Woodznutz
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In that case that witness will go to jail.
Zone1 Capital Punishment is Wrong!
- Thread starter Donald H
- Start date
Carl in Michigan
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Tell me hat to the victims who died
Blues Man
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Whatever you ignore the point I was making to correct am insignificant oversight.
Doug1943
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There are three good arguments against capital punishment:
(1) It undermines the general lesson we want to teach people: we should not kill each other. These sorts of lessons aren't taught mainly by rational arguments, but by making the undesired behavior 'taboo' -- unthinkable. (Like exposing children to deviant sexuality used to be.)
Unfortunately, since we fight wars periodically, where the main aim is to kill as many of the other side as possible, this is difficult to do. (Plus, as Hollywood and the gaming industry know, young males enjoy watching armed violence -- it sells. So we'll continue to be saturated with entertainment involving armed violence, mainly that where our side doesn't suffer. Unlike real life.)
(2) It gives enormous power to the state, without any possibility of correcting any mistakes the state might make. It's rather strange to see conservatives (of whom I count myself one), who don't think the state has the competence to, say, set a minimum wage or a maximum price for bread, wanting to give it the power to kill its own citizens.
And ... 'the state' is an abstraction. Imagine you have been accused of a murder you did not commit ... or of a killing that you did commit but which you, and many others, would say was justified.
Now imagine that the District Attorney, the investigating officers, the judge, and the jury ... are composed of people of a different race to yours ... people who generally don't like and/or fear people of your race. And/or that the mass media are slanting everything against you ... showing, for example, the person ou killed as a wonderful young man keen to carry on his charitable activities instead of someone with a lengthy criminal record. (See the Ahmaud Arbery case for a recent example.)
Imagine also that all these people, even if they are the same race as you, are not Hollywood stereotypes of authority figures -- idealistic, intelligent, unprejudiced, hardworking etc -- but ordinary people, with all the deficiencies that ordinary people have. Policemen keen to get closure on a case, already convinced that you did it, concealing evidence in your favor. Jury members who just don't like the look of your face, or who had a relative injured by someone similar to you -- independently of the race issue.
Would you really want these people to have the option of killing you, as opposed to imprisoning you for life, with the possibility of 'The Innocence Project' undoing an injustice later?
[ https://innocenceproject.org ] (Don't be put off by the fact that these people have jumped on the 'anti-racist' bandwagon. They also help whites who they believe to be innnocent.)
(3) It's not a deterrent. Yes, if it were to be applied immediately -- as a robber in a convenience store will apply it to you if you fail to comply with his demands -- it would be. But in real life, in a civilized country, "the law's delay" is going to take years, as it should.
And, realistically, we are not going to torture convicted killers to death on live television, even though doing that might help the deterrent effect.
And ... many, probably the majority, of killers are people with low IQs and low impulse control. They don't/can't think about consequences. Let's not explore the statistics here any further ... it's obvious to anyone who reads the news and/or looks at the FBI's Uniform Crime Statistics.
So ... how about this: start earlier. Most killers have a history, in and out of prison, released into the community by liberal chowder-head parole boards or judges, so they can carry on wreaking mayhem. The don't usually begin by killing people ... they begin by threatening or using the threat of killing.
So ... let's do this: if someone is convicted of a crime involving use of a firearm ... cut off his trigger finger. Yeah, yeah, 'cruel and unusual punishment' and all that, but do it under anesthetic and it wouldn't be cruel, and do it often enough and it wouldn't be unusual.
(1) It undermines the general lesson we want to teach people: we should not kill each other. These sorts of lessons aren't taught mainly by rational arguments, but by making the undesired behavior 'taboo' -- unthinkable. (Like exposing children to deviant sexuality used to be.)
Unfortunately, since we fight wars periodically, where the main aim is to kill as many of the other side as possible, this is difficult to do. (Plus, as Hollywood and the gaming industry know, young males enjoy watching armed violence -- it sells. So we'll continue to be saturated with entertainment involving armed violence, mainly that where our side doesn't suffer. Unlike real life.)
(2) It gives enormous power to the state, without any possibility of correcting any mistakes the state might make. It's rather strange to see conservatives (of whom I count myself one), who don't think the state has the competence to, say, set a minimum wage or a maximum price for bread, wanting to give it the power to kill its own citizens.
And ... 'the state' is an abstraction. Imagine you have been accused of a murder you did not commit ... or of a killing that you did commit but which you, and many others, would say was justified.
Now imagine that the District Attorney, the investigating officers, the judge, and the jury ... are composed of people of a different race to yours ... people who generally don't like and/or fear people of your race. And/or that the mass media are slanting everything against you ... showing, for example, the person ou killed as a wonderful young man keen to carry on his charitable activities instead of someone with a lengthy criminal record. (See the Ahmaud Arbery case for a recent example.)
Imagine also that all these people, even if they are the same race as you, are not Hollywood stereotypes of authority figures -- idealistic, intelligent, unprejudiced, hardworking etc -- but ordinary people, with all the deficiencies that ordinary people have. Policemen keen to get closure on a case, already convinced that you did it, concealing evidence in your favor. Jury members who just don't like the look of your face, or who had a relative injured by someone similar to you -- independently of the race issue.
Would you really want these people to have the option of killing you, as opposed to imprisoning you for life, with the possibility of 'The Innocence Project' undoing an injustice later?
[ https://innocenceproject.org ] (Don't be put off by the fact that these people have jumped on the 'anti-racist' bandwagon. They also help whites who they believe to be innnocent.)
