Zone1 Cease-Fire in Ukraine?

[SavannahMann]

i also read a report which put the number at around 90%.

90% of Ukrainians oppose territorial concessions to Russia

The majority of Ukrainian citizens oppose territorial concessions to Russia, even for the sake of ending the war. 90% of the country's population insists on the inadmissibility of compromises with the aggressor, as evidenced by the results of a sociological study by Ilko Kucheriv Democratic...

www.ukrainianworldcongress.org

of course, one could say that this is merely propaganda put forth by the western puppet leaders of Ukraine (Zelensky & co).

One must look at the whole picture to make such a judgement. The Ukrainians are not fond of the Russians. They suffered under the Soviets. They have no fond memories of that era. They have a living reminder of the era rotting away at Chernobyl. They have the pride of Ukraine in ashes with the AN-225.

They want freedom. And who can blame them? To argue that it is propaganda one must believe that the people want a return to a subject status under Russian control. And who wants outsiders deciding their own national policy? Who doesn’t chaff under that sort of thing?

 

[peacefan]

If it were your country, what would you do?

i'd give up Crimea and that conquered strip of land to the Russians.
this to show we can be reasonable and multipolar.

 

[peacefan]

One must look at the whole picture to make such a judgement. The Ukrainians are not fond of the Russians. They suffered under the Soviets. They have no fond memories of that era. They have a living reminder of the era rotting away at Chernobyl. They have the pride of Ukraine in ashes with the AN-225.

They want freedom. And who can blame them? To argue that it is propaganda one must believe that the people want a return to a subject status under Russian control. And who wants outsiders deciding their own national policy? Who doesn’t chaff under that sort of thing?

the Russian Federation isn't ruled like the USSR was.

 

[frigidweirdo]

i'd give up Crimea and that conquered strip of land to the Russians.
this to show we can be reasonable and multipolar.

So, let's say Mexico invades the US and takes Florida and Texas, you'd give them up in order to show you're reasonable?

 

[peacefan]

So, let's say Mexico invades the US and takes Florida and Texas, you'd give them up in order to show you're reasonable?

totally different scenario.
Mexico would be engaging in territorial aggression (and i'm not about to allow that), while Russia is engaging in territorial defense. that naval base (Sevastopol, Crimea) has been around for over 100 years. and that Black Sea that is Russia's backwater and only warm water sea, is linked to the Med in Turkey via a channel.

 

[frigidweirdo]

totally different scenario.
Mexico would be engaging in territorial aggression, while Russia is engaging in territorial defense. that naval base has been around for over 100 years.

Ever scenario is totally different. How can you put yourself into the shoes of a Ukrainian if you're unwilling to see a similar event for your own country?

No, Russia hasn't had the Crimea since 1953.

The Spanish had Florida, and they had Texas. Taking those back.... "territorial defense" if you want to use such bullshit vocabulary.

The Crimea was a part of the Russian Empire from 1783 to 1917. Then part of the USSR from 1917 to 1991, then part of the Ukraine.

It had never been a part of a Russia with a President in the whole of its history.....

 

[peacefan]

Ever scenario is totally different. How can you put yourself into the shoes of a Ukrainian if you're unwilling to see a similar event for your own country?

No, Russia hasn't had the Crimea since 1953.

The Spanish had Florida, and they had Texas. Taking those back.... "territorial defense" if you want to use such bullshit vocabulary.

The Crimea was a part of the Russian Empire from 1783 to 1917. Then part of the USSR from 1917 to 1991, then part of the Ukraine.

It had never been a part of a Russia with a President in the whole of its history.....

mind your language, mr... "bs vocabulary" is totally uncalled for.

the Russians (Moscovites to be exact) have held a much longer hold on Crimea than the Spanish ever did on Texas and Florida.

 

[peacefan]

i do want to add that as a civilian loudmouth (actually i'm keeping these posts confined to this forum and 3 major western political party webforms, US & NL),
western politicians and Zelensky & his friends are completely free to ignore my viewpoints.

but if we get overrun, at least i did what i could to prevent that.
and if we don't, well then i can say that i helped.
i do put significant time into this "hobby" of forum peaceactivism.

 

[SavannahMann]

i'd give up Crimea and that conquered strip of land to the Russians.
this to show we can be reasonable and multipolar.

First. Russia doesn’t need all of that to support their base. They already have a bridge with both road and rail access. The only reason they need the land bridge is support of other areas that are not theirs.

But the truth, and when talking about possible peace ideals, they must be based in truth. The truth is Russia wants and needs all of Ukraine as a brick in their wall of influence.

Russia wants a land bridge, but one that links Moldova, Belarus, and Kaliningrad. For the last one some NATO Countries will have to be cut off. But sadly that is a price some will be willing to pay.

 

[peacefan]

ofcourse, i could be in trouble with the CIA for trying to revert the 1991 Ukraine "deal".
let's just say i'm ready for you, and i believe that what i'm doing is the right thing to be doing and keep doing (within this quite-confined and specialized space of usmessageboard.com).

 

[peacefan]

First. Russia doesn’t need all of that to support their base. They already have a bridge with both road and rail access. The only reason they need the land bridge is support of other areas that are not theirs.

But the truth, and when talking about possible peace ideals, they must be based in truth. The truth is Russia wants and needs all of Ukraine as a brick in their wall of influence.

