Can South America Become Great?

[Sonny Clark]

The term "Global Economy" basically means "equalization to the lowest level". Use the U.S.A. as an example.

Actually I heard a Republican author the other day that pointed out that while free trade has hurt the masses in America it has brought billions of non Americans out of poverty.

Mexico, every other s. American country we do free trade with in south america including Cuba and Columbia now, India, china, Africa.

If you mean you'd prefer a dog eat dog world of winners and losers that produces a small rich and merchant class and the masses are poor vs our way where theres a small poor and rich class but the masses are middle class?

NO, I do NOT mean anything of the such, and never implied such nonsense.
Just curious, what would be wrong with fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade agreements and policies?

We should help good 3rd world nations if they plan on using their prosperity to lift their citizens out of poverty and if they have something to trade.

FYI -- Charity starts at home. Why should we help foreign economies before we help our own? Why should we spend hard earned American tax dollars abroad before spending them here to stabilize our own economy? What would be wrong with putting Americans back to work, producing what America uses and consumes? Why sacrifice our own economic well-being in order to strengthen foreign economies? Do American taxpayers want their tax dollars spent elsewhere to assist others, while America experiences economic hardships? Do we elect representatives to serve us, or do we elect them to serve the world, and place America last on the priority list?

Please answer all questions honestly. Thanks.

You asked 6 questions. Most of the points you are making I would agree with. I'm a liberal. I like unions. I'm pro labor.

I am NOT a Liberal, Conservative, Moderate, Republican, Democrat, Right wing, Left Wing, nor anything other than an American for America. In my opinion, unions helped in sending our jobs to foreign labor markets. I am pro American labor.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Sure they can become profitable. Elect more democrats. They are using our money to prop up every country but ours. Hitlery can get to them as soon as she robs us to build up India. Can you say, "made in India"? Wal-mart can't wait!

Uh ... Most South American countries are benefiting more from corporations and investors pissed off with the overburdening governmental policies in the US.
I wouldn't go so far as to suggest it is all a good thing or all a bad thing ... Just a lot easier for a country to get excited about improvements when they amount to revenue increases.

At the stage some South American Countries are ... They leave you alone to do your business because the increased revenues are worth the effort.

.

Of course they are benefiting from corporations leaving (we are going to tax you to death) America, and moving to their countries. Thank NAFTA, and soon the Pacific Trade deal. Anybody's allowed to profit but us. Because equality doesn't mean, bring other countries up to our standard, it means whittling us down to theirs.

So if over taxing the "1%" means the 1% are leaving and taking their jobs with them, do you still think that taxing to the hilt is an incentive for companies wanting to do business here?

If they don't pay taxes you'll have to and that will bring your quality of life down.

The 1% are going to go where wages are lowest if we allow them to without tariffs. Tax them and if abc company won't move their operations home xyz company will take their business.

Only a government for we the people will do the right things. Unfortunately America is owned by the rich now. They say what goes.

Who's to blame? Middle class dicks who vote republican

FYI - Both, I repeat, BOTH Democrats and Republicans vote to elect anti-America low-life self-serving egotistical self-centered greedy professional politicians to serve in government, and have done so for over a half century now.

 

[BlackSand]

But, it's the American corporations and business community that fund election campaigns. Businesses look for the cheapest labor, the fewest amount of rules and regulations, and the ease on export/import. We ( corporate America ) actually LOVE foreign economic environments. And, since we basically have free and open trade, who can blame corporate America for taking advantage of a sweet arrangement? We sacrifice our economic well-being in favor of strengthening foreign economies.

Lolz ... Sonny ... Some corporations have chosen to keep their interests within the American system ... But most corporations still have international business and interests.
As long as the government wants to punish or pander corporations ... Then there are players that will play that system.
You cannot buy what is not for sale ... And that includes influence in the political sector.

I think what some people are missing is the amount of capital resources corporations are earning offshore and holding offshore.
To bring those resources back into the states ... They would be taxed anywhere from 35-43%.
There are enough capital resources offshore for American corporations ... That if a better agreement could be made in bringing them back ... The Fed wouldn't have to keep printing money and signing blank checks.

Mitt Romney had a plan for this ... But he didn't get elected.

.

