Can the Federal Government Constitutionally redistribute wealth?

[dcraelin]

Cool. Care to answer the question?

this multi-quote thing is really throwing me off. Did they change something, in the way it works?

Anyway the answer to the opening question if thats what you mean is: It is Consitutional.

 

[Dad2three]

The Federalist Papers are a window into what the thought process was and given to the population to promote support for the soon to be Constitution. TO dismiss them is purely an attempt ( a poor one) to redefine the Constitution into something it is not.

You mean it was PURELY propaganda to get NYers to pass the STRONG FEDERAL US CONSTITUTION right? Advertisements of the day?

 

[boedicca]

The Constitution enumerates the powers of the Federal government. Then to make it clear that those are the only powers the Federal government has, they wrote the 10th amendment, which says anything the Federal government is not authorized to do, it is prohibited from doing. And to go even further, they said any right of the people not protected in the Bill of Rights or other amendments is as important as any right that is protected in the Bill of Rights or other amendments.

Which means, protecting people from having their wealth confiscated and redistributed, which is clearly not in the constitution, is as important as have our speech restricted or our property searched without a warrant.

So, for those of you who consider it to be a legitimate use of Federal force to redistribute wealth, what Constitutional authority is that based on? Be specific.

In a way - yes. It's called taxation. Look at Burger King (the latest corporation to abandon the US). 40% Corporate taxes. The HIGHEST in the world. This has been Obama's plan all along. Raise the corporate tax structure to the point that business leaves this country - as it is - then make the slaves (er...people) completely dependent on Uncle Sugar. HE decides how much "re-distribution" takes place in America.

He'll be gone soon and perhaps we can get back to a business friendly environment in this country and business will return.

Ignorant tool. Corp tax rate is 35% THOUGH that's the marginal rate, tax burden (EFFECTIVE) is around 12% lowest in 40+ years


US ACTUAL TAX RATE IN INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD IS ONLY LOWER FOR MEXICO AND CHILE

Ignorant tool, so Burger King is moving to Canada not knowing this? LOL, sure they are... This is square on the Democratic party. Expecting our corporations to bend over and pay through the nose to the State is ridiculous, as is that we screw our corporations. We need to incent them to stay, or at a minimum, not push them to leave.

And what a bunch of ridiculous children you are. Instead of fixing it, you attack them. Read your own post and how you're saying what your party is saying and you will realize ... why they want to go.

They are great Americans, making the right choice. I don't own stock in them, that's about to change.

The moron doesn't realize that BurgerKing isn't movign to avoid taxes on income earned in the U.S. - they'll keep paying taxes on that. Their moving because the U.S. is the only country (well, I think Zimbabwe may do this as well) that taxes income earned in other countries.

 

[dblack]

The Federalist Papers are a window into what the thought process was and given to the population to promote support for the soon to be Constitution. TO dismiss them is purely an attempt ( a poor one) to redefine the Constitution into something it is not.

You mean it was PURELY propaganda to get NYers to pass the STRONG FEDERAL US CONSTITUTION right? Advertisements of the day?

It was the offered rationale, and explanation, for the contents of the new Constitution. If the Federalist Papers were, as you suggest, propaganda, and the Constitution actually means something different than what its authors claimed, then the ratification of the Constitution was fraudulent and should be reconsidered.

 

[Dad2three]

Ignorant tool, so Burger King is moving to Canada not knowing this? LOL, sure they are... This is square on the Democratic party. Expecting our corporations to bend over and pay through the nose to the State is ridiculous, as is that we screw our corporations. We need to incent them to stay, or at a minimum, not push them to leave.

And what a bunch of ridiculous children you are. Instead of fixing it, you attack them. Read your own post and how you're saying what your party is saying and you will realize ... why they want to go.

They are great Americans, making the right choice. I don't own stock in them, that's about to change.

LOL, So you CAN'T refute my post, AND the US has the 3rd lowest EFFECTIVE tax burden in the industrialized world?

And yes, unpatriotic, short sighted Corps are trying the 'inversion' of moving to other nations so FOREIGN profits (ABOUT 20% of ALL US Corp profits total) don't get taxed, IF the GOP wasn't blocking it, GOOD GOVERNANCE COULD FIX IT

 

[Dad2three]

The government said it can ignore Constiutional limits. Wow, what a compelling argument.

