Zone1 Can you find the Flaw in Atheist Speaker Christopher Hitchens' Logic Here.

[Meriweather]

I think it fair to say that, in the OT, God was the God of the Hebrew people and would reward or punish everyone in the tribe. In Christianity, God is a God of the individual and rewards or punishments are individual ones. It is almost like a whole new theology.

Remove reward and punishment from the picture. It messes up the entire picture of God. Rather, we live an existence where to every action there is a reaction (or consequence). God is our guide through this maze of consequences. He wants the success of all, and for no one to fail.

No wonder so many fail to find God. The only kind of God they can imagine is a stern, unfair warden there to thwart them.

 

[Hafar1014]

Christianity is built on Good News that sins are forgiven, that we live in a redeemed world, that salvation and the kingdom of God is in the reach of all.

Original sin is the human nature all are born with, which is the first step to learning and transcending into the will of God. We are born only with the knowledge of what we want...to be fed, comforted, and taken care of. We cry to communicate our own will. The two-year-old, "No!s" emphasizes what it is we want or do not want, followed by tantrums. Slowly we learn there is more to this world--and for us--than our own will and what we want. It is not so much we learn to subdue our will to God's will, but rather to expand our own will so that it can include the great will of God.

We are going to fail-miss the target-sin as we learn and are guided into managing this more tremendous power of will. These failures, missing the target, sins, are forgiven. We are loved, have been given a redeemed world, and the way of salvation--where all are welcome--and is open to all.

Once more: Anyone who has the need to bash other faiths are insecure in their own faith, having to constantly reassure him/herself that their own faith, religion, denomination is the one. God meets all of us where we are and from there draws us to Himself.

Sins that never existed must be forgiven or youll suffer in hell. Thats what Christianity is built on. There can be no original sin because Genesis states God will never extend the sin of one man to humanity as whole. We cant be birn with sin thats not only dumb thats crazy.
Begore Jesus humans went to heaven and didnt need to be Christians. There was never a real reason for Jesus to exist so the pagans made one up

 

[Hafar1014]

No. You really need to read the books, and not some crank website you found that you think sounds good.

He is 100% correct

 

[EdwinAMartin]

He is 100% correct

lol he's not even close.

 

[Meriweather]

So are you saying that God's actions needed correcting or that the genocides never happened and the Bible needed correcting?

Consider it is your own understanding that needs correcting. Our ancestors noted and recorded what was wrong with their own behavior--and the disasters that followed their own misbehavior. Sometimes it takes a disaster for people to look back on how they had been behaving and was in desperate need of improvement.

 

[Hafar1014]

lol he's not even close.

Christianity is distortion of Genesis which refutes and denies the entire dogma of Jesus

 

[Meriweather]

What is this Truth that stands on its own?

Is murder/taking innocent life right or wrong?
Is adultery right or wrong?
Is lying right or wrong?
Is stealing right or wrong?
Is wanting your neighbors possession(s) right or wrong?

Why is this so hard to grasp?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Is murder/taking innocent life right or wrong?
Is adultery right or wrong?
Is lying right or wrong?
Is stealing right or wrong?
Is wanting your neighbors possession(s) right or wrong?

Why is this so hard to grasp?

It;s hard because they don't like rules and morals and want to rewrite it all to suit themselves.

 

[Meriweather]

Sins that never existed must be forgiven or youll suffer in hell. Thats what Christianity is built on. There can be no original sin because Genesis states God will never extend the sin of one man to humanity as whole. We cant be birn with sin thats not only dumb thats crazy.
Begore Jesus humans went to heaven and didnt need to be Christians. There was never a real reason for Jesus to exist so the pagans made one up

As a teacher, I am used to correcting work submitted. Your score: 0/100. You may wish to continue your studies if you wish to be taken seriously. All that happens when I read posts such as the one I just corrected are a fit of the giggles.

 

[DGS49]

Here's an interesting question for avowed atheists:

If it were somehow proven that Christ actually did live, die, and come back from the grave with a message essentially as described in the N.T. would you become a Christian?

