buys lightly but one buys when they reach a point in their life where they can reap the reward for being successful, sometimes frugal,as you manage well and have done well enough to buy that kind of toy.
the volt? well hey if someone wants to sooth their conscience and convince themselves they are buying a vehicle that will help the environment, have it, but don't expect any hurrah's from me, because its a no go.
It doesn't do what its advertised to do and no one, via rebate or otherwise financially rewarded me for buying my car, I paid the full reg. and tax fees,I don't get to ride around in the car pool lane etc. I admit it has absolutely no impact other than on my driving joy and ego...I just wish that those folks who buy the volt would admit same.
Wry Catcher
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #92
A real cost-benefit analysis might take into consideration many more variables then listed in the OP. Consider a few:
1. The cost to the taxpayer for a foreign/military/defense/energy policy predicated on our addiciton to oil which may have created the climate for radical muslims to hate our country and seek to do us harm;
2. The environmental/health costs associated with air pollution, a bi-product of the internal combustion engine and the burning of coal;
3. The environmental/health costs associated with water pollution; a bi-product of coal mine production washing into steams and rivers;
4. The bi-products of oil from vehicles washing into storm drains and eventually into the oceans;
5. The average miles driven by commuters in the U.S.;
6. The ability of science and industry to R&D new, better and more efficient products;
7. The competition amongy vehicle manufacturers worldwide to develop alternative type vehicles.
1. The cost to the taxpayer for a foreign/military/defense/energy policy predicated on our addiciton to oil which may have created the climate for radical muslims to hate our country and seek to do us harm;
2. The environmental/health costs associated with air pollution, a bi-product of the internal combustion engine and the burning of coal;
3. The environmental/health costs associated with water pollution; a bi-product of coal mine production washing into steams and rivers;
4. The bi-products of oil from vehicles washing into storm drains and eventually into the oceans;
5. The average miles driven by commuters in the U.S.;
6. The ability of science and industry to R&D new, better and more efficient products;
7. The competition amongy vehicle manufacturers worldwide to develop alternative type vehicles.
kiwiman127
Comfortably Moderate
Here's another review of the Volt.
Another overview of the 2011 Chevrolet Volt: Voltec Technology Wins Edmunds' 2011 Green Car Breakthrough Award.
2011 Chevrolet Volt Archives - Long-Term Road Tests
I could have worded my response post better. To be more accurate,,,,"Another OP that ignites the oil-addicted righties to show that, when the right said they wanted their country back, they weren't kidding,,,,backwards"
And you have a nice Easter too.
Zander
Platinum Member
The Volt....
a very expensive golf cart.
a very expensive golf cart.
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
Wry Catcher
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #96
The Volt....
a very expensive golf cart.
To be expected, a stupid post followed by an echo.
Big Fitz
User Quit *****
- Nov 23, 2009
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You have one critical flaw in your list.
First prove direct harm from auto pollution and personal health from general exposure that cannot be attributed to other sources. Once that is done, your premise may have much more credibility. No proof of direct causation, no proof of costs being linked to cars.
Also, when's the last time a car was run on coal? 1892?
Do you know what the difference is between medicine and poison many times?
Dosage.
You need proof of direct causation by even minute to trace amounts of pollution to health. Case in point, how's the Deepwater spill harming people still outside of unemployment by an anti-capitalist administration?
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
The Volt....
a very expensive golf cart.
To be expected, a stupid post followed by an echo.
yes you're right; posting stupidity is your domain , I'll ask for a copyright next time.......I apologize.
Wry Catcher
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #99
Maybe introducing coal was a step too far. I withdraw that example. Though there is no such thing as clean coal.
How many commuters drive a greater distance to and from work than can be accomplished by an all electric car? For over 30 years my commute was less than 30 miles. BTW, electric cars have HVAC systems, CD/Radios and even seat belts and air bags (ooops, I forget, making people wear seat belts deprives them of liberty and air bags are one more example of government interference).
I suppose you don't recall SMOG alerts/acid rain before another interference by government -removing lead and adding afterburngers to the exhaust system of vehicles.
See: Killer London Smog of 1952
Let me suggest a test: Go to your garage and get a garden house and your car keys. Step two, place one end of the garden hose in the tailpipe and the other through a small opening in the front drivers side window. Last step: start the car and breath deeply the exhaust from the TP now entering the cab of the vehicle.
No one will ever confuse carbon monoxide with medicine (at least more than one time).
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Synthaholic
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2010
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If you didn't 'forget' about it, you must have left it out on purpose.
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