Catholics are Christians?

[Meriweather]

I would have to say that isn't quite right......Jesus came to tell the Jews they had misunderstood the purpose of the law and that he had come to fulfill the law as promised by the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah.......those that accepted this teaching became known as Christians, those that rejected it kept the name Jews.......

Yes, that's an apt description as well.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, Protestants weren't trying to reform the Catholic Church.

lol.....they just decided to call it the Reformation for kicks.........

Martin Luther initially did want to reform and improve the Catholic Church, but it took very little time for his followers and adherents to abandon that idea, break with the Roman Catholic Church, and move on to reforming Christianity itself, and the practice thereof.

History is never as simple and uncomplicated as looking at the names and mission statements.

 

[Mudda]

Catholics are the original Christians. Meaning that Jesus hated gays and wanted women to take a back seat to men in life.

 

[Abishai100]

The Baffling Veil

Yes, many Protestants feel that Catholics are too outwardly-expressive of Christian dogma, even overly-ornamental.

Catholics sometimes argue that Protestants are not open-minded enough for vital religious debate.

Neither would necessarily object to buying their child a suit-coat fitted with handsome gold-colored buttons for a birthday party, but considerations about presentation nevertheless seem to create inter-faith intrigue.

I myself follow the ideas of Catholicism more than Protestantism.




THX 1138

 

[kjw47]

Catholics practice the original Christian faith.

Having read the bible a few times, I have to disagree with your statement. From what I can see, they cant even follow the milk right let alone the meat of Gods written word.
For Example--Gods word is clear--CALL NO MAN FATHER( in a spiritual sense such as a teacher) yet they call their teachers-Father-- They have had 1750 years to read that sentence in the bible yet they still have 0 clue.

 

[Campbell]

I notice and hear a lot of comments form protestants especially born again types that Catholics aren't Christians. Can someone please explain

Actually.....what difference does it make? All ancient god worship is horse shit and there were a dozen characters with credentials like Jesus which predated him by a thousand years. Why is it that modern folks trust a 2000 year old fairy tale written by people who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat?

 

[Meriweather]

Having read the bible a few times, I have to disagree with your statement. From what I can see, they cant even follow the milk right let alone the meat of Gods written word.
For Example--Gods word is clear--CALL NO MAN FATHER( in a spiritual sense such as a teacher) yet they call their teachers-Father-- They have had 1750 years to read that sentence in the bible yet they still have 0 clue.

The history and etymology behind "Call no man Father," needs to be taken into consideration. At the time of Christ, the Aramaic term for Father (Abba) was given to those who initiated a particular and often contradictory interpretation of the Jewish faith. For this reason, some Jewish teachers aspired to be called Rabbi or Abba. It differentiated them and what they taught from others.

But Jesus said, "You have only one teacher, one Father." In other words, follow one teacher, one teaching--don't try to vary what Christ taught. If the early Church thought Jesus meant anything else, then it is doubtful that Christian children would be calling their mother's husband their father, and also doubtful that the Apostles would reference people in their community as children. They considered themselves the spiritual fathers of the community. They did not consider themselves the type of "Father" who initiated a separate interpretation than what was taught be Christ.

What is interesting is that people who object to Catholics calling a priest of Christ a spiritual father--which is NOT a Father who initiated his own interpretation of the faith--are following people who DID initiate another interpretation of the faith. Christ's words, properly interpreted, are saying something to the effect of, You should not address Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Zwingli, Knox, Swedenborg (people who initiated a different interpretation of the Christian faith) as Father. And, Catholics faithfully avoid doing so.

 

[guno]

Jesus Christ was a Jew who taught a doctrine that was not Jewish.

I would have to say that isn't quite right......Jesus came to tell the Jews they had misunderstood the purpose of the law and that he had come to fulfill the law as promised by the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah.......those that accepted this teaching became known as Christians, those that rejected it kept the name Jews.......

The reason that the virgin birth concept was added to Christianity was because the first Christians were very unsuccessful at converting Jews. Most Jews knew they had something better, so they would not leave Judaism for Christianity. Remember: at the beginning it was nothing more than a very small messianic movement within Judaism, and after their "messiah" died, it was rather hard to convert Jews to their movement.

