Can the USA ever be United again?

[Pheonixops]

When one reads the various threads on this message board, listens to the media, listens to the rhetoric coming out of DC, it becomes a real concern whether this country has become so divided politically and philosophically that it may not ever be united again.

we have always had different ideas, but we have always been able to find the common ground and go forward as Americans with a common purpose. I do not see that happening today.

Thoughts, comments.

When do you think that we were more "united" as a country and people?

 

[Pheonixops]

We all know that USA is united now

Really? is that why congress has not been able to get anything done? Is that why there is so much partisan hate filling the internet and TV? Is that why obama has said he will rule by dictate?

explain how we are united in a common cause at this period in time.

That's because of advances in technology, before the internet, people spread the same ideas through pamphlets, periodicals, radio, etc.

It doesn't look too united here:

 

[HenryBHough]

Actually, becoming "united" is not only is possible. It's probable.

Probably to the extent other nations have become united.

Like China.

United under a single party.

It won't take any action on the part of American voters.

China need only assert its bought-and-paid-for ownership.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Good post, you and I are on the same page. It really hurts me to think of the mess that we are leaving our kids and grandkids. It hurts me to watch my great country be destroyed by the evil forces of the left. It hurts me to watch God be removed from our national conscience. It hurts me to see the corruption and lying that is commonplace in DC. It hurts me to see our media become an arm of one party that suppressed disent and debate.

I am mad as hell and will not be silenced. I only hope that there are a lot more of us.

I have to be completely honest here because this subject is something that has bothered me for some time now. Ever see a little kid go near a hot stove? You (being the good parent) tell the kid - "don't touch that, it will burn you" and, for a while, the kid listens. However, sooner or later, the kid is going to touch the hot stove and get burned. He HAS to do it. I guess it's part of the learning process. Hot stove = finger burnt.

I fail to understand the left these days. I have to believe that they have the intellectual capability to understand that this country simply CAN NOT go on like it currently is - we are destined for disaster - yet, they are either too stupid to understand, or they celebrate the demise of America. They actually seem to relish this "race to the bottom" and it perplexes the hell out of me.

Are they so insanely jealous of those who achieve success that they would watch their future and their children's future simply vanish and be relegated to cheap history books? They stand back and applaud a man who has accomplished nothing in his 5 years in office other than to divide us and paint those who achieve as "the bad guys". In other words - class warfare.

They ignore the great wealth amassed by those on the left - while denigrating those on the right. They rejoice in those who are "taking" from the government while they dismiss those who actually "work". They point to more government "control" over the people while they demonize those who speak out against an out-of-control government; calling their Mothers and Fathers "tea baggers" because they would DARE to speak out against this slow death.

They despise anything "patriotic" and anything associated with "God and Country" and they embrace every perversion under the sun. They have attempted to run into the ground, anything remotely connected to "God" - and demand that "religion" take a backseat to "government". After all - to the left - government is THE answer - not God. Their secular humanism knows no limits. Just as in the days of Stalin.

I know that I am old. I get that. However, "old" doesn't mean "stupid". We are living in dangerous times. I haven't felt this uneasy about this country - ever. I lived through Viet nam. I lived through riots. I have lived through impeachments and threats of impeachments. I lived through assassinations and attempted assassinations. I have lived through great presidents and horrible presidents. I have lived through inflation and high unemployment. I lived through recession, gas wars, oil embargoes and long gas lines.

But one thing always remained strong about this country - hope. And every time we were beginning to be counted out - we came back.

I wish to hell that I believed that "America's best days were ahead of it" - but I know better. The current crop of people that are representing us are incompetent and, more importantly, are out for themselves.

The left in this country are no longer "patriots". They are Marxists, Communists and fascists. They have been brought up to believe that America is inherently bad and must be "brought down a peg".

Unfortunately, they fail to understand that THEY are America. It's THEIR futures and their children's future that they are seeking to destroy. So, go ahead and keep touching that hot stove. Hopefully, by the time you are able to figure it out - it won't be too late.

The country has been infiltrated by those who hold nothing but contempt for her; they hate God - Cloward and Piven strategy!

Actually, I have to disagree a little. This country hasn't been "infiltrated" by anyone. These "America haters" have been spawned by us - their mothers and fathers. We sent little Billy and little Cindy off to school hoping (and praying) that they would learn - go to College and become "better" than we are.