And the answer is invariably, No, for a variety of nonsensical reasons.

The point for Christians is that those things are pretty much provable with what is known right now. "Christianity" is not perfect - it is run by humans - but Christ was and remains the only perfect human.

 

[ding]

So are you saying that God's actions needed correcting or that the genocides never happened and the Bible needed correcting?

No. That's not what I am saying. Israelites believed God was on their side and crafted narratives of historical events to reflect that.

Yes, ancient Israelites believed that God (Yahweh) was directly involved in their history, acting on their behalf, and they crafted narratives—often referred to as "HisStory" or theological history—to reflect this divine favor and guidance.

These narratives were not intended as modern, objective reporting, but as theological interpretations of events designed to reveal God’s character, power, and covenantal relationship with Israel.

Belief in God on Their Side

• Divine Intervention as History: The foundational events of Israel, such as the Exodus from Egypt and the covenant at Sinai, were viewed as mighty, supernatural acts of God.
• The Covenant Context: Israel’s national identity was built on the belief that they were chosen as a "treasured possession". Therefore, their history was viewed through the lens of divine blessing (when faithful) or judgment (when disobedient).
• Warrior God: The Israelites believed God fought on their behalf, enabling victories, as highlighted in accounts of the conquest of Canaan.

Crafting Narratives to Reflect Faith

• Theological Interpretation over Facticity: Biblical writers were not focused on objective historical reporting by modern standards; rather, they used stories to convey the meaning of events.
• The "Deuteronomistic" Framework: Much of the historical narrative in the Old Testament was compiled or edited to reflect a specific theology: obedience brings blessing, while disobedience leads to exile.
• "HisStory": History was considered an arena for divine revelation, meaning the narratives were crafted to show God’s guidance and intervention in the lives of leaders, kings, and the nation as a whole.
• Reshaping Memory: While based on "historical memory" (e.g., the Exodus), these accounts were often shaped over generations to emphasize theological points rather than mere chronologies.

Evidence of Perspective

• Counter-Narratives: The Bible itself sometimes contains conflicting accounts of the same event (e.g., different descriptions of the conquest in Joshua), suggesting that different, yet often faith-driven, perspectives were included.
• No Outside Verification: Many of the foundational events (like the exodus of millions) lack direct archaeological or non-biblical evidence, supporting the view that they were, in part, narratives crafted to establish identity and religious belief.
• Function of Narrative: These stories served as a "cultic" or community-defining memory, ensuring that subsequent generations understood their identity as being dependent on and protected by God.
  

In summary, the Israelites viewed their past not as a series of random occurrences, but as a purposeful, divine narrative, and they wrote their history to affirm that God was indeed with them.

 

[Hafar1014]

As a teacher, I am used to correcting work submitted. Your score: 0/100. You may wish to continue your studies if you wish to be taken seriously. All that happens when I read posts such as the one I just corrected are a fit of the giggles.

You cant explain your opinion while I can. Christianity is based on Genesis. There is no original sin or fall of man in Genesis. Prove there is. Genesis is the moral teaching of man and the trial for mans freedom. Gods plan all along was for Adam to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of right and wrong. Thats how he acquires morals that cant be sin because its Gods plan. He also cant know what a sin is before he ate the fruit. You cant commit a sin when you cant know what it is.
Christianity created original sin and hell as threat to force obedience. Its based on a lie

 

[Hafar1014]

Is murder/taking innocent life right or wrong?
Is adultery right or wrong?
Is lying right or wrong?
Is stealing right or wrong?
Is wanting your neighbors possession(s) right or wrong?

Why is this so hard to grasp?

It fails because you dont have any context.
Any of those acts can be right or wrong

 

[ding]

I don't believe it was me who claimed the prophets were wrong, it is you who claim they needed "correcting".

Actually it was you who missrepresented what I wrote and argued I must believe the prohets needed correcting which was incorrect. I corrected you here.