So they began to reach out to the pagans, the non-Jews. But those pagans attracted to Judaism had already joined Judaism, and the new ones would not be very likely to join a tiny fringe group that had lost all real meaning since their false messiah-leader had died. Anyone interested in Judaism would more likely be interested in mainstream Judaism.

So the Christians had to do something different. They had to develop appeal. So, they began to assume beliefs that pagan people found attractive. That was how they came up with the concepts of the trinity, transubstantiation, the need to "save" everyone through the resurrection of a messiah, virgin birth, and all the other wacky ideas of Christianity. All these were lifted straight from other religions, some of which preceded Christianity by 700 years! Pagans just lapped up things like demigods, gods having intercourse with humans, virgins giving birth. Such claims meant something to pagans, and they were already familiar with such beliefs from their own cultures. So leaving a pagan religion to join Christianity was not much of a stretch, especially after Paul declared that the pagans did not need to keep the Commandments of the Torah.

Virgin birth was a popular pagan myth, prevalent in numerous religions of the time. The particular strain that we find in Christianity was probably taken directly from the Greek myth of the divine birth of Perseus from the virgin Danae. It never had any association with Judaism. Furthermore, Attis, a popular Roman and Syrian god around the time Christianity began, was also said to have been born of a virgin. Long before that, Krishna, the Hindu god, dating back to nine centuries before Christianity, was said to be god incarnate born of a virgin, as was Gautama Buddha. So there was rather widespread precedent for Christian beliefs, but none of it came from Judaism.

Your average Jew with any kind of Jewish upbringing is disgusted by these ideas. This was true back then, just as much as it is true today. The virgin birth seems to us rather strange.

and the dumb pagans , todays goyim didn't know about torah
The Supposed Virgin Birth

 

[PostmodernProph]

The reason that the virgin birth concept was added to Christianity was because the first Christians were very unsuccessful at converting Jews.

actually the idea of virgin birth goes back approximately nine months before Jesus' birth........

 

[PostmodernProph]

Long before that, Krishna, the Hindu god, dating back to nine centuries before Christianity

you keep repeating this stupid crap and I keep correcting you, but you never respond......Krishna was not the child of a virgin.....He was born to Devaki and her husband, Vasudeva.........you are neglecting to mention his seven older brothers......
Krishna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

your other claims of virgin births in earlier religions are equally false......

 

[Meriweather]

The reason that the virgin birth concept was added to Christianity was because the first Christians were very unsuccessful at converting Jews. Most Jews knew they had something better, so they would not leave Judaism for Christianity. Remember: at the beginning it was nothing more than a very small messianic movement within Judaism, and after their "messiah" died, it was rather hard to convert Jews to their movement.

So they began to reach out to the pagans, the non-Jews. But those pagans attracted to Judaism had already joined Judaism, and the new ones would not be very likely to join a tiny fringe group that had lost all real meaning since their false messiah-leader had died. Anyone interested in Judaism would more likely be interested in mainstream Judaism.

So the Christians had to do something different. They had to develop appeal. So, they began to assume beliefs that pagan people found attractive. That was how they came up with the concepts of the trinity, transubstantiation, the need to "save" everyone through the resurrection of a messiah, virgin birth, and all the other wacky ideas of Christianity. All these were lifted straight from other religions, some of which preceded Christianity by 700 years! Pagans just lapped up things like demigods, gods having intercourse with humans, virgins giving birth. Such claims meant something to pagans, and they were already familiar with such beliefs from their own cultures. So leaving a pagan religion to join Christianity was not much of a stretch, especially after Paul declared that the pagans did not need to keep the Commandments of the Torah.

Virgin birth was a popular pagan myth, prevalent in numerous religions of the time. The particular strain that we find in Christianity was probably taken directly from the Greek myth of the divine birth of Perseus from the virgin Danae. It never had any association with Judaism. Furthermore, Attis, a popular Roman and Syrian god around the time Christianity began, was also said to have been born of a virgin. Long before that, Krishna, the Hindu god, dating back to nine centuries before Christianity, was said to be god incarnate born of a virgin, as was Gautama Buddha. So there was rather widespread precedent for Christian beliefs, but none of it came from Judaism.