I don't have to follow traffic laws, I just decided...

Well SCOTUS has REPEATEDLY said you are wrong and a moron

 

[Dad2three]

You know why....

But Ben WAS talking about the FEDERAL GOV'T, despite the wing nuts posit

 

[dcraelin]

If the taxation power is being used to redistribute wealth, or other wise manipulate society, it's being abused. The purpose of taxes is to fund the legitimate functions of government, not to use as a 'workaround' for things government would like to do, but otherwise haven't been authorized by the Constitution.

I think those who pushed for the 16th amendment knew that wealth can pool up in a society at the top.....this is essentially what happened in the monarchy the founding generation rejected. Progressive Income taxes allowed by the 16th,(and not really disallowed by the Constitution in its original form either) is a partial remedy for that. Some may choose to call that "redistribution"

 

[kaz]

Cool. Care to answer the question?

this multi-quote thing is really throwing me off. Did they change something, in the way it works?

Anyway the answer to the opening question if thats what you mean is: It is Consitutional.

I agree on the quotes, it's been confusing. And that is the first part of the question, the rest of it is, where does the Constitution grant the Federal government that authority since the Constitution is a document of enumerated Federal powers.

 

[Dad2three]

Do you know how long these discussions are? What did I ask for a link to, dumb ass. I don't see anything I've said this is relevant to.

You asked for a link showing the redistribution upward the pat 30 years, I gave it to you dummy!

 

[kaz]

Yes, that is correct, and no, they don't grasp that. And no other western power does that to their own corporations. Which is why ours are leaving. And rightly so. Let's fix the system and stop pushing them out the door.

Yet all we have from the Axis of Evil, Obama, Harry and Nancy is blaming the victim. Nothing will change, they are intent on achieving our doom.

The Constitution enumerates the powers of the Federal government. Then to make it clear that those are the only powers the Federal government has, they wrote the 10th amendment, which says anything the Federal government is not authorized to do, it is prohibited from doing. And to go even further, they said any right of the people not protected in the Bill of Rights or other amendments is as important as any right that is protected in the Bill of Rights or other amendments.

Which means, protecting people from having their wealth confiscated and redistributed, which is clearly not in the constitution, is as important as have our speech restricted or our property searched without a warrant.

So, for those of you who consider it to be a legitimate use of Federal force to redistribute wealth, what Constitutional authority is that based on? Be specific.

In a way - yes. It's called taxation. Look at Burger King (the latest corporation to abandon the US). 40% Corporate taxes. The HIGHEST in the world. This has been Obama's plan all along. Raise the corporate tax structure to the point that business leaves this country - as it is - then make the slaves (er...people) completely dependent on Uncle Sugar. HE decides how much "re-distribution" takes place in America.

He'll be gone soon and perhaps we can get back to a business friendly environment in this country and business will return.

Ignorant tool. Corp tax rate is 35% THOUGH that's the marginal rate, tax burden (EFFECTIVE) is around 12% lowest in 40+ years


US ACTUAL TAX RATE IN INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD IS ONLY LOWER FOR MEXICO AND CHILE

Ignorant tool, so Burger King is moving to Canada not knowing this? LOL, sure they are... This is square on the Democratic party. Expecting our corporations to bend over and pay through the nose to the State is ridiculous, as is that we screw our corporations. We need to incent them to stay, or at a minimum, not push them to leave.

And what a bunch of ridiculous children you are. Instead of fixing it, you attack them. Read your own post and how you're saying what your party is saying and you will realize ... why they want to go.

They are great Americans, making the right choice. I don't own stock in them, that's about to change.

The moron doesn't realize that BurgerKing isn't movign to avoid taxes on income earned in the U.S. - they'll keep paying taxes on that. Their moving because the U.S. is the only country (well, I think Zimbabwe may do this as well) that taxes income earned in other countries.

 

[kaz]

Ignorant tool, so Burger King is moving to Canada not knowing this? LOL, sure they are... This is square on the Democratic party. Expecting our corporations to bend over and pay through the nose to the State is ridiculous, as is that we screw our corporations. We need to incent them to stay, or at a minimum, not push them to leave.

And what a bunch of ridiculous children you are. Instead of fixing it, you attack them. Read your own post and how you're saying what your party is saying and you will realize ... why they want to go.

