Catholic Bishops Oppose Compromise on Birth-Control

[California Girl]

It's also worth pointing out that people actually make salaries at not for profits. Just saying, because I just KNOW there's gotta be people here too dumb to know that.

Good. They can pay for their birth control then.

Why the **** do we have to have 'free' stuff that isn't free? Why should I pay for something that goes against my religious beliefs for you? Pay for it yourself.

 

[G.T.]

It's also worth pointing out that people actually make salaries at not for profits. Just saying, because I just KNOW there's gotta be people here too dumb to know that.

Good. They can pay for their birth control then.

Why the **** do we have to have 'free' stuff that isn't free? Why should I pay for something that goes against my religious beliefs for you? Pay for it yourself.

Insurance isn't free. That's a canaard.

 

[JoeB131]

It's not a charity when you chaRGE.

Exactly. I ran up $50,000 of bills at the Catholic Hospitals between 2006 and 2008, some of which I paid, some of which my insurance did. (Oddly, the company got rid of people who ran up medical bills in 2008) and the Catholics were happy to take my dirty, dirty atheist money.

It's about the money.

That's because you could afford to pay. They treat many who cannot. If it was a 'profit making' enterprise, it wouldn't cost the Church $5.7 billion a year. But it does.

The Catholics treated you, and you paid. Others don't pay. Such is life. Get over it or use another hospital - we promise not to give a shit.

BUt that's the point. My guess is that what it cost was nowhere near what they charged. (given the fact that the insurance company got them to lop large chunks off the initial bill.) So they charged the paying customers more to keep it afloat.

Actually, it was a doctor who treated me, and common, regular employees, many of who- GASP - use birth control, who helped. There wasn't a bishop in sight. The Catholics just collected the money.

The Catholics have to follow the same laws as everyone else. You don't get to impose your stupid religion on the rest of us. You don't even get to impose it on your employees, if they don't want to. And that's how it should be.

 

[JoeB131]

It's also worth pointing out that people actually make salaries at not for profits. Just saying, because I just KNOW there's gotta be people here too dumb to know that.

Good. They can pay for their birth control then.

Why the **** do we have to have 'free' stuff that isn't free? Why should I pay for something that goes against my religious beliefs for you? Pay for it yourself.

Insurance isn't free. That's a canaard.

And that's exactly the point. The Catholic Church isn't chucking out money for insurance to total strangers. They are paying them insurance for mopping floors and cleaning out biohazard containers and bedpans and watching over sick people.

Insurance is part of their compensation for doing the job.

This is about a business contract. Government has a role in defining the parameters of contracts. That's why they all have pages of legal-ese behind them.

The Church doesn't want the government to make them obey the rule that family planning is health care, but they will be the first to run to the government if the guy mopping floors committed insurance fraud on a slip and fall and tried to take them for millions of dollars.

 

[Inthemiddle]

It's also worth pointing out that people actually make salaries at not for profits. Just saying, because I just KNOW there's gotta be people here too dumb to know that.

Good. They can pay for their birth control then.

Why the **** do we have to have 'free' stuff that isn't free? Why should I pay for something that goes against my religious beliefs for you? Pay for it yourself.

Insurance isn't free. That's a canaard.

It just goes to show that she's not even trying to be honest in anything she's saying. Nobody is expecting her to pay for someone else's birth control. What would, in fact, happen is that the individual covered would be the one to pay the difference in premium rates, the individual would be the one to pay the deductibles for the doctor's visits, and the individual would be the one to pay the co-pays for the prescriptions. But if she admitted that, she'd lose her leg to stand on and would have to admit that the real issue is that she wants the church to be able to have control over other people's personal lives.

 

[zeke]

PLEASE repubs. keep up with this birth control shctick. PLease.

I really like the legislation proposed by a Rethug that ALL employers be given the option to not providing birth control through the companies insurance.

I hope the men Repubs keep on pissing off their women.

Let me see, Obama won last time with a good majority of women voters, two Repub Senators from Maine have already broken away from the Old Men of the GOP. Next you will have women who inform their men that guess what, no birth control, no nookie for you. And Obama will have an even higher percentage of women voters this time around.

I can see that this is really a good winning strategy for the GOP. Please keep it up.

 

[GuyPinestra]

It just goes to show that she's not even trying to be honest in anything she's saying. Nobody is expecting her to pay for someone else's birth control.

Bullshit!

What would, in fact, happen is that the individual covered would be the one to pay the difference in premium rates

Bullshit!