Your average Jew with any kind of Jewish upbringing is disgusted by these ideas. This was true back then, just as much as it is true today. The virgin birth seems to us rather strange.

and the dumb pagans , todays goyim didn't know about torah

Yeah....no. Christianity has its roots in Judaism and borrowed nothing from the Greeks and Romans. This is not to say that the average Jew with any kind of Jewish upbringing isn't disgusted by Christianity. Just saying that Christianity didn't borrow from Greeks and Romans.

The reason for the split between the Christian sect of Judaism is that some Jews felt that a complete conversion to Judaism must precede becoming Christian. The Apostles decided not so.

 

[Campbell]

Catholics are the original Christians. Meaning that Jesus hated gays and wanted women to take a back seat to men in life.

The men who wrote about ancient gods got the good deals and witches, gays, women, children, slaves, nonbelievers etc. got whatever they could muster:

1 Timothy 2:
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.


1 Corinthians 14:
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1 Corinthians 11:
15 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Ephesians 5
22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Ephesians 5:
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Leviticus 25:
43You shall not rule over him with severity, but are to revere your God. 44As for your male and female slaves whom you may have-- you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. 45Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession.

Leviticus 18:
22You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:
13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death


For more than a thousand years the church required infant baptism. When ordinary folks began to doubt that kind of requirement and their attendance/donations began to falter the church made it optional. The scripture is still there but is never mentioned in that way.

For many thousands of years the church conducted witch hunts and tortured and put to death a conservative estimate of 100,000 innocent young women because they had been accused of witchcraft. When the general population caught on to the fact that there is no such thing as a witch the church backed away and shut up. The scripture is still there.

For thousands of years the church supported slavery, often accommodated it. When ordinary folks realized slavery is a practice for which there is no justification...guess what? The church backed away and never mentions the numerous scriptures in the bible which lend support to the practice.

Now the thing is hell itself. After millions of preachers preaching hundreds of millions of hell fire and brimstone sermons and the very concept of eternal torture and misery for non believing individuals making mistakes while living their lives has become extremely distasteful to the common man they are adamant in their insistence that it's all been errors in translation and are now preaching that hell is merely the eternal separation of man from god. All the scripture is still there but once again they have changed their position.

The church owns more real property in this world than any other entity except the governments. The number of churches in this country could be sold and the poor could be fed but don't hold your breath. Christ never said a word about a church and now every town is loaded with them and each one has stained glass, mahogany and oak pews, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, towers and spires on top.
The Cons need an appropriate place to be sure they won't have to get an honest job and actually work for a living.
The Vatican City has a building which covers blocks and is loaded with rare treasures and art works which conservatively are worth hundreds of billions of dollars while nearly a billion, mostly children, suffer from malnutrition and starve to death. The church lost it's way:

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Matthew 19:
23And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?

 

[turzovka]

The Idea of a Christian has a multi- meaning. You will find that there are no Catholics in The Scriptures and no Catholic faith or teachings in the Scriptures. ( The Term or IDEA of a Catholic or a Catholic Saint, Pope Catholic Priest, Nun, A Catholic Mary, A Catholic Church and MOST Catholic Traditions are Never found in Scriptures.

It is the Roman Catholic Church and Community that has Alienated and Denied Non Catholics as Saints.
It is the Roman Catholic Church and Community that has Alienated and Accused Non Catholic Christians as being NOT CHRISTIANS / NOT SAVED / DAMNED / DOOMED and GOING TO HELL... !

REMEMBER - That The Great Pope Gregory XVI - Declares that "MISGUIDED PEOPLE attempt TO PERSUADE themselves and others ,THAT MEN ARE NOT SAVED ONLY IN THE CATHOLIC RELIGION, but that even heretics may attain eternal life.'
The Summo Iugiter (On Mixed Marriages), Encyclical promulgated on May 27, 1832, #2

And .... the Great Pope Eugenius IV - Declares that " All OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, Jews or heretics CANNOT SHARE IN ETERNAL life and will GO INTO THE EVERLASTING FIRE, which was prepared for the devil and his angels, UNLESS THEY ARE JOINED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH .
and The Bull of Union with the Copts', Council of Florence, Session 11, on February 4, 1442.