They are great Americans, making the right choice. I don't own stock in them, that's about to change.

LOL, So you CAN'T refute my post, AND the US has the 3rd lowest EFFECTIVE tax burden in the industrialized world?

And yes, unpatriotic, short sighted Corps are trying the 'inversion' of moving to other nations so FOREIGN profits (ABOUT 20% of ALL US Corp profits total) don't get taxed, IF the GOP wasn't blocking it, GOOD GOVERNANCE COULD FIX IT

So if our tax rates are so low, why are they leaving? Is it their racism over the black president?

 

[Dad2three]

LOL, as OKTexas said, the context would show your ignorance. He is just saying that government can tax at will, he says that people cannot cheat on their taxes. He is saying that when a ...justly due ... tax is withheld, that is wrong. Once a justly due tax has been levied, at that point, the tax is the people's money. It does not say all money is the people's money, only the taxes, justly due taxes.

Damn, you people need to learn to read.

Justly done? Good you agree, TAXES ARE WHAT IS NEEDED TO FUND GOV'T AND THE REST OF BEN'S QUOTE WAS:

"All Property, indeed ... seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

 

[boedicca]

Yes, that is correct, and no, they don't grasp that. And no other western power does that to their own corporations. Which is why ours are leaving. And rightly so. Let's fix the system and stop pushing them out the door.

Yet all we have from the Axis of Evil, Obama, Harry and Nancy is blaming the victim. Nothing will change, they are intent on achieving our doom.

[

The Dems' motto: All Your Moneys Are Belong To Us.

 

[kaz]

The government said it can ignore Constiutional limits. Wow, what a compelling argument.

I don't have to follow traffic laws, I just decided...

Well SCOTUS has REPEATEDLY said you are wrong and a moron

LOL, you didn't get it. SCOTUS is the Federal Government, you argued the Federal government gave itself the power to ignore the Constitution. That is a non-argument. Other than for an authoritarian leftist like you, but your brain is not in play, your penis has been mailed to Obama.

 

[Dad2three]

It also doesn't say all money is the people's money, it only says legitimate taxes are the people's money. It doesn't even define what taxes are legitimate. He's only arguing against tax evasion.

ONCE MORE:
" All the Property that is necessary to a Man for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

 

[kaz]

You know why....

But Ben WAS talking about the FEDERAL GOV'T, despite the wing nuts posit

That was OKTexas, dumb ass. I didn't disagree with that.

Where you are wrong is you used it to say Ben Franklin believed all money belongs to the government. Actually, he said justly levied taxes are. He did not say government can tax whatever it wants, he just said if taxes are justly levied, the money taxed at that point belongs to the government. He was against income tax evasion, he was not a Marxist like you thought he was.

I already explained this to you several times. What is wrong with you? Learning disability? Blowing Obama and can't breathe? What is it?

 

[Dad2three]

You posted the whole thing, and it showed you were wrong. It did not say all money is the people's money as you claimed. You need to learn to read. Maybe restart in elementary school. LOL. Liberalism, I couldn't make up the shit you actually believe. Look at Jamestown, you are looking in a mirror. That could have been you.

Yes, you DO need to learn to read and comprehend,YOUR posit was NEVER my posit

"All the Property that is necessary to a Man for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

 

[kaz]

Do you know how long these discussions are? What did I ask for a link to, dumb ass. I don't see anything I've said this is relevant to.

You asked for a link showing the redistribution upward the pat 30 years, I gave it to you dummy!

You deleted the discussion, dumb ass. And your post didn't show that.

 

[kaz]

LOL, as OKTexas said, the context would show your ignorance. He is just saying that government can tax at will, he says that people cannot cheat on their taxes. He is saying that when a ...justly due ... tax is withheld, that is wrong. Once a justly due tax has been levied, at that point, the tax is the people's money. It does not say all money is the people's money, only the taxes, justly due taxes.

Damn, you people need to learn to read.

Justly done? h good you agree, TAXES ARE WHAT IS NEEDED TO FUND GOV';T AND THE REST OF BEN'S QUOTE WAS:

"All Property, indeed ... seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

LOL, so you did finally get the point he was referring to justly levied taxes since you deleted that part of the quote.

He's against tax cheats, he's not a Marxist, homey.