, the individual would be the one to pay the deductibles for the doctor's visits, and the individual would be the one to pay the co-pays for the prescriptions.

Bullshit!

But if she admitted that, she'd lose her leg to stand on and would have to admit that the real issue is that she wants the church to be able to have control over other people's personal lives.

You're full of BULLSHIT today!

The Church is expected to pay the premiums for coverage, nobody else.The individual pays NOTHING, go read the ******* rule, there is no co-pay! And all your ******* strawmen arguments about free exercise are just that, STRAWMEN. And the Church doesn't give a **** what you do in your personal life, they just don't want to PAY for it.

 

[G.T.]

It just goes to show that she's not even trying to be honest in anything she's saying. Nobody is expecting her to pay for someone else's birth control.

Bullshit!

What would, in fact, happen is that the individual covered would be the one to pay the difference in premium rates

Bullshit!

, the individual would be the one to pay the deductibles for the doctor's visits, and the individual would be the one to pay the co-pays for the prescriptions.

Bullshit!

But if she admitted that, she'd lose her leg to stand on and would have to admit that the real issue is that she wants the church to be able to have control over other people's personal lives.

You're full of BULLSHIT today!

The Church is expected to pay the premiums for coverage, nobody else.The individual pays NOTHING, go read the ******* rule, there is no co-pay! And all your ******* strawmen arguments about free exercise are just that, STRAWMEN. And the Church doesn't give a **** what you do in your personal life, they just don't want to PAY for it.

I guess you dont understand how business works.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I, , do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

 

[G.T.]

I, , do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Is this a foreshadowing?

 

[Inthemiddle]

Bullshit!....Bullshit!....Bullshit!....You're full of BULLSHIT today!

Yeah, that was a convincing argument.

The Church is expected to pay the premiums for coverage, nobody else.

This is factually false. There is nothing in the health care law that says that employers must cover the costs of premiums. That would, in fact, be a drastic change from long established practices. So, speaking about being full of bullshit, you're it.

The individual pays NOTHING, go read the ******* rule, there is no co-pay!

Co-pays are not established by law. Nothing says that an employer is required to pay the full costs of all premiums, deductibles, or co-pays. You're imagining things that just don't exist. And you're also betraying your completely ignorance. How old are you? Have you ever had a job? Have you ever had employer health coverage? Because you obviously don't seem to have the first clue how any of it works. So, let me explain it to you in a nutshell....

Employers find insurance companies to provide insurance for employees. The employer negotiates with the insurance companies to come up with plan options that the employees can sign onto. In these negotiations several plan options are created. The employer agrees to pay a fixed amount for the premium of per policy. Nowadays, this is an increasingly small portion of the total costs. The difference is made up by the employee's payments. The employee's contribution is not fixed, and is dependent on which plan the employee chooses. Different plans will include more or less coverage for different services, will have larger or smaller deductibles that the employee is responsible for, and will have larger or smaller co-pays that the employee is responsible for. Usually, a higher premium means lower deductibles and co-pays, and more expansive coverage. It's up to each employee to decide for him/her self which plan works best for their situation.

And that's how employer health insurance works. Welcome to the adult world.

And all your ******* strawmen arguments about free exercise are just that, STRAWMEN.

Do you even know what a straw man is? Okay then. Stop using SAT words that you don't understand.

And the Church doesn't give a **** what you do in your personal life

 

[Luissa]

It's also worth pointing out that people actually make salaries at not for profits. Just saying, because I just KNOW there's gotta be people here too dumb to know that.

Good. They can pay for their birth control then.

Why the **** do we have to have 'free' stuff that isn't free? Why should I pay for something that goes against my religious beliefs for you? Pay for it yourself.

If I am paying a premium, and am a valued employee I would hope my emPloyer wouldn't discriminate against me because I am a women.
The Catholic Church has spent years treating women like second class citizens, how do you feel about that?

 

[California Girl]

It's also worth pointing out that people actually make salaries at not for profits. Just saying, because I just KNOW there's gotta be people here too dumb to know that.

Good. They can pay for their birth control then.

Why the **** do we have to have 'free' stuff that isn't free? Why should I pay for something that goes against my religious beliefs for you? Pay for it yourself.

If I am paying a premium, and am a valued employee I would hope my emPloyer wouldn't discriminate against me because I am a women.
The Catholic Church has spent years treating women like second class citizens, how do you feel about that?

They aren't discriminating against you, they are standing by their doctrine. It's not about you. It's about their doctrine. Two completely different things.