There are so many, many more Hurtful Statements of Popes who make Demands that one Must be a Romantic Catholic in order to be saved and to serve the SAME God.

Such as - 'Heretics (those who are NOT MEMBERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH or who DO NOT HOLD TO CATHOLIC DOCTRINE) - Worship a God WHO IS A LIAR, and a CHRIST WHO IS A LIAR.'
This is the message of the Great Catholic Father - St. Augustine, (quoted in 'Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca', by Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 42:207).

There are Hundreds of Statements made by Popes, Priests and Individual Catholics - These Statements have eXcluded and Denied and Banned - ALL - Non Catholic Christians as being CHRISTIANS or Obtaining Salvation and Eternal Life / heaven.

After 1700 Years of Romantic Catholic eXistance- Note - That there has never been a single Non Catholic Saint. Catholics Do not Allow Non Catholics to be Saints and they are not Allowed in heaven.

With All of this ongoing for the last 1700 years of Catholic Church eXistance plus the fact that there are no idols or Images of Catholic Saints in the Scriptures, no Purgatory in the Bible, No praying to the dead, With the bible COMMANDING ..* Do not commune with the dead.

There is No, Catholic Eucharist. You will Notice that - Not a single APOSTLE or Disciple....EVER ONCE....taught the Catholic Teaching of Eucharist.

And Jesus Declared that His Physical Flesh was not Profitable and not the SUBJECT of the Statement. But His Word was the Nourishment and Life.

There is no No, Indulgences and SELLING salvation for MONEY, Not a single scripture about eternal Virginity Of Mary. There is no Prophecy or Future Role for the Catholic Church in the Revelations of the Future in Scriptures. No one is praying to Mary or anyone But Jesus ALONE. SOLA Christ. There is no declaration of Mary as Mediator / CO~ Redeemer / Co Mediatrix with an intercessory role - There is No giving Mary the title OF HEAVENLY MOTHER / QUEEN OF HEAVEN .... Not a single claim that Mary was sinless, The Rosary is not mentioned on a single page of the Bible

There is No MANDATORY Celibacy for any church Elders - With the BIBLE commanding Elders and BISHOPS are to be married. THERE IS no Prophecy or Future Role FOR catholic teaching or for the Catholic Church.
In The Bible.

Non Catholic Christians are exactly Where Satan and God have put them. They are eXcluded and demonized by the Catholic Church and accused of being Evil and never obtain Salvation or Heaven or Sainthood.

Non Catholic Christians Are Always are Trusting in Gods word and deny the Man Made fables and inventions of the deceivers in Rome and the Vatican.

REMEMBER. Catholics Do not have any Non Catholic Saints. After 1700 years. *( one Thousand Seven Hundred Years } not a single Christian has made it to Sainthood by Roman Catholics.... This is Hatred and Evil.

Catholics Are perverted and they Lie. - Pretending to be Your Christian Friend in God. But their Goal is to destroy Your faith in Gods Word and to make mockery of Your Faith in a Book and Faith in biblical Characters and a God - that they Literally Hate and despise.

You and your “Jack Chick” type pals suffer from what the Magisterium might refer to as “invincible ignorance.” But do keep on preaching because God must have specially ordained you to judge a billion Catholic Christians as heretics and lost.

https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/outside_the_church.htm

The doctrine that "Outside the Church there is no salvation" is one that is constantly misinterpreted by those who won't submit to the Magisterium of the Church. Faith does not depend upon our ability to reason to the truth but on our humility before the Truth presented to us by those to whom Christ entrusted that task. This is why the First Vatican Council taught that it is the task of the Magisterium ALONE to determine and expound the meaning of the Tradition - including "outside the Church no salvation."

