Changing minds is more complicated than simply exposing poor arguments

[Tommy Tainant]

Average Rate of COVID Death Today -- Feb 6, 2022:

U.S. 7-day average deaths per day -- 2,576
/ population (330 million) -- 7.81 per million
/ days (7) -- 1.12 per million per day

U.K. 7-day average deaths per day -- 223
/ population (67.2 million) -- 3.32 per million
/ days (7) -- 0.474 per million per day

ISRAEL 7-day average deaths per day -- 65
/ population (8.87 million) -- 7.33 per million
/ days (7) -- 1.18 per million per day

Horrible tragedy going on in Israel there resulting in slightly more death than in the U.S.A.
Ergo: At worst, a whopping tad more than 1 death per million people per day.
During a worldwide pandemic.
Wowza. Holy crap! STOP the presses! Obviously the vaccines aren't working!

The UK eath rates show that the vax is working. Certainly when you compare it to the killing fields of the US. Lord knows what goes on in the apartheid state.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I'm was just trying point out that Israel remains far too small of a sample to conclude much of anything from in regard to this pandemic. They've been well vaccinated and only during the past week or so hit a peak of like 8 deaths per million. Even that still spells success in my book. But I'm not saying anyone should necessarily run out and get a booster at this point. I haven't yet. From what I've gathered it ain't really worth the bother, at least for me. My wife got it and her arm was very sore. Couldn't lift it over her head for a week. Otherwise she was just achy and lethargic for a day. I'd probably just have a sore arm for a day or so. But I wouldn't get sick even if I got the omicron variant so why bother? I rarely go out anywhere anyway.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

After all I've read, I feel pretty certain as a total layperson saying that. Once you get the shot, you run the risk of immediately getting all the side effects, going from a sore arm to being really sick. Then you have a period of about two weeks where you are basically immuno-compromised. No small number of people get Covid in this time. In the US this doesn't "count" against the vaccine because the vaccine hasn't "kicked in yet". Ain't that something?

Then it does seem to offer a short window of protection against severe disease only, not transmission or contracting the disease. BUT, once that wears off, what are you left with? We don't know. Even what we DO know would have made the shots not worth it for a lot of people. Myocarditis, menstrual problems, blood clots. Don't stop transmission, short window of protection.

All people like Tommy Tainant and candycorn have left at this point is to call names or play fast and loose with vaccine data, like going back to Jan 2021 to say how well they worked. Either they're complete idiots or they know, and are lying. No other choices.

Then it does seem to offer a short window of protection against severe disease only, not transmission or contracting the disease.

Like I said are we even sure about that

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Question Time showed that you can’t counter anti-vax myths with cold reason alone | Sonia Sodha

Changing minds is more complicated than simply exposing poor arguments

www.theguardian.com

The main British political discussion show invited in an audience of anti vaxxers to discuss their idiocy with a panel of experts. to limited success.

How do you react when someone politely but firmly tells you that you’re talking nonsense about something that’s important to you? Do you gracefully and immediately give way to their greater expertise? Or do you double down?

Most of us are in the latter camp. Voicing our beliefs tends to solidify them. We may like to think of ourselves as rational creatures, constantly assessing the world for new information that might change our minds, but this is not how our brains work. Explaining to someone that their belief is flat-out wrong is not a good way of getting them to drop it. And research shows that the process of “myth-busting” – setting out a common false statement, then explaining why it is wrong – backfires because it counterintuitively reinforces and helps spread the myths.

But it is impossible to counter emotion with facts and the exercise ,whils exposing the idiocy of the anti vaxxers, will probably not have convinced many. We could have told them cahead of the show. Five years of exposing trumps villiany has not dented his cults belief in him.

And focussing on the ridiculous "stop the steal" nonsense underlines this. Despite zero evidence there are still folk who think that the election was stolen. When it gets to the point that people do not need any evidence i n order to believe something touted by a proven liar then facts and science are not going to penetrate.

It leaves society pretty much at the mercy of uninformed people who think that a half hour rummaging aarund the net makes then PHDs in any subject under the sun.

These people breed, they vote and they bring up chilfren. We should be scared.

People who believe "Russia collusion" is real and that the vaccines will "stop the spread of covid" shouldn't be bitching about anyone else...lol

 

[SweetSue92]

I see it as more related to life experiences. There are intelligent people in the unvaxxed but they seem to have been damaged in some way. Abused as kids or bitter about something.
But you are correct in that stupid people are easier to control with dodgy data.

Tommy, what's "Dodgy" about data coming straight from hospitals? That I provided you, with links?

You're anti-science.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Tommy, what's "Dodgy" about data coming straight from hospitals? That I provided you, with links?

You're anti-science.

Alleged data Sue. I dont have time to check out your lunacy. But I will say that dodgy data from such a limited source doesnt prove anything.. UK Govt figures prove that the vax works and keeps us safer.

 

[SweetSue92]

Alleged data Sue. I dont have time to check out your lunacy. But I will say that dodgy data from such a limited source doesnt prove anything.. UK Govt figures prove that the vax works and keeps us safer.

It's all falling apart for you Tommy. All of it. Your last stand is the vaccines: "SAFE!! EFFECTIVE!! FREE!!"

Keep saying that Tommy. Maybe one day it will be true.

BTW, watch yourself for odd symptoms

 

[Tommy Tainant]

It's all falling apart for you Tommy. All of it. Your last stand is the vaccines: "SAFE!! EFFECTIVE!! FREE!!"

Keep saying that Tommy. Maybe one day it will be true.

BTW, watch yourself for odd symptoms

You eem obsessed with my health Sue. I am doing fine and so is my family. Unlike millions of poor folk the virus has killed.
Academics will study this mess in years to come. I think they will focus on the actions of the charlatans in spreading myths.
I suspect that they will follow a trail to Mosow for many of them.

 

[SweetSue92]

You eem obsessed with my health Sue. I am doing fine and so is my family. Unlike millions of poor folk the virus has killed.
Academics will study this mess in years to come. I think they will focus on the actions of the charlatans in spreading myths.
I suspect that they will follow a trail to Mosow for many of them.

Study this chart from a Michigan hospital system, Tommy. As of yesterday.

404 | Corewell Health

www.beaumont.org

 

[Grumblenuts]

Point being, in one section of Michigan anyway, you're still significantly better off getting vaccinated. Better yet getting the booster.

 

[miketx]

Its created quite a stinl over here SUe. People think that giving loons a platform is not what our national broadcaster should be doing. But the anti vaxxers cant complain their nuttiness has been ignored by the evil MSM.

Right disney.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Do you believe in any form of communism?

You need to form your question better.

^^^ That means yes ^^^

 

[miketx]

You need to form your question better. Its unclear what you want as it seems unrelated to the actual topic under discussion.

Lol, classic lie! He's 300 percent commie!

 

[miketx]

You eem obsessed with my health Sue. I am doing fine and so is my family. Unlike millions of poor folk the virus has killed.
Academics will study this mess in years to come. I think they will focus on the actions of the charlatans in spreading myths.
I suspect that they will follow a trail to Mosow for many of them.

Is it true you changed your name to Phil McKrevice?