 

[Sonny Clark]

But, it's the American corporations and business community that fund election campaigns. Businesses look for the cheapest labor, the fewest amount of rules and regulations, and the ease on export/import. We ( corporate America ) actually LOVE foreign economic environments. And, since we basically have free and open trade, who can blame corporate America for taking advantage of a sweet arrangement? We sacrifice our economic well-being in favor of strengthening foreign economies.

Lolz ... Sonny ... Some corporations have chosen to keep their interests within the American system ... But most corporations still have international business and interests.
As long as the government wants to punish or pander corporations ... Then there are players that will play that system.
You cannot by what is not for sale ... And that includes influence in the political sector.

I think what some people are missing is the amount of capital resources corporations are earning offshore and holding offshore.
To bring those resources back into the states ... They would be taxed anywhere from 35-43%.
There are enough capital resources offshore for American corporations ... That if a better agreement could be made in bringing them back ... The Fed wouldn't have to keep printing money and signing blank checks.

Mitt Romney had a plan for this ... But he didn't get elected.

.

They all work together. Our government is nothing more than a puppet, dancing to the tunes played by the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential. Our government knows about off-shore money. Our government approves of it, and condones it. There are many major corporations in America that are almost entirely owned by foreign interest, or partially owned by foreign interests. Government works for corporate America, and corporate America works for government. They share the same bed. Track campaign financing. Track the untold multi-$millions handed out by Lobbyists. Our government is bought and paid for. Legislation and policy is bought and paid for. All of this is common knowledge, and has been common knowledge for many decades now. We've been sold out for decades.

 

[BlackSand]

They all work together. Our government is nothing more than a puppet, dancing to the tunes played by the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential. Our government knows about off-shore money. Our government approves of it, and condones it. There are many major corporations in America that are almost entirely owned by foreign interest, or partially owned by foreign interests. Government works for corporate America, and corporate America works for government. They share the same bed. Track campaign financing. Track the untold multi-$millions handed out by Lobbyists. Our government is bought and paid for. Legislation and policy is bought and paid for. All of this is common knowledge, and has been common knowledge for many decades now. We've been sold out for decades.

Whatever your opinion of the government ... Don't extend their power further than it exists.
They have no power over the capital resources corporations hold offshore ... And their agreement/approval is unnecessary and irrelevant.

Otherwise ... There is no difference in lobbying for a corporation and lobbying voters for votes.
Corporations do control their resources and there is little to nothing the government can do about that outside of the country.
If you for any reason have been "sold out" ... It would simply be a case of a very poor investment on your part.

Wait for the government, corporation, union, social net or your neighbor to secure your wellbeing ... And you submit to being at their mercy.
That is a piss poor agreement if you ask me ... Which no one seems that likely to do ...

.

 

[westwall]

Can Mexico ever become like Australia or Canada?

Should all the countries unite like Europe did with the Euro?

I know corruption is bad. Is this the problem? The crime cartels?

I'm in manufacturing and know there are thousand of manufacturing plants south of the border. Having a strong manufacturing sector is good. Why isn't that prosperity trickling down? Or is it? I hope one day Mexicans don't need to cross the border just like Canadians.

Mexico certainly could. They are the 5th wealthiest country on the planet in terms of mineral wealth. However, their corrupt leadership keeps Mexico a third world country and they push their discontents north to us to relive the pressure.

Mexico truly needs a REAL revolution to get rid of the scumbags who have been raping that country for well over a century.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It is the corporations that move there and develop the surround areas and resources that benefit the countries

.

^ Read that statement Black Sand made. It is 100% accurate. Read it again. What is a benefit to the countries? What benefits the countries? Corporations. Corporations moving there, and developing.

Now you understand why we have no jobs and they do. Now you get why our middle class has been gutted. Because our country turned Corporations into targets, turned them into public enemy #1% and then taxed them out of our country. We are not developing. We are crumbling. Now the Democrats want the Corporations to move to India and benefit them. And they will spend every dime they can on making India worthy of the Corporation's attention. And they'll continue to target the 1%ers/Corporations here. And the stupid Americans will cheer on their way to the welfare line.

 

[BlackSand]

^ Read that statement Black Sand made. It is 100% accurate. Read it again. What is a benefit to the countries? What benefits the countries? Corporations. Corporations moving there, and developing.

