Zone1 Cease-Fire in Ukraine?

[peacefan]

Russia can do that instantly by withdrawing from all occupied territory. Russia is solely responsible for prolonging the war.

that's not correct.
we are just as responsible for prolonging the war.

That's the minimum action required to begin negotiations. Once the Russian withdrawal is accomplished, negotiations can begin about reparations and war crimes prosecutions.

reparations and war crimes prosecutions??
you are one delusional unipolarist, ain't cha?

 

[peacefan]

I couldn't give a shit whether you don't like my vocabulary or not.

What's important is the topic, and I asked a question and you're making a total wet fart out of it. You missed the point completely and utterly, and now you're talking about swearing instead.

The Russia of today has existed since 1991. The Spanish had it longer than the current Russian regime's ever had it. But it still DOESN'T MATTER. The whole point is EMPATHY, which you seem to be ignoring.

actually it's you who is ignoring empathy (and common sense, mind you).

the Russian Empire was replaced with the USSR, and that in turn with the Russian Federation.
and you can't blame the moscovites for wanting their old sphere of influence back.
that's not to say we have to give them their entire old sphere of influence back, but that Sebastopol seaport, i'll argue over.

 

[frigidweirdo]

actually it's you who is ignoring empathy (and common sense, mind you).

the Russian Empire was replaced with the USSR, and that in turn with the Russian Federation.
and you can't blame the moscovites for wanting their old sphere of influence back.
that's not to say we have to give them their entire old sphere of influence back, but that Sebastopol seaport, i'll argue over.

Well, looks like this conversation is over.

 

[SavannahMann]

that's not correct.
we are just as responsible for prolonging the war.


reparations and war crimes prosecutions??
you are one delusional unipolarist, ain't cha?

The Geneva Conventions outline the minimum behavior expected in war. Violations of these agreements are considered war crimes. American Servicemen are serving time right now for violating these laws of war. We expect better of our troops and when they fail to meet those expectations we strive to hold them accountable.

There are reports of rapes by the troops. Forcible relocation of civilians out of their own nation. Torture and murder of prisoners. These actions are violations of the Laws of war.

If Russia wants to be a member of the international community they must adhere to the rules that they agreed to.

The Soviet Union signed the agreements and ratified them. The Russian Federation said they were the successor to the Soviet and all treaties were still valid.

 

[peacefan]

The Geneva Conventions outline the minimum behavior expected in war. Violations of these agreements are considered war crimes. American Servicemen are serving time right now for violating these laws of war. We expect better of our troops and when they fail to meet those expectations we strive to hold them accountable.

There are reports of rapes by the troops. Forcible relocation of civilians out of their own nation. Torture and murder of prisoners. These actions are violations of the Laws of war.

If Russia wants to be a member of the international community they must adhere to the rules that they agreed to.

The Soviet Union signed the agreements and ratified them. The Russian Federation said they were the successor to the Soviet and all treaties were still valid.

i still think all those treaties have to be re-ratified, to be honest.
the reason is that the Russians don't seem to be in the mood to respect them.

 

[peacefan]

but now that i think it through; i might be supporting the Moscovites a little bit too much with those last statements.

a full victory by Zelensky is something i can support (with another 20 year tour of duty most likely, but nevermind that).
the inclusion of the Black Sea and Ukraine by NATO and the EU as well.

so from now on, i'll treat the Russians (and Chinese, Iranians and North-Koreans) like i treated the Muslims in the War on Terror :
they got valid points in the discussions about morality, but they certainly don't have the winning points.

for instance, at the opening of the war in Ukraine, Russia hit the elderly of Ukraine with inaccurate clustermunitions. that's a warcrime for sure.
so is abducting all those Ukranian kids.
and slaughtering all those civilians in Ukraine over the course of the war.

 

[SavannahMann]

i still think all those treaties have to be re-ratified, to be honest.
the reason is that the Russians don't seem to be in the mood to respect them.

Putin hears that there is evidence of systemic violations, and announces that they are withdrawing from that one treaty.

They’re breaking the rules. And when they get caught decide that there are no rules.

I’ll tell you something. When I was a Soldier, it was explained to me that one of the reasons we adhere to those laws so faithfully is that it makes it easier for our enemies to surrender.

Desert Storm. One of the battalions rolled up on an Iraqi Battalion.The entire Battalion was sitting in formation with their hands up. The propaganda kept telling them we Americans would torture and kill them. One of the draftees in the unit was an American from Chicago visiting family when it kicked off. Since his Father was Iraqi, he was drafted and shoved in uniform.

He told them that Americans follow the rules. They would not do any of the things the propaganda claimed. That alone wouldn’t have sold it. But the people in that Battalion were draftees and knew that their superiors regularly lied to them.