And no, I don't see how I've been treated as a second class citizen. It is my choice to be a Catholic - no one has ever forced me.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's the 'Free Exercise' clause, NY. Catholics operate those non-profit hospitals and schools as part of the exercise of their religion.

The free exercise clause is not an absolute, and it does not cover actions that are not religious by their nature, such as operating hospitals or schools. The fact that you don't understand this shows that you are completely ignorant regarding the limits of first amendment protects and the expansive case law that goes back well more than a century.

Catholic Charities are religious by their nature. Ever single one comes from Christ's teachings.

So are Christian bookstores. Does that entitle them to ignore labor and business laws?

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's also worth pointing out that people actually make salaries at not for profits. Just saying, because I just KNOW there's gotta be people here too dumb to know that.

Good. They can pay for their birth control then.

Why the **** do we have to have 'free' stuff that isn't free? Why should I pay for something that goes against my religious beliefs for you? Pay for it yourself.

If I am paying a premium, and am a valued employee I would hope my emPloyer wouldn't discriminate against me because I am a women.
The Catholic Church has spent years treating women like second class citizens, how do you feel about that?

She uses birth control while sanctimoniously claiming this is some sort of sacred inviolable Catholic doctrine.

And the Church itself is already providing birth control in employee health insurance all over the country.

 

[Luissa]

Good. They can pay for their birth control then.

Why the **** do we have to have 'free' stuff that isn't free? Why should I pay for something that goes against my religious beliefs for you? Pay for it yourself.

If I am paying a premium, and am a valued employee I would hope my emPloyer wouldn't discriminate against me because I am a women.
The Catholic Church has spent years treating women like second class citizens, how do you feel about that?

They aren't discriminating against you, they are standing by their doctrine. It's not about you. It's about their doctrine. Two completely different things.

And no, I don't see how I've been treated as a second class citizen. It is my choice to be a Catholic - no one has ever forced me.

Look at history and the way Catholics have treated women, makes me want to choose to be a Catholic. I would feel better about being forced.

And is nothing to do with their doctrine, and everything to do with these Bishops being male and wanting to play politics.......Because if it was about doctrine, most Catholic Charties, and Catholic owned companies wouldn't already cover BC.
This is all about the Catholic Arch Bishops wanting to get involved in politics, improve their image, and stick it to women all at once. Personally, from what has happened in history don't want to the Catholic Church playing politics.

Why as a Catholic women don't you stand up to the Bishops, a majority of Catholics for one don't even agree with them? Why blindly support a bunch of men with outdated ideas? Because it is your choice? Kind of sounds like you are being a sheep to me.

 

[California Girl]

If I am paying a premium, and am a valued employee I would hope my emPloyer wouldn't discriminate against me because I am a women.
The Catholic Church has spent years treating women like second class citizens, how do you feel about that?

They aren't discriminating against you, they are standing by their doctrine. It's not about you. It's about their doctrine. Two completely different things.

And no, I don't see how I've been treated as a second class citizen. It is my choice to be a Catholic - no one has ever forced me.

Look at history and the way Catholics have treated women, makes me want to choose to be a Catholic. I would feel better about being forced.

And is nothing to do with their doctrine, and everything to do with these Bishops being male and wanting to play politics.......Because if it was about doctrine, most Catholic Charties, and Catholic owned companies wouldn't already cover BC.
This is all about the Catholic Arch Bishops wanting to get involved in politics, improve their image, and stick it to women all at once. Personally, from what has happened in history don't want to the Catholic Church playing politics.

Why as a Catholic women don't you stand up to the Bishops, a majority of Catholics for one don't even agree with them? Why blindly support a bunch of men with outdated ideas? Because it is your choice? Kind of sounds like you are being a sheep to me.

I don't really care how it 'sounds' to you. I don't force my views on you, it would be great if you could do likewise. My faith does not impact on you, unless you choose to work for a Catholic organization... and that is your choice.

I posted the six points from the Conference of Bishops as to why they cannot support the mandate.... they didn't pick this fight... the Administration did when Obama lied to Cardinal Designate Dolan. Now, I appreciate that that is no big deal to you but, to me, I have an issue with your president treating my faith with such a lack of respect.

Let us not forget.... it was the Obama Administration who came to the Church - looking for it's support of ObamaCare... not the other way around... and in order to get that support, he lied to the Cardinal Designate. That is disrespectful. Again, I appreciate that respect may not be a big deal to you but, frankly, I'm sick and tired of politicians who lie. That's just the way I am.... (and yea, that does include the GOP).