Now you understand why we have no jobs and they do. Now you get why our middle class has been gutted. Because our country turned Corporations into targets, turned them into public enemy #1% and then taxed them out of our country. We are not developing. We are crumbling. Now the Democrats want the Corporations to move to India and benefit them. And they will spend every dime they can on making India worthy of the Corporation's attention. And they'll continue to target the 1%ers/Corporations here. And the stupid Americans will cheer on their way to the welfare line.

I don't think Americans realize that our productivity is being pressed more towards an aristocratic society (minus farming and basic services).
We are already a world leader in supplying services in the global markets versus exports.
Maybe as short as 50 years from now ... The average American worker will get on a plane once a month and go fix problems elsewhere that they couldn't fix from their desk with a few phone calls.

Buckle Up Heroes!

.

 

[Sonny Clark]

They all work together. Our government is nothing more than a puppet, dancing to the tunes played by the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential. Our government knows about off-shore money. Our government approves of it, and condones it. There are many major corporations in America that are almost entirely owned by foreign interest, or partially owned by foreign interests. Government works for corporate America, and corporate America works for government. They share the same bed. Track campaign financing. Track the untold multi-$millions handed out by Lobbyists. Our government is bought and paid for. Legislation and policy is bought and paid for. All of this is common knowledge, and has been common knowledge for many decades now. We've been sold out for decades.

Whatever your opinion of the government ... Don't extend their power further than it exists.
They have no power over the capital resources corporations hold offshore ... And their agreement/approval is unnecessary and irrelevant.

Otherwise ... There is no difference in lobbying for a corporation and lobbying voters for votes.
Corporations do control their resources and there is little to nothing the government can do about that outside of the country.
If you for any reason have been "sold out" ... It would simply be a case of a very poor investment on your part.

Wait for the government, corporation, union, social net or your neighbor to secure your wellbeing ... And you submit to being at their mercy.
That is a piss poor agreement if you ask me ... Which no one seems that likely to do ...

.

The WHOLE country has been sold out, not just me. I don't depend on government, nor corporations for anything. I think that you totally misunderstand by use of "sold out".

 

[BlackSand]

The WHOLE country has been sold out, not just me. I don't depend on government, nor corporations for anything. I think that you totally misunderstand by use of "sold out".

That wouldn't be the whole country ... I am part of this country at the moment and haven't been sold out.
Of course I never made an investment in the government or implied societal concerns after my military service (which thankfully taught me what I needed to know).
The only way you or anyone else could be "sold out" ... Is if you expected something (anything) from someone else.

I understand what you meant by being "sold out" ... You should have invested more faith in yourself than the government or anything else as far as securing the American Dream.

.

 

[sealybobo]

Bush and the GOP before they lost power in 2006 passed laws giving countries tax breaks if they moved their operations out of the country.

The GOP drafted NAFTA. Only reason Clinton signed it is because hw bush lost his re election. It was a done deal.

Are you an isolationist? I agree we should have protected our vital manufacturing base but you guys said Americans want too much.

Keep in mind union companies moved to Mexico India and China, not Texas. Why?

It is pretty foolish to think that the GOP or Democrats can fix the problems in South America when they cannot even keep manufacturing here in the States.
As much grandstanding as our political parties do concerning NAFTA and other trade agreements ... We are not the ones making better conditions in South American countries when that occurs.

It is the corporations that move there and develop the surround areas and resources that benefit the countries.

Plus ... Environmentalism, sustainability, good manufacturing processes, employee safety and community resource development are not mysteries anymore.
The countries know about these initiatives and their benefits ... The policies and procedures are already vetted and proven in more developed countries.
South American countries that are interested in developing ... Have a blue-print in place for better methods.
These things are usually required as part of any business agreement between incoming corporations and developing countries.

Edit:
In maybe the shortest way possible to explain the major benefit ...
Corporations and businesses that want to make profits are more interested in countries who are eager to help them ... Than they are interested in countries looking for more ways to punish or handicap them.

Sometimes it is really that simple!


.

But, it's the American corporations and business community that fund election campaigns. Businesses look for the cheapest labor, the fewest amount of rules and regulations, and the ease of export/import. We ( corporate America ) actually LOVE foreign economic environments. And, since we basically have free and open trade, who can blame corporate America for taking advantage of a sweet arrangement? We sacrifice our economic well-being in favor of strengthening foreign economies.