Instead we got, in return for keeping our "noses to the grindstone" and not paying attention to what was going on behind the closed doors of public schools, kids that are "little Fidel" and "little Eva".

They were raised by the State. We were busy trying to keep food on the table, mortgages paid. Mom and Dad both working their asses off 6-7 days a week to buy that bigger house - that newer car - or merely trying to pay the bills that kept getting bigger and bigger; living off Visa and Mastercard. The "home" became nothing more than a meeting place for parents and kids once or twice a week (if they were lucky). Mom was no more the center of the home. For the first time in American history - "Mom" was no longer the Matriarch of the family - often she was the principle bread winner.

This isn't the fulfillment of Nikita Krushchev's "We'll take America and never fire a shot" speech. This is the logical fulfillment of bad parenting - regardless of the circumstances. It is destroying this country and frankly, I don't see any way out of it for some time.

I remember the Reverend Billy Graham saying one time - "When we turn our backs on God, we lose everything. When we turn our backs on on our families, we lose ourselves"

Look around you…….

 

[Unkotare]

China need only assert its bought-and-paid-for ownership.

That probably wouldn't work out too well for China.

 

[Redfish]

China need only assert its bought-and-paid-for ownership.

That probably wouldn't work out too well for China.

No, but what happens when they stop buying our debt? or call in the loans?

 

[Andylusion]

No wonder everyone's sick to death of the ugly American loudmouth party...lol...

Feel free to STFU anytime, idiot.

Eat shytte and die, loudmouth Pubtroll. lol

"( Noam Chomsky) told Radio VR during an interview posted online last week that he agreed with the conservative political analyst Norman Ornsteins' characterization of the Tea Party.

“He described them as a radical insurgency opposed to rationality, to political compromise, to participation in a parliamentary system — in fact, with no positive goals themselves."

Noam Chomsky: The Tea Party is the ?petit bourgeois? face of corporate oligarchs | The Raw Story

Boy is that you...

But Noam Chomsky is usually wrong about everything. You realize that Noam Chomsky is a linguist. If you want to discus different languages, then I would expect you to cite Chomsky, who is a brilliant, educated, scholar on languages.

But economics? Public policy? Chomsky doesn't know jack about that.

Even more ironic, Chomsky's father, fled to the US from the socialism in the Ukraine. Now Noam Chomsky is advocating the exact policies, that his father fled from... and you think he's a qualified to talk about what?

My opinion is that Chomsky having been an extremely successful scholar known as "father of modern linguistics", found that being a successful linguist didn't give him the attention he desired. So he jumped into politics, and started spouting off, knowing that he would instantly get attention from all the groups that already believe what he was saying.

He doesn't know anything in this area. I've listened to several of his 'talks' and he consistently comes across as ignorant. Why anyone talking about economics or politics, would cite the "father of modern linguistics" for anything, is beyond me.

Find someone with at least a hint of authority to cite.

 

[Andylusion]

China need only assert its bought-and-paid-for ownership.

That probably wouldn't work out too well for China.

No, but what happens when they stop buying our debt? or call in the loans?

China has already stopped buying our debt.

Is China Signaling That It's Almost Done With the U.S. Dollar? | Uncommon Wisdom Daily

Yi Gang, a PBOC deputy governor, said in a speech this week that the bank would stop increasing its foreign-currency reserves, which are currently almost 3.7 trillion U.S. dollars.

The PBOC apparently thinks $3.7 trillion is enough. To stop accumulating more, they will have to let their own yuan currency’s value float in a wider range.

Is this a problem for the U.S.? Not yet, but it could become one.

Part of those excess dollar reserves represent cash loaned to the U.S. Treasury. The Chinese help finance our government’s deficit spending. For now, they seem happy to hold their T-bonds to maturity.

They have already stopped buying US debt.

They can't "call the loans". You are confusing a loan from a bank, with a bond sold. You go to a bank, and ask for money. They open a line of credit. Then at a later date, the bank can close the line of credit by "calling the loan", and you have to pay back, or there's a problem.

That's not how governments bonds work. It's not like the US government, went to the bank of China, and asked for a line of credit.

With a bond, the government offers the bond, with fixed interest rate, and a fixed maturity date. The terms of the bond, are set by the bond seller. Not the buyer of the bond.

