Causalty in the Healthcare System

[GHook93]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

 

[toomuchtime_]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Your example says nothing about the value of a public option. If anything in the current bills would help him, it would be the subsidies, and they will not be available before 2015. On the other hand, right now he can receive comprehensive medical and dental care at a federally funded clinic for free or on a sliding scale basis.

He can find such a clinic here:

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

 

[Oddball]

The OP points out exactly what's wrong with the delivery of medical care...Though not in the way he thought it was.

The primary problem is the attitude of entitlement to have the third party pick up the expenses for services rendered.

 

[GHook93]

The OP points out exactly what's wrong with the delivery of medical care...Though not in the way he thought it was.

The primary problem is the attitude of entitlement to have the third party pick up the expenses for services rendered.

I am not big on entitlements, rather I am big on people getting healthcare insurance when they are at their lowest point! Sick and out of work, unemployed with sick dependants, disabled or incapacitated!

 

[Oddball]

Right.

Not big on entitlements, BUT........

 

[auditor0007]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Quit crying about this lazy sleaze bag. He should have been smart enough to not get sick in the first place. Maybe if he wasn't such a terrible husband, his wife wouldn't have divorced him and he'd still have insurance. Either way, it's his own fault. No sympathy here.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Would you care to tell us why he doesn't qualify for the "public option" we already have, namely Medicaid? And then perhaps you can tell us why the entire rest of the nation should be fucked over because his individual personal life happens to suck.

I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic to the fact that his life sucks. I am. However, someone once said - and I agree - that law made on extreme cases is always bad law.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The OP points out exactly what's wrong with the delivery of medical care...Though not in the way he thought it was.

The primary problem is the attitude of entitlement to have the third party pick up the expenses for services rendered.

I am not big on entitlements, rather I am big on people getting healthcare insurance when they are at their lowest point! Sick and out of work, unemployed with sick dependants, disabled or incapacitated!

Yes, and right now, we're just tossing such people into the gutter to die and be cleared away by the street sweepers. Is that what you believe?

 

[GHook93]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Quit crying about this lazy sleaze bag. He should have been smart enough to not get sick in the first place. Maybe if he wasn't such a terrible husband, his wife wouldn't have divorced him and he'd still have insurance. Either way, it's his own fault. No sympathy here.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Funny, on a sidenote - part of the reason she kicked his butt out is because he has MS. Exact words from her in the past, "When we got married I never signed up for this!" Her response to: (1) going back to work to get healthcare, (2) accommodations around the house, (3) his inability to do many things and (4) just being the wife of someone with MS!

Its a horrible disease that I won't wish on my worse enemy!

 

[GHook93]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Would you care to tell us why he doesn't qualify for the "public option" we already have, namely Medicaid? And then perhaps you can tell us why the entire rest of the nation should be fucked over because his individual personal life happens to suck.

I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic to the fact that his life sucks. I am. However, someone once said - and I agree - that law made on extreme cases is always bad law.

I'm not sure the whole reason why he doesn't qualify for medicaid, medicare and SS disability. What I do know is he applied and was denied. They stated that he educated (college degree) and is only partially disabled and able to many high paying jobs, such as inside sales!

 

[strollingbones]

ms is horrid disease robbing one daily and slowly of abllites...he needs to try to get a lawyer for the disablity claim...most dont realize he needs to be on the abc shots of ms...and they hit you like a truck...the ability to get out of bed is lost...the disease saps one of their strength. the shots alone run about 800 dollars or more...then the mri's to see how the disease is advancing...the list goes on and on

 

[toomuchtime_]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Would you care to tell us why he doesn't qualify for the "public option" we already have, namely Medicaid? And then perhaps you can tell us why the entire rest of the nation should be fucked over because his individual personal life happens to suck.

I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic to the fact that his life sucks. I am. However, someone once said - and I agree - that law made on extreme cases is always bad law.

Indeed, GHook93's brother-in-law appears to have plenty of problems in his life, but access to affordable health care is not one of them. He could be receiving the health care he needs at a federally funded clinic right now for free or on a sliding scale basis, one of our already existing public options.

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

 

[GHook93]

ms is horrid disease robbing one daily and slowly of abllites...he needs to try to get a lawyer for the disablity claim...most dont realize he needs to be on the abc shots of ms...and they hit you like a truck...the ability to get out of bed is lost...the disease saps one of their strength. the shots alone run about 800 dollars or more...then the mri's to see how the disease is advancing...the list goes on and on

WE'RE JEWISH, we have a family of lawyers for everything and the challenges is in the process! Yep he is on crazy amount of drugs at the moment.

 

[American Horse]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE ...
<SNIP>

... All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Illinois has a state pool for the uninsurable. HERE is a link to their site and he can look up a rate for a person his age/location within the state, and he can pick his own deductible. Here in your neighboring state of Indiana the rates are very reasonable, so without checking I expect that they are comparable there. None of the conditions you've mentioned bear on his getting into the state plan. My wife has been on the Indiana plan since 2002, with an orphan disease which is uninsurable (and of course pre-existing), except through the state pool. If he hasn't already checked this out he's making a huge mistake. Good luck to him.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sucks to be your brother in law.

Why he should become a burden on the rest of us is beyond me. And what any of it has to do with healthcare reform is also beyond me. If you think Obama's proposals would help him one bit then you are sorely mistaken.

 

[xotoxi]

Some might say that if he can't pay for his medical care himself, then that's just too bad. He can either get charity...or die.

However, I wholly disagree with this.

 

[The Rabbi]

So what is your solution?
If you say gov't at some level needs to provide him, how is that not charity just with a different donor? The only difference is that with traditional charity donors choose to give, with the gov't donors are forced to give.

 

[xotoxi]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Quit crying about this lazy sleaze bag. He should have been smart enough to not get sick in the first place. Maybe if he wasn't such a terrible husband, his wife wouldn't have divorced him and he'd still have insurance. Either way, it's his own fault. No sympathy here.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Funny, on a sidenote - part of the reason she kicked his butt out is because he has MS. Exact words from her in the past, "When we got married I never signed up for this!" Her response to: (1) going back to work to get healthcare, (2) accommodations around the house, (3) his inability to do many things and (4) just being the wife of someone with MS!

Its a horrible disease that I won't wish on my worse enemy!

That's wrong!

Too bad the court hadn't found in his favor and forced her to maintain full medical coverage for him as part of the divorce settlement.

 

[xotoxi]

Sucks to be your brother in law.

Why he should become a burden on the rest of us is beyond me. And what any of it has to do with healthcare reform is also beyond me. If you think Obama's proposals would help him one bit then you are sorely mistaken.

TRANSLATION: It's too bad that he is going to die, but I'll be damned to pay a penny of my own money to keep his sorry ass alive. Fuck him!

 

[xotoxi]

So what is your solution?
If you say gov't at some level needs to provide him, how is that not charity just with a different donor? The only difference is that with traditional charity donors choose to give, with the gov't donors are forced to give.

Yep. As I see it, if someone is not force to give him care, then either he or someone else will not receive care.

I can envision charities that will only donate to educated jews...no need to help the inner city uneducated blacks.

Or maybe vise versa.