Why do you call them American corporations? Corporations have no boundaries. They are international corporations.

 

[sealybobo]

Actually I heard a Republican author the other day that pointed out that while free trade has hurt the masses in America it has brought billions of non Americans out of poverty.

Mexico, every other s. American country we do free trade with in south america including Cuba and Columbia now, India, china, Africa.

If you mean you'd prefer a dog eat dog world of winners and losers that produces a small rich and merchant class and the masses are poor vs our way where theres a small poor and rich class but the masses are middle class?

NO, I do NOT mean anything of the such, and never implied such nonsense.
Just curious, what would be wrong with fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade agreements and policies?

We should help good 3rd world nations if they plan on using their prosperity to lift their citizens out of poverty and if they have something to trade.

FYI -- Charity starts at home. Why should we help foreign economies before we help our own? Why should we spend hard earned American tax dollars abroad before spending them here to stabilize our own economy? What would be wrong with putting Americans back to work, producing what America uses and consumes? Why sacrifice our own economic well-being in order to strengthen foreign economies? Do American taxpayers want their tax dollars spent elsewhere to assist others, while America experiences economic hardships? Do we elect representatives to serve us, or do we elect them to serve the world, and place America last on the priority list?

Please answer all questions honestly. Thanks.

We did it because corporations and the rich wanted us to.

Do you suppose that the anti-America professional politicians seated in Washington had anything to do with it? Would you guess that our government is bought and paid for by the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential? Or, do you believe that corporate America did it all on their own, wrote their own trade agreements and policies, and cut Washington out of the picture?

Agreed. So why do you blame the middle class and poor?

 

[Sonny Clark]

The WHOLE country has been sold out, not just me. I don't depend on government, nor corporations for anything. I think that you totally misunderstand by use of "sold out".

That wouldn't be the whole country ... I am part of this country at the moment and haven't been sold out.
Of course I never made an investment in the government or implied societal concerns after my military service (which taught me what I needed to know).
The only way you or anyone else could be "sold out" ... Is if you expected something (anything) from someone else.

I understand what you meant by being "sold out" ... You should have invested more faith in yourself than the government or anything else as far as securing the American Dream.

.

You have totally misunderstood me, obviously. I am NOT talking about investments

The WHOLE country has been sold out, not just me. I don't depend on government, nor corporations for anything. I think that you totally misunderstand by use of "sold out".

That wouldn't be the whole country ... I am part of this country at the moment and haven't been sold out.
Of course I never made an investment in the government or implied societal concerns after my military service (which thankfully taught me what I needed to know).
The only way you or anyone else could be "sold out" ... Is if you expected something (anything) from someone else.

I understand what you meant by being "sold out" ... You should have invested more faith in yourself than the government or anything else as far as securing the American Dream.

.

Where in this world did investments come into this conversation? I have said absolutely nothing about investments. I haven't implied anything about investments. Investments is the least of our worries.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Bush and the GOP before they lost power in 2006 passed laws giving countries tax breaks if they moved their operations out of the country.

The GOP drafted NAFTA. Only reason Clinton signed it is because hw bush lost his re election. It was a done deal.

Are you an isolationist? I agree we should have protected our vital manufacturing base but you guys said Americans want too much.

Keep in mind union companies moved to Mexico India and China, not Texas. Why?

It is pretty foolish to think that the GOP or Democrats can fix the problems in South America when they cannot even keep manufacturing here in the States.
As much grandstanding as our political parties do concerning NAFTA and other trade agreements ... We are not the ones making better conditions in South American countries when that occurs.

It is the corporations that move there and develop the surround areas and resources that benefit the countries.

Plus ... Environmentalism, sustainability, good manufacturing processes, employee safety and community resource development are not mysteries anymore.
The countries know about these initiatives and their benefits ... The policies and procedures are already vetted and proven in more developed countries.
South American countries that are interested in developing ... Have a blue-print in place for better methods.
These things are usually required as part of any business agreement between incoming corporations and developing countries.

Edit:
In maybe the shortest way possible to explain the major benefit ...
Corporations and businesses that want to make profits are more interested in countries who are eager to help them ... Than they are interested in countries looking for more ways to punish or handicap them.

Sometimes it is really that simple!