Thus China has no rights to "call the loan". You can't call the loan on any bond. If you buy GM, or Chrysler bonds, you can't 'call the loan' on them either. Think of it more like buying a CD at a bank. You can't 'call the loan' to the bank, and get your money back. You have to wait until the CD matures. China has to wait until the T-bonds mature.

Now here's the key...

What exactly *can* China do? The answer is... not much.

When Greece restructured it's debt, it included a nearly 80% write off, of the debts it owed. What could the bond holders do? Nothing. What option did they have? Take the Greek government to court, and sue them? The result would have been the bailout would have not happened, and the bond holders would have ended up with zero.

Which is better? Getting some of the money back, or zero?

This is the same thing with China and the US. If the US defaults, what do you think China is going to do? Send a ship over, load up the Statue of Liberty, and sale it back to China? You think they are going to show up with massive helicopters, load up the Capital Building, and fly it back to China?

China can't do diddly jack if we default.

Now they can help cause us to default. But that would harm them as well. They could have a massive fire sale of US T-bills. But as they start flooding the market with T-Bills, very very quickly the value of T-Bills is going to drop like a rock. Supply goes way up, demand stays the same, or even drops... what happens to price? It drops.

Very quickly the value of the T-bills on the market will drop far below what China paid for them. They'll end up losing billions on billions, selling off T-bills they paid for more for. That would harm us, yes, but it would also harm them.

Just not likely to happen. Sorry.

But beyond that, there is very little China can do.

 

[Redfish]

That probably wouldn't work out too well for China.

No, but what happens when they stop buying our debt? or call in the loans?

China has already stopped buying our debt.

Is China Signaling That It's Almost Done With the U.S. Dollar? | Uncommon Wisdom Daily

Yi Gang, a PBOC deputy governor, said in a speech this week that the bank would stop increasing its foreign-currency reserves, which are currently almost 3.7 trillion U.S. dollars.

The PBOC apparently thinks $3.7 trillion is enough. To stop accumulating more, they will have to let their own yuan currency’s value float in a wider range.

Is this a problem for the U.S.? Not yet, but it could become one.

Part of those excess dollar reserves represent cash loaned to the U.S. Treasury. The Chinese help finance our government’s deficit spending. For now, they seem happy to hold their T-bonds to maturity.

They have already stopped buying US debt.

They can't "call the loans". You are confusing a loan from a bank, with a bond sold. You go to a bank, and ask for money. They open a line of credit. Then at a later date, the bank can close the line of credit by "calling the loan", and you have to pay back, or there's a problem.

That's not how governments bonds work. It's not like the US government, went to the bank of China, and asked for a line of credit.

With a bond, the government offers the bond, with fixed interest rate, and a fixed maturity date. The terms of the bond, are set by the bond seller. Not the buyer of the bond.

Thus China has no rights to "call the loan". You can't call the loan on any bond. If you buy GM, or Chrysler bonds, you can't 'call the loan' on them either. Think of it more like buying a CD at a bank. You can't 'call the loan' to the bank, and get your money back. You have to wait until the CD matures. China has to wait until the T-bonds mature.

Now here's the key...

What exactly *can* China do? The answer is... not much.

When Greece restructured it's debt, it included a nearly 80% write off, of the debts it owed. What could the bond holders do? Nothing. What option did they have? Take the Greek government to court, and sue them? The result would have been the bailout would have not happened, and the bond holders would have ended up with zero.

Which is better? Getting some of the money back, or zero?

This is the same thing with China and the US. If the US defaults, what do you think China is going to do? Send a ship over, load up the Statue of Liberty, and sale it back to China? You think they are going to show up with massive helicopters, load up the Capital Building, and fly it back to China?

China can't do diddly jack if we default.

Now they can help cause us to default. But that would harm them as well. They could have a massive fire sale of US T-bills. But as they start flooding the market with T-Bills, very very quickly the value of T-Bills is going to drop like a rock. Supply goes way up, demand stays the same, or even drops... what happens to price? It drops.

Very quickly the value of the T-bills on the market will drop far below what China paid for them. They'll end up losing billions on billions, selling off T-bills they paid for more for. That would harm us, yes, but it would also harm them.

Just not likely to happen. Sorry.

But beyond that, there is very little China can do.

Wow, thanks for the finance 101 class. We all know how bonds work.