Concerning this doctrine the Pope of Vatican I, Pius IX, spoke on two different occasions. In an allocution (address to an audience) on December 9th, 1854 he said:

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?​

Again, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863 addressed to the Italian bishops, he said:

It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.​

These statements are consistent with the understanding of the Church contained in the documents of Vatican II, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as explaining why the rigorist position of Fr. Feeney (that all must be actual members of the Catholic Church to be saved) has been condemned by the Magisterium. (Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL)

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

From Vatican II Council (1965) -- 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

Acts 10:34-35 Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”

Romans 2:14-15 “For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them”

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Just as no man can be saved except through Christ, no man can be saved except through the Catholic Church. Meaning --- Jesus is the judge of all mankind. It does not mean you have to be a Christian to be saved. Meaning --- the teachings of the Catholic Church, the One Church established by Jesus Christ were given “The Keys of the Kingdom.” “Whatsoever you hold bound on earth shall be held bound in heaven!” You do not have to be a Catholic to be saved, but Jesus judges every soul in light of His Catholic teachings, which emphasizes charity above all and over and above faith itself. So just as Pope Francis says, even an atheist can be saved.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I notice and hear a lot of comments form protestants especially born again types that Catholics aren't Christians. Can someone please explain

Actually.....what difference does it make? All ancient god worship is horse shit and there were a dozen characters with credentials like Jesus which predated him by a thousand years. Why is it that modern folks trust a 2000 year old fairy tale written by people who believed in witches and thought the earth was flat?

Actually, if you find the topic irrelevant and uninteresting, why the **** did you come to the thread? Was there something about the conversation that just screamed, "Please come tell us how stupid you think our beliefs and our conversation are, because we DESPERATELY care about your ******* opinion, Total Stranger!"?

Honestly, what the hell is it that makes atheists so arrogant that they simply can't let a conversation about religion pass by without shoehorning in their evangelistic message of, "You're so stupid! Stop this conversation and be just like MEEEE!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

Catholics are the original Christians. Meaning that Jesus hated gays and wanted women to take a back seat to men in life.

The men who wrote about ancient gods got the good deals and witches, gays, women, children, slaves, nonbelievers etc. got whatever they could muster:

1 Timothy 2:
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.


1 Corinthians 14:
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1 Corinthians 11:
15 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Ephesians 5
22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Ephesians 5:
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Leviticus 25:
43You shall not rule over him with severity, but are to revere your God. 44As for your male and female slaves whom you may have-- you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. 45Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession.

Leviticus 18:
22You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:
13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death


For more than a thousand years the church required infant baptism. When ordinary folks began to doubt that kind of requirement and their attendance/donations began to falter the church made it optional. The scripture is still there but is never mentioned in that way.

For many thousands of years the church conducted witch hunts and tortured and put to death a conservative estimate of 100,000 innocent young women because they had been accused of witchcraft. When the general population caught on to the fact that there is no such thing as a witch the church backed away and shut up. The scripture is still there.

For thousands of years the church supported slavery, often accommodated it. When ordinary folks realized slavery is a practice for which there is no justification...guess what? The church backed away and never mentions the numerous scriptures in the bible which lend support to the practice.

Now the thing is hell itself. After millions of preachers preaching hundreds of millions of hell fire and brimstone sermons and the very concept of eternal torture and misery for non believing individuals making mistakes while living their lives has become extremely distasteful to the common man they are adamant in their insistence that it's all been errors in translation and are now preaching that hell is merely the eternal separation of man from god. All the scripture is still there but once again they have changed their position.

The church owns more real property in this world than any other entity except the governments. The number of churches in this country could be sold and the poor could be fed but don't hold your breath. Christ never said a word about a church and now every town is loaded with them and each one has stained glass, mahogany and oak pews, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, towers and spires on top.
The Cons need an appropriate place to be sure they won't have to get an honest job and actually work for a living.
The Vatican City has a building which covers blocks and is loaded with rare treasures and art works which conservatively are worth hundreds of billions of dollars while nearly a billion, mostly children, suffer from malnutrition and starve to death. The church lost it's way:

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Matthew 19:
23And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?

I'm still stuck on the whole "Who the **** asked for your opinion and approval?" question. Also the "what the bloody hell does this have to do with the topic?" question.

For the life of me, I just can't see how the answer to "Are Catholics Christians?" could be "NO ONE should be Christian! Stop believing in God IMMEDIATELY!"