 

[Luissa]

They aren't discriminating against you, they are standing by their doctrine. It's not about you. It's about their doctrine. Two completely different things.

And no, I don't see how I've been treated as a second class citizen. It is my choice to be a Catholic - no one has ever forced me.

Look at history and the way Catholics have treated women, makes me want to choose to be a Catholic. I would feel better about being forced.

And is nothing to do with their doctrine, and everything to do with these Bishops being male and wanting to play politics.......Because if it was about doctrine, most Catholic Charties, and Catholic owned companies wouldn't already cover BC.
This is all about the Catholic Arch Bishops wanting to get involved in politics, improve their image, and stick it to women all at once. Personally, from what has happened in history don't want to the Catholic Church playing politics.

Why as a Catholic women don't you stand up to the Bishops, a majority of Catholics for one don't even agree with them? Why blindly support a bunch of men with outdated ideas? Because it is your choice? Kind of sounds like you are being a sheep to me.

I don't really care how it 'sounds' to you. I don't force my views on you, it would be great if you could do likewise. My faith does not impact on you, unless you choose to work for a Catholic organization... and that is your choice.

I posted the six points from the Conference of Bishops as to why they cannot support the mandate.... they didn't pick this fight... the Administration did when Obama lied to Cardinal Designate Dolan. Now, I appreciate that that is no big deal to you but, to me, I have an issue with your president treating my faith with such a lack of respect.

Let us not forget.... it was the Obama Administration who came to the Church - looking for it's support of ObamaCare... not the other way around... and in order to get that support, he lied to the Cardinal Designate. That is disrespectful. Again, I appreciate that respect may not be a big deal to you but, frankly, I'm sick and tired of politicians who lie. That's just the way I am.... (and yea, that does include the GOP).

They can't support the mandate, while it seems most catholic owned companies cover BC and say it isn't Politics? Yeah right.
And If I worked at a Catholic hospital your faith would impact me. You cannot cover one elective med(which isn't always elective) while covering other elective meds. It is called discrimination. So I have a problem with your religion discriminating against women, and treating them with a lack of respect. See how that works?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Look at history and the way Catholics have treated women, makes me want to choose to be a Catholic. I would feel better about being forced.

And is nothing to do with their doctrine, and everything to do with these Bishops being male and wanting to play politics.......Because if it was about doctrine, most Catholic Charties, and Catholic owned companies wouldn't already cover BC.
This is all about the Catholic Arch Bishops wanting to get involved in politics, improve their image, and stick it to women all at once. Personally, from what has happened in history don't want to the Catholic Church playing politics.

Why as a Catholic women don't you stand up to the Bishops, a majority of Catholics for one don't even agree with them? Why blindly support a bunch of men with outdated ideas? Because it is your choice? Kind of sounds like you are being a sheep to me.

I don't really care how it 'sounds' to you. I don't force my views on you, it would be great if you could do likewise. My faith does not impact on you, unless you choose to work for a Catholic organization... and that is your choice.

I posted the six points from the Conference of Bishops as to why they cannot support the mandate.... they didn't pick this fight... the Administration did when Obama lied to Cardinal Designate Dolan. Now, I appreciate that that is no big deal to you but, to me, I have an issue with your president treating my faith with such a lack of respect.

Let us not forget.... it was the Obama Administration who came to the Church - looking for it's support of ObamaCare... not the other way around... and in order to get that support, he lied to the Cardinal Designate. That is disrespectful. Again, I appreciate that respect may not be a big deal to you but, frankly, I'm sick and tired of politicians who lie. That's just the way I am.... (and yea, that does include the GOP).

They can't support the mandate, while it seems most catholic owned companies cover BC and say it isn't Politics? Yeah right.
And If I worked at a Catholic hospital your faith would impact me. You cannot cover one elective med(which isn't always elective) while covering other elective meds. It is called discrimination. So I have a problem with your religion discriminating against women, and treating them with a lack of respect. See how that works?

Toothpaste and toothbrushes are basic human health need.... so is food, housing and soap. Yet nobody is arguing that these should be provided free of charge. Why? because the "we like abortion" platform isn't selling so the Dems have switched to "Republicans hate women" based on any opposition to free BC. BTW left wing whackaloons.. nobody is or has been denied access to BC.. any one of you can walk into a CVS and buy condoms. And I hope you all do.... there's way to many of you needy trolls wandering around as is.

Grow up already.

 

[syrenn]

.