What happens when the principle payments come due and we don't have the money to make them?

 

[Andylusion]

No, but what happens when they stop buying our debt? or call in the loans?

China has already stopped buying our debt.

Is China Signaling That It's Almost Done With the U.S. Dollar? | Uncommon Wisdom Daily

Yi Gang, a PBOC deputy governor, said in a speech this week that the bank would stop increasing its foreign-currency reserves, which are currently almost 3.7 trillion U.S. dollars.

The PBOC apparently thinks $3.7 trillion is enough. To stop accumulating more, they will have to let their own yuan currency’s value float in a wider range.

Is this a problem for the U.S.? Not yet, but it could become one.

Part of those excess dollar reserves represent cash loaned to the U.S. Treasury. The Chinese help finance our government’s deficit spending. For now, they seem happy to hold their T-bonds to maturity.

They have already stopped buying US debt.

They can't "call the loans". You are confusing a loan from a bank, with a bond sold. You go to a bank, and ask for money. They open a line of credit. Then at a later date, the bank can close the line of credit by "calling the loan", and you have to pay back, or there's a problem.

That's not how governments bonds work. It's not like the US government, went to the bank of China, and asked for a line of credit.

With a bond, the government offers the bond, with fixed interest rate, and a fixed maturity date. The terms of the bond, are set by the bond seller. Not the buyer of the bond.

Thus China has no rights to "call the loan". You can't call the loan on any bond. If you buy GM, or Chrysler bonds, you can't 'call the loan' on them either. Think of it more like buying a CD at a bank. You can't 'call the loan' to the bank, and get your money back. You have to wait until the CD matures. China has to wait until the T-bonds mature.

Now here's the key...

What exactly *can* China do? The answer is... not much.

When Greece restructured it's debt, it included a nearly 80% write off, of the debts it owed. What could the bond holders do? Nothing. What option did they have? Take the Greek government to court, and sue them? The result would have been the bailout would have not happened, and the bond holders would have ended up with zero.

Which is better? Getting some of the money back, or zero?

This is the same thing with China and the US. If the US defaults, what do you think China is going to do? Send a ship over, load up the Statue of Liberty, and sale it back to China? You think they are going to show up with massive helicopters, load up the Capital Building, and fly it back to China?

China can't do diddly jack if we default.

Now they can help cause us to default. But that would harm them as well. They could have a massive fire sale of US T-bills. But as they start flooding the market with T-Bills, very very quickly the value of T-Bills is going to drop like a rock. Supply goes way up, demand stays the same, or even drops... what happens to price? It drops.

Very quickly the value of the T-bills on the market will drop far below what China paid for them. They'll end up losing billions on billions, selling off T-bills they paid for more for. That would harm us, yes, but it would also harm them.

Just not likely to happen. Sorry.

But beyond that, there is very little China can do.

Wow, thanks for the finance 101 class. We all know how bonds work.

What happens when the principle payments come due and we don't have the money to make them?

Bonds are maturing every single month. That's what the debt service payment is all about. The principle payments are coming due every month.

Currently the Treasury Department, is paying off the mature bonds, and turning right around and selling off new bonds, plus more.

But that's only half of the problem. The other half is the Federal Reserve.

The Treasury Department, is selling Bonds on the open market. So Rich Guy A, buys a bond.

Then the Federal Reserve steps in and buys bonds from the open market, which includes T-Bonds, from Rich Guy A.

But the Federal Reserve isn't buying the bonds with open market funds, but instead is buying the bonds with newly printed money from the Treasury Department.

Meanwhile, by purchasing the T-Bonds on the open market, this creates artificial demand for T-Bonds, that wouldn't exist if the government wasn't buying it's own debt.

Thus the interest rates on the Bonds are very low.

This is compounded by the Frank-Dodd banking reform, which required banks to buy more bonds, to have a higher capital reserve.

In other words, between banks being forced to buy T-bonds, and the government buying it's own debt, with printed money it printed.... the entire system right now is a shell game.

If we do not stop the government from over spending, eventually this house of cards will come down. Even the Federal Reserve grasps this, and that is why they are cutting down on buying Federal Debt. But as they slow down, the demand for debt will drop, and the interest rates will climb. Eventually there will be a crisis in the Bond market... again... unless we cut spending, and stop borrowing.