 

[kjw47]

Having read the bible a few times, I have to disagree with your statement. From what I can see, they cant even follow the milk right let alone the meat of Gods written word.
For Example--Gods word is clear--CALL NO MAN FATHER( in a spiritual sense such as a teacher) yet they call their teachers-Father-- They have had 1750 years to read that sentence in the bible yet they still have 0 clue.

The history and etymology behind "Call no man Father," needs to be taken into consideration. At the time of Christ, the Aramaic term for Father (Abba) was given to those who initiated a particular and often contradictory interpretation of the Jewish faith. For this reason, some Jewish teachers aspired to be called Rabbi or Abba. It differentiated them and what they taught from others.

But Jesus said, "You have only one teacher, one Father." In other words, follow one teacher, one teaching--don't try to vary what Christ taught. If the early Church thought Jesus meant anything else, then it is doubtful that Christian children would be calling their mother's husband their father, and also doubtful that the Apostles would reference people in their community as children. They considered themselves the spiritual fathers of the community. They did not consider themselves the type of "Father" who initiated a separate interpretation than what was taught be Christ.

What is interesting is that people who object to Catholics calling a priest of Christ a spiritual father--which is NOT a Father who initiated his own interpretation of the faith--are following people who DID initiate another interpretation of the faith. Christ's words, properly interpreted, are saying something to the effect of, You should not address Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Zwingli, Knox, Swedenborg (people who initiated a different interpretation of the Christian faith) as Father. And, Catholics faithfully avoid doing so.

The protestants ran from Catholicism because teaching something different than what Jesus taught is what they do--the councils provided many false teachings.
In the ot--it clearly condemns the use of statues and icons( little metal cross)--the protestants never corrected the errors of Catholicism. all the original writings were gone by the time prrotestants translated so the errors carried over into every one of them--today about 33,000= a house divided will not stand-Mark 3:24-26) Jesus did not start Catholicism. They are far removed from him and his way.

 

[Meriweather]

The protestants ran from Catholicism because teaching something different than what Jesus taught is what they do--the councils provided many false teachings.
In the ot--it clearly condemns the use of statues and icons( little metal cross)--the protestants never corrected the errors of Catholicism. all the original writings were gone by the time prrotestants translated so the errors carried over into every one of them--today about 33,000= a house divided will not stand-Mark 3:24-26) Jesus did not start Catholicism. They are far removed from him and his way.

I am sorry, but this is wrong. First of all, did not God order that Cherubim be carved on the the Ark of the Covenant? Second, didn't Paul state that things like dietary law, circumcision, tithing, and anything that did not include moral law was now null and void with the New Testament?

Second, check with scholars, and they will confirm that the the interpretation of the Bible that most strayed from the originals, and contains the most errors is a favorite of Protestants--The King James version. Further, Protestants removed some books that were in use in Jesus time and the early days of the Church.

Third, the Protestant Reformation was a product or the Enlightenment political movement, where the common man wished to rule himself, not be told what to do by the State or the Church there forefathers had followed. It had so little to do with reforming anything, because as we see throughout Church history, the Church, beginning with the Apostle Judas, has had to constantly reform itself. After Judas, we see Paul and the other Apostles warning people to beware of those who tried to change what Christ taught. Christ prayed that the Church (his followers) would remain one in the same way he and the Father are One.

It is interesting an interesting side note that of those who switch from being Protestant to Catholic are the most informed Protestants; those who switch from Catholicism to a Protestant denomination are those who are least informed about the Church and its history. Something to think about.

 

[kjw47]

The protestants ran from Catholicism because teaching something different than what Jesus taught is what they do--the councils provided many false teachings.
In the ot--it clearly condemns the use of statues and icons( little metal cross)--the protestants never corrected the errors of Catholicism. all the original writings were gone by the time prrotestants translated so the errors carried over into every one of them--today about 33,000= a house divided will not stand-Mark 3:24-26) Jesus did not start Catholicism. They are far removed from him and his way.