That was a unit we didn’t have to kill. That was a unit we didn’t have to lose a single soldier to defeat. That was a victory based in our sense of honor and faithful dedication to the laws of war.

That took two things to work. First the tendency of Dictators to lie. Second. The Americans dedication to the Geneva Conventions.

Personally I’d find it hard to believe that the Russians would follow the Conventions. Thugs are always cowards and don’t have the courage to stand up for the rules. They are afraid to stand up and say no to their troops. They are afraid to be honorable.

Our ROE when we crosse the line was simple. If it was an enemy Tank. Kill it. If it was an enemy military truck. Kill it. If it was an enemy soldier with a weapon. Kill him. If it was an enemy unarmed. Do not kill him. If it was a civilian. Do not fire unless fired upon. White flags. Do not fire unless fired upon.

That is the laws of war simplified right there. After they surrendered we processed the prisoners, gave them food and water. Provided medical care for any injuries or wounds. Then we turned them over to the MP’s and assisted in searching the prisoners for hidden weapons. We took military documents and returned personal items. Pictures of family and other assorted items people carry in such times.

Caring for the Prisoners was one of the biggest headaches we had. We started turning them loose almost immediately. Sending them home in whatever trucks we could get running with documentation to show they were already captured and were headed home. In case they ran into other checkpoints. We didn’t question most of them. The enlisted and NCO’s wouldn’t know anything we cared about. Junior officers were a similar waste of time. Other than predictable propaganda they couldn’t tell us anything either.

When we went into Iraq again a generation later, many of the troops had heard about how we did things and were happy to surrender knowing they would get better treatment from us than the Iraqi leadership. We cared about them more than their own leaders did.

They knew we would fight. They knew we would kill. They knew we would win. And they knew we would not abuse prisoners.

Until the idiots at the CIA got it into their heads that “enhanced interrogation” was a way to get information and Abu Ghraib was a thing. It is interesting to note that the Troops following orders of the CIA all went to prison.

The CIA are civilians. They are not Military people with rank and a place in the Chain of Command. They can’t issue orders to soldiers. That’s why the guards went to prison. You can’t be ordered to violate the Geneva conventions. That is an illegal order. One you are honor bound to refuse to obey it. You are legally required to refuse that order.

Now here is the funny thing. At this point in my life. A long time since I was a Soldier. I still believe in those values. And I’m now looking for the fountain of middle age. And I still believe that those lessons were right.

 

[peacefan]

Putin hears that there is evidence of systemic violations, and announces that they are withdrawing from that one treaty.

They’re breaking the rules. And when they get caught decide that there are no rules.

I’ll tell you something. When I was a Soldier, it was explained to me that one of the reasons we adhere to those laws so faithfully is that it makes it easier for our enemies to surrender.

Desert Storm. One of the battalions rolled up on an Iraqi Battalion.The entire Battalion was sitting in formation with their hands up. The propaganda kept telling them we Americans would torture and kill them. One of the draftees in the unit was an American from Chicago visiting family when it kicked off. Since his Father was Iraqi, he was drafted and shoved in uniform.

He told them that Americans follow the rules. They would not do any of the things the propaganda claimed. That alone wouldn’t have sold it. But the people in that Battalion were draftees and knew that their superiors regularly lied to them.

That was a unit we didn’t have to kill. That was a unit we didn’t have to lose a single soldier to defeat. That was a victory based in our sense of honor and faithful dedication to the laws of war.

That took two things to work. First the tendency of Dictators to lie. Second. The Americans dedication to the Geneva Conventions.

Personally I’d find it hard to believe that the Russians would follow the Conventions. Thugs are always cowards and don’t have the courage to stand up for the rules. They are afraid to stand up and say no to their troops. They are afraid to be honorable.

Our ROE when we crosse the line was simple. If it was an enemy Tank. Kill it. If it was an enemy military truck. Kill it. If it was an enemy soldier with a weapon. Kill him. If it was an enemy unarmed. Do not kill him. If it was a civilian. Do not fire unless fired upon. White flags. Do not fire unless fired upon.

That is the laws of war simplified right there. After they surrendered we processed the prisoners, gave them food and water. Provided medical care for any injuries or wounds. Then we turned them over to the MP’s and assisted in searching the prisoners for hidden weapons. We took military documents and returned personal items. Pictures of family and other assorted items people carry in such times.

Caring for the Prisoners was one of the biggest headaches we had. We started turning them loose almost immediately. Sending them home in whatever trucks we could get running with documentation to show they were already captured and were headed home. In case they ran into other checkpoints. We didn’t question most of them. The enlisted and NCO’s wouldn’t know anything we cared about. Junior officers were a similar waste of time. Other than predictable propaganda they couldn’t tell us anything either.