Russia wants a land bridge, but one that links Moldova, Belarus, and Kaliningrad. For the last one some NATO Countries will have to be cut off. But sadly that is a price some will be willing to pay.

without that strip of conquered land, the northern shore of the sea of azov (and thus that railroad to Sebastopol as well) would be under constant threat from EU and NATO influences.

 

[peacefan]

and eh, CIA : consider this as well please :
i could well be preventing ourselves from turning a 3:1 adverserial population (with them holding the numerical advantage!) into a hateful rage against us(!!!), by not allowing us to practice territorial greed.
the civilian, under the type of freedom of speech that i use, outranks the politician, who outranks the soldiers.
and last i checked, CIA, you're soldiers.

CIA TO PEACEFAN : down boy, you don't get to dictate terms to the leading political parties on foreign policy.
peacefan to CIA : i'm not a dog. i'm not a soldier. but i will keep up this peaceactivism hobby. i fear the day we dig our own graves. you should too.

CIA TO PEACEFAN : we got Executive Orders signed decades ago, backed by years of western propaganda as you would call it (from Hollywood and places like that), anti-communism stuff, that back our claim.
peacefan to CIA : i was unaware of that bit about signed executive orders. i'll shut up on the Ukraine and Taiwan topics until i know more then.

 

[SavannahMann]

without that strip of conquered land, the northern shore of the sea of azov (and thus that railroad to Sebastopol as well) would be under constant threat from EU and NATO influences.

NATO is a defensive alliance. It comes into play only if a Member is attacked. It isn’t NATO that Putin is afraid of. It is Western Success.

 

[SavannahMann]

and eh, CIA : consider this as well please :
i could well be preventing ourselves from turning a 3:1 adverserial population into a hateful rage against us, by not allowing us to practice territorial greed.
the civilian, under the type of freedom of speech that i use, outranks the politician, who outranks the soldiers.
and last i checked, CIA, you're soldiers.

CIA TO PEACEFAN : down boy, you don't get to dictate terms to the leading political parties on foreign policy.
peacefan to CIA : i'm not a dog. i'm not a soldier. but i will keep up this peaceactivism hobby. i fear the day we dig our own graves. you should too.

First the idea that the CIA is tracking you is laughable. Worst case is the NSA is watching to see where you get your instructions. And even then it is done by computer without any humans even noticing you.

So lighten up. The CIA just doesn’t have the manpower to worry about a minor puppet online. Sorry if that upset you or made your delusions of importance come crashing down.

Secondly. Peace at any cost is never a goal worthy of serious consideration.

 

[peacefan]

First the idea that the CIA is tracking you is laughable. Worst case is the NSA is watching to see where you get your instructions. And even then it is done by computer without any humans even noticing you.

So lighten up. The CIA just doesn’t have the manpower to worry about a minor puppet online. Sorry if that upset you or made your delusions of importance come crashing down.

Secondly. Peace at any cost is never a goal worthy of serious consideration.

please don't assume that i haven't got my ducks in a row, or that i haven't been of significant influence in NATO foreign policy issues[1] in government circles in the USA and The Netherlands.
i did just fill out the webform at whitehouse.gov/contact again with a link to one of my posts in this thread.

and i get my instructions first and foremost from my own sense of morality and common sense, and second from Angels, white-hat Spirits and even some grey-hat Spirits and Demons, as well as the major and minor Gods, via telepathy[2].
i also get instructions through the media. i tend to speak my mind but follow NATO policy shifts eventually.

[1a] i've helped get the Iran Nuclear Deal off the ground and keep it well fed with reason and assertiveness at the same time.
[1b] i've helped stop online terror recruiters and muslim fundamentalists from gaining footholds on forums just like this one, all over the world.
[1c] this has cost me dearly. i have no family of my own at 46, and have had to spend 18 of 22 years in psychiatry (which gave me epilepsy, suicidal tendencies, muscle cramps and PTSD) over sleep deprivation caused by runaway thoughts about wars and how to prevent and/or end them.

[2] Telepathy Manual by Rene AJM Veerman aka Gavan Peacefan Hoverswell - Google Drive

 

[peacefan]

and people, it seems very much that Zelensky has taken me up on the offer i made earlier on this forum; to take out the naval fleets at Sebastopol (to take away Putin's motivation to stay in Crimea or the recently conquered landroutes to it).
the latest news (courtesy of Fox News US TV i think) is that Zelensky wants to attack Russian military targets in all of Crimea with long range munitions and drones.

i wish him the best of luck in that mission, including getting the hardware in the US this week.
NOW is the time to end the war in Ukraine. NOT next year.

 

[peacefan]

 

[mamooth]

NOW is the time to end the war in Ukraine. NOT next year.

Russia can do that instantly by withdrawing from all occupied territory. Russia is solely responsible for prolonging the war.

That's the minimum action required to begin negotiations. Once the Russian withdrawal is accomplished, negotiations can begin about reparations and war crimes prosecutions.

 

[Ringo]

 

[frigidweirdo]

mind your language, mr... "bs vocabulary" is totally uncalled for.

the Russians (Moscovites to be exact) have held a much longer hold on Crimea than the Spanish ever did on Texas and Florida.

I couldn't give a shit whether you don't like my vocabulary or not.

What's important is the topic, and I asked a question and you're making a total wet fart out of it. You missed the point completely and utterly, and now you're talking about swearing instead.

The Russia of today has existed since 1991. The Spanish had it longer than the current Russian regime's ever had it. But it still DOESN'T MATTER. The whole point is EMPATHY, which you seem to be ignoring.