I am sorry, but this is wrong. First of all, did not God order that Cherubim be carved on the the Ark of the Covenant? Second, didn't Paul state that things like dietary law, circumcision, tithing, and anything that did not include moral law was now null and void with the New Testament?

Second, check with scholars, and they will confirm that the the interpretation of the Bible that most strayed from the originals, and contains the most errors is a favorite of Protestants--The King James version. Further, Protestants removed some books that were in use in Jesus time and the early days of the Church.

Third, the Protestant Reformation was a product or the Enlightenment political movement, where the common man wished to rule himself, not be told what to do by the State or the Church there forefathers had followed. It had so little to do with reforming anything, because as we see throughout Church history, the Church, beginning with the Apostle Judas, has had to constantly reform itself. After Judas, we see Paul and the other Apostles warning people to beware of those who tried to change what Christ taught. Christ prayed that the Church (his followers) would remain one in the same way he and the Father are One.

It is interesting an interesting side note that of those who switch from being Protestant to Catholic are the most informed Protestants; those who switch from Catholicism to a Protestant denomination are those who are least informed about the Church and its history. Something to think about.

Jesus and his Father are one in purpose--the living to do the Fathers will--and only those who do that now as well, get to enter Gods kingdom-Matt 7:21)
Catholicisms bloodguilt has amassed to the heavens-- not so long ago--stood on both sides of ww2 and the young catholic men were allowed by the teachers to kill one another , kill for a mass murderer named Hitler, not only that dragging of Jesus name through the mud, but when the teachers prayed to the same God on both sides showing all of creation one of the biggest hipocrosys ever witnessed on this earth.--Do you know Jesus--not for an iota of 1 single second would Jesus condone brother in Christ vs brother in Christ--under any circumstances. They have proved throughout their history--they do not know God or Jesus. They live by dogma.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus and his Father are one in purpose--the living to do the Fathers will--and only those who do that now as well, get to enter Gods kingdom-Matt 7:21)
Catholicisms bloodguilt has amassed to the heavens-- not so long ago--stood on both sides of ww2 and the young catholic men were allowed by the teachers to kill one another , kill for a mass murderer named Hitler, not only that dragging of Jesus name through the mud, but when the teachers prayed to the same God on both sides showing all of creation one of the biggest hipocrosys ever witnessed on this earth.--Do you know Jesus--not for an iota of 1 single second would Jesus condone brother in Christ vs brother in Christ--under any circumstances. They have proved throughout their history--they do not know God or Jesus. They live by dogma.

You should look at the blood guilt of Protestants "amassed to the heavens." Unfortunately, people of all faiths and denominations are guilty of this, and Protestants have been no less guilty. Look it up.

 

[turzovka]

Jesus and his Father are one in purpose--the living to do the Fathers will--and only those who do that now as well, get to enter Gods kingdom-Matt 7:21)
Catholicisms bloodguilt has amassed to the heavens-- not so long ago--stood on both sides of ww2 and the young catholic men were allowed by the teachers to kill one another , kill for a mass murderer named Hitler, not only that dragging of Jesus name through the mud, but when the teachers prayed to the same God on both sides showing all of creation one of the biggest hipocrosys ever witnessed on this earth.--Do you know Jesus--not for an iota of 1 single second would Jesus condone brother in Christ vs brother in Christ--under any circumstances. They have proved throughout their history--they do not know God or Jesus. They live by dogma.

This is such an esoteric ramble. You really think the message to God's creation is that precise and nuanced and, yet, incomprehensive in many ways, and exclusive. Yes, all those descriptions by what you said equals esoteric for me.

No, you are not a candidate for an explanation as to why the Catholic Church is still and always will be (because of Jesus' commands) the fullness of truth. For the world, however, it is good enough to treat others with charity and kindness and seek God with a humble heart. If it leads to Jesus, the best. If it leads to someone who does not know Jesus but acts in a Christian way towards their fellow man... that too is victory. They will see heaven.


By the way Meriweather, I like what you mentioned here earlier. I think there is a lot of truth to it. -->
It is interesting an interesting side note that of those who switch from being Protestant to Catholic are the most informed Protestants; those who switch from Catholicism to a Protestant denomination are those who are least informed about the Church and its history. Something to think about.