(3) It's not a deterrent. Yes, if it were to be applied immediately -- as a robber in a convenience store will apply it to you if you fail to comply with his demands -- it would be. But in real life, in a civilized country, "the law's delay" is going to take years, as it should.
And, realistically, we are not going to torture convicted killers to death on live television, even though doing that might help the deterrent effect.
And ... many, probably the majority, of killers are people with low IQs and low impulse control. They don't/can't think about consequences. Let's not explore the statistics here any further ... it's obvious to anyone who reads the news and/or looks at the FBI's Uniform Crime Statistics.
So ... how about this: start earlier. Most killers have a history, in and out of prison, released into the community by liberal chowder-head parole boards or judges, so they can carry on wreaking mayhem. The don't usually begin by killing people ... they begin by threatening or using the threat of killing.
So ... let's do this: if someone is convicted of a crime involving use of a firearm ... cut off his trigger finger. Yeah, yeah, 'cruel and unusual punishment' and all that, but do it under anesthetic and it wouldn't be cruel, and do it often enough and it wouldn't be unusual.
Last edited:
- Jul 27, 2021
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For clarity, wrongwinger is for CP for EVERYONE who disagrees with him/her/it politically, not just the climate change deniers.
.
rightwinger
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Damn….what an idiotic comment
sartre play
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The not so funny thing about the argument between getting rid of a pregnancy's and killing an actual living human being,
is that those that support pro life also usually support death penalty's killing living human beings.
OR support people who kill other human beings, because there not nice people.
is that those that support pro life also usually support death penalty's killing living human beings.
OR support people who kill other human beings, because there not nice people.
- Jul 27, 2021
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^
That's a pretty well crafted bit of language, for its having come out of a blob of cells.
.
Doug1943
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Two points:
(1) Don't you see the difference between an innocent baby, and a depraved murderer? Those who -- as they see it -- are against killing the first, but favor killing the second, do see the difference.
(2) Can't your own argument be turned against you? Aren't you in favor of killing (or allowing the mother to decide to have someone kill) the innocent baby, but against killing the depraved murderer? That seems much worse to me.
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rightwinger
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BackAgain
Neutronium Member & truth speaker #StopBrandon
Doug1943
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And then there was the prisoner in the Irish court, sentenced to life imprisonment without parole, who exclaimed, "I don't think I can handle that, Judge!", to which the judge replied, "That's all right my good man ... just do as much of it as you can."
Capital Punishment Is Wrong!
Capital Punishment Is Wrong! Capital punishment results in death by execution. It is legal in many states as a punishment for serious crimes, but that does not make it right. Capital punishment should be stopped because it is morally wrong, expensive, and such a slow process.k12.thoughtfullearning.com
There are many reasons why but it's enough to just say that the convicted will be those who can't afford a defense costing 1/2 million dollars or more. Or are black people.
My own personal opinion is that it's uncivilized and amounts to the state (country) shirking it's social responsibilities.
Capital Punishment Is Wrong!
Capital Punishment Is Wrong! Capital punishment results in death by execution. It is legal in many states as a punishment for serious crimes, but that does not make it right. Capital punishment should be stopped because it is morally wrong, expensive, and such a slow process.
There are many reasons why but it's enough to just say that the convicted will be those who can't afford a defense costing 1/2 million dollars or more. Or are black people.
My own personal opinion is that it's uncivilized and amounts to the state (country) shirking it's social responsibilities.
Terrible idea: The problem with your desire to expand the use of the death penalty is it would be counter productive. Every prosecutor knows that it is much harder to get a conviction in a death penalty case because juries are much more hesitant about imposing the death penalty. The result would be more criminal not being charged or convicted of lessor crimes.
The vast majority of violent criminals do make informed and calculated decisions about crimes and possible punishment. They are convinced that they will not get caught and if they do they believe they will beat the rap. About 25% of violent criminals use of drugs and alcohol precludes them making any rational choices so the punishment for their crime is totally irrelevant.
Do criminals think about getting caught before committing a crime? - Barking Up The Wrong Tree
Everything you need to know about Do criminals think about getting caught before committing a crime?
bakadesuyo.com
We will not make any real headway in reducing serious violent crimes such as murder until we address the causes. About the only thing our criminal justice system accomplishes is separating the criminals from society either permanently with capital punishment or temporarily with prison. Neither of which works very well. Capital punishment is not a good deterrent and the recidivism rates of our prisons varies 35% to 70%. Overall nearly half of those in prison today will return to crime when released after spending about 5 years in prison.
badbob85037
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- Jun 30, 2018
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Every day good people die. Every day innocent people die. If you can point out someone who didn't deserve to die 10 times over point it out. I wish they would end these devils before we feed them for 20 years. You must live a charmed life and never had you or your close family wronged. If you had you wouldn't be crying to turn them loose. Maybe if we end a few of these worst of humanity others will think twice. You need to do another look at evil as you can't know.Capital Punishment Is Wrong!
Capital Punishment Is Wrong! Capital punishment results in death by execution. It is legal in many states as a punishment for serious crimes, but that does not make it right. Capital punishment should be stopped because it is morally wrong, expensive, and such a slow process.
There are many reasons why but it's enough to just say that the convicted will be those who can't afford a defense costing 1/2 million dollars or more. Or are black people.
My own personal opinion is that it's uncivilized and amounts to the state (country) shirking it's social responsibilities.
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