.

But, it's the American corporations and business community that fund election campaigns. Businesses look for the cheapest labor, the fewest amount of rules and regulations, and the ease of export/import. We ( corporate America ) actually LOVE foreign economic environments. And, since we basically have free and open trade, who can blame corporate America for taking advantage of a sweet arrangement? We sacrifice our economic well-being in favor of strengthening foreign economies.

Why do you call them American corporations? Corporations have no boundaries. They are international corporations.

Go back and READ. I have said that many corporation are either almost entirely owned by foreign interests, or partially owned by foreign interest. Please, go back and read what I have said. Thanks.

 

[Sonny Clark]

NO, I do NOT mean anything of the such, and never implied such nonsense.
Just curious, what would be wrong with fair, equal, and balanced foreign trade agreements and policies?

We should help good 3rd world nations if they plan on using their prosperity to lift their citizens out of poverty and if they have something to trade.

FYI -- Charity starts at home. Why should we help foreign economies before we help our own? Why should we spend hard earned American tax dollars abroad before spending them here to stabilize our own economy? What would be wrong with putting Americans back to work, producing what America uses and consumes? Why sacrifice our own economic well-being in order to strengthen foreign economies? Do American taxpayers want their tax dollars spent elsewhere to assist others, while America experiences economic hardships? Do we elect representatives to serve us, or do we elect them to serve the world, and place America last on the priority list?

Please answer all questions honestly. Thanks.

We did it because corporations and the rich wanted us to.

Do you suppose that the anti-America professional politicians seated in Washington had anything to do with it? Would you guess that our government is bought and paid for by the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential? Or, do you believe that corporate America did it all on their own, wrote their own trade agreements and policies, and cut Washington out of the picture?

Agreed. So why do you blame the middle class and poor?

Where have I ever said that I blame the Middle Class or the poor? I have never said such, nor implied such.

 

[sealybobo]

The WHOLE country has been sold out, not just me. I don't depend on government, nor corporations for anything. I think that you totally misunderstand by use of "sold out".

That wouldn't be the whole country ... I am part of this country at the moment and haven't been sold out.
Of course I never made an investment in the government or implied societal concerns after my military service (which thankfully taught me what I needed to know).
The only way you or anyone else could be "sold out" ... Is if you expected something (anything) from someone else.

I understand what you meant by being "sold out" ... You should have invested more faith in yourself than the government or anything else as far as securing the American Dream.

.

What would you be without that 4 years the government took you in and gave you a job. And they didn't draft you, you chose to be on the government tit for 4 years and get a free degree and access to government benefits like the va.

We respect and appreciate you putting aside your hatred of socialism to take a socialist government service Jon in the public sector.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Common core will prevent Americans from being smart enough to get on a plane and fix anything. India will be trained to fix whatever needs fixing.

And corporations here do pay taxes. More than their share, but we keep demanding more and more, and demonize those 1%ers. We declared war on the very people that used to hire us. How stupid.

Ohio is offering tax breaks for 10 years and businesses are hanging their hats in Ohio. And hiring people to help them run their businesses. Those people spend their paychecks at the local restaurants and flower shops, and markets.
Businesses appreciate the relationship so they build a nice big park and indoor pool for the community. It is a much better scenario for everyone involved.
Socialism is a scourge that steals everything you own. Ask the socialist. Bernie wants 99%.
You will never see a 99% return.

 

[BlackSand]

Where in this world did investments come into this conversation? I have said absolutely nothing about investments. I haven't implied anything about investments. Investments is the least of our worries.

Any effort, attention, money, vote, agreement, understanding, acceptance, compliance or action that supports an idea, government, organization, group, person or other enity is an investment of resources, energy, money, or effort.

For me to answer your post ... Is an "investment" in the possibility that you may understand the response.

.

 

[sealybobo]

We should help good 3rd world nations if they plan on using their prosperity to lift their citizens out of poverty and if they have something to trade.

FYI -- Charity starts at home. Why should we help foreign economies before we help our own? Why should we spend hard earned American tax dollars abroad before spending them here to stabilize our own economy? What would be wrong with putting Americans back to work, producing what America uses and consumes? Why sacrifice our own economic well-being in order to strengthen foreign economies? Do American taxpayers want their tax dollars spent elsewhere to assist others