What I said was that Jesus corrected religious misconceptions which you then changed to Jesus corrected their religion. I then showed you which religious misconceptions Jesus corrected here.

 

[ding]

Some of those historical events involved genocide. Correct?

Yes. Which God did not order. Israelites believed God was on their side and crafted narratives of historical events to reflect that which is explained here.

 

[ding]

They are difficult questions for me. Theological beliefs I don't quite understand.

I don't believe you are being honest when you say that. I believe your intent is to subvert Christianity to confirm your bias. If you were honest you would ask questions that showed your curiosity rather than playing the gotcha game. For instance when I wrote Jesus corrected religious misconceptions, instead of being curious and asking what religious misconceptions did Jesus correct you changed it to Jesus corrected religion and asked me which prophets were wrong. That was disingenuous as I never said the prophets were wrong. You literally put words in my mouth and expected me to defend the words you put there.

 

[Hafar1014]

I don't believe you are being honest when you say that. I believe your intent is to subvert Christianity to confirm your bias. If you were honest you would ask questions that showed your curiosity rather than playing the gotcha game. For instance when I wrote Jesus corrected religious misconceptions, instead of being curious and asking what religious misconceptions did Jesus correct you changed it to Jesus corrected religion and asked me which prophets were wrong. That was disingenuous as I never said the prophets were wrong. You literally put words in my mouth and expected me to defend the words you put there.

The misconceptions corrected in his Jesus's name
Belief in God must be a free choice not forced by the threat of hell
The sin of one, Original sin, cant be extended to humanity. Christians claimed it can
There is no hell There is hell in Christianity
There is no devil. There is a devil in Christianity.

 

[Meriweather]

You cant explain your opinion while I can. Christianity is based on Genesis. There is no original sin or fall of man in Genesis. Prove there is. Genesis is the moral teaching of man and the trial for mans freedom. Gods plan all along was for Adam to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of right and wrong. Thats how he acquires morals that cant be sin because its Gods plan. He also cant know what a sin is before he ate the fruit. You cant commit a sin when you cant know what it is.
Christianity created original sin and hell as threat to force obedience. Its based on a lie

I have explained the Christian perspective. You refuse to listen.

 

[ding]

What does "subordinate Christianity" mean? Jews get no pass from me. They bragged about genocide and blamed it on their god. I disapprove but it was a common behavior at the time.

Subordinate means to lower in rank or position. Your posts are intended to discredit Christianity.

They weren't bragging about genocide. And in fact, they did not comitt genocide.

Based on biblical accounts, the ancient Israelites did not kill every man, woman, and child in Canaan, despite commands for total destruction (the "ban" or herem) in texts like Deuteronomy 20:16-18 and 1 Samuel 15. While narratives in Joshua describe intense, sweeping campaigns, other parts of the Bible (such as Judges) indicate many Canaanite groups remained, coexisted, or were subjugated rather than exterminated.

• Biblical Commands: The Torah mandates the total destruction of certain Canaanite nations to prevent the adoption of their religious practices.
• Narrative Discrepancies: While Joshua 10-12 presents a total conquest, Judges 1 and 3 note that many Canaanites were not driven out and continued to live among the Israelites.
• Exceptions: The Bible records instances where non-Israelites were spared, such as Rahab and her family, and the Gibeonites.
• Contextual Interpretation: Many scholars interpret these violent passages as hyperbolic, typical of Ancient Near Eastern warfare literature, or conditional based on the necessity of removing spiritual corruption rather than ethnic cleansing.

Therefore, the biblical narrative depicts a, often incomplete, conquest rather than a total, systematic genocide of the entire population.

 

[Hafar1014]

I have explained the Christian perspective. You refuse to listen.

I dont see any explanation. The Christian perspective is if you dont believe in Jesus you go hell and suffer. They use threats to force obedience. Genesis states the sin of one man cannot be extended to all of humanity. There can be no original sin and thats the foundation of Christianity. A lie