When we went into Iraq again a generation later, many of the troops had heard about how we did things and were happy to surrender knowing they would get better treatment from us than the Iraqi leadership. We cared about them more than their own leaders did.

They knew we would fight. They knew we would kill. They knew we would win. And they knew we would not abuse prisoners.

Until the idiots at the CIA got it into their heads that “enhanced interrogation” was a way to get information and Abu Ghraib was a thing. It is interesting to note that the Troops following orders of the CIA all went to prison.

The CIA are civilians. They are not Military people with rank and a place in the Chain of Command. They can’t issue orders to soldiers. That’s why the guards went to prison. You can’t be ordered to violate the Geneva conventions. That is an illegal order. One you are honor bound to refuse to obey it. You are legally required to refuse that order.

Now here is the funny thing. At this point in my life. A long time since I was a Soldier. I still believe in those values. And I’m now looking for the fountain of middle age. And I still believe that those lessons were right.

enhanced interrogation.. does that mean that the US let go of the Geneva Convention for a while?

 

[luiza]

A post about a negotiated settlement is comical when the Nazi Midget has nothing to negotiate with , and his conqueror has no interest in talking to low life which has not even got a sane draft agenda to glance at .

 

[peacefan]

A post about a negotiated settlement is comical when the Nazi Midget has nothing to negotiate with , and his conqueror has no interest in talking to low life which has not even got a sane draft agenda to glance at .

you're not calling Zelesnky a lowlife Nazi midget, are you?!

 

[SavannahMann]

enhanced interrogation.. does that mean that the US let go of the Geneva Convention for a while?

The US for a while decided that the Terrorists were not covered by the Geneva Conventions. It ended, finally. And our position in the world diminished because of it.

It was a stupid policy. And while it did apply to the CIA, it did not apply to the Military as evidenced by the prosecutions of the guards at Abu Ghraib.

 

[badbob85037]

Would you like to see a cease-fire agreement in Ukraine right now, with negotiations to follow? I think >500,000 dead is enough.

Long before the Biden clan enriched itself on countries as Ukraine, Russia, China, and any other they have peddled their brand with corruption, blackmail, and fraud. There is enough proof to put the lot of them in a close order nude Conga line giving them all death by bonga bonga. Haven't both Ukraine and U.S. from top to bottom, both Repugs and Rats made enough money on this war? Someone needs to tell Biden 'you can't take it with you'.

As far as the war we peons only know what they want us to believe.

 

[Cassandro]

What if a major US naval Base was surrounded by Native American land, and the tribe that owned it threatened to cut off land access and become allied with China? Would the US be justified in taking any action to prevent this?

 

[peacefan]

Long before the Biden clan enriched itself on countries as Ukraine, Russia, China, and any other they have peddled their brand with corruption, blackmail, and fraud. There is enough proof to put the lot of them in a close order nude Conga line giving them all death by bonga bonga. Haven't both Ukraine and U.S. from top to bottom, both Repugs and Rats made enough money on this war? Someone needs to tell Biden 'you can't take it with you'.

As far as the war we peons only know what they want us to believe.

ah, but you can pass it to your heirs!

of course, his soul will burn in Hell for it, or spend time in God's lockup facilities (i hope).

 

[luiza]

You you're not calling Zelesnky a lowlife Nazi midget, are you?!

Exactly . No need to insult the handicapped and deformed .
But in the last few days this individuals cards have been even further devalued .
The huge planned Russian offensive could coincide with the start of the rainy season — next 3/4 weeks . With the UAF at bottom morale and no longer having a cohesive third army , matters have all but gone from the Midget’s power to influence .
The adorable Mr P might simply take his targeted four new regions before pausing for further thought.
By that time the Midget will have been removed in one or more ways . Arse firmly in ugly face , as we politely say .

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Scott Ritter is still of the opinion that Russia should not eliminate Zelensky. His repacement could be worse.

I would add to that, America's replacement of the Ukraine's leader would be much worse.

Who cares what that child molester thinks?

 

[Donald H]

Who cares what that child molester thinks?

That was invented to demonize him because he knows too much. and lots of people care.

But it doesn't really matter all that much anymore what Americans think.

Did you catch what Woodie Harrelson has said about America's current war?

 

[AZrailwhale]

i still think all those treaties have to be re-ratified, to be honest.
the reason is that the Russians don't seem to be in the mood to respect them.

The Russians have never respected a treaty or agreement that didn't benefit them.

 

[AZrailwhale]

enhanced interrogation.. does that mean that the US let go of the Geneva Convention for a while?

No, most if not all of the prisoners who suffered "enhanced interrogation" weren't legal combatants. Plus the techniques used didn't rise to the level of torture which is against the Conventions.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Zelensky needs to ask for terms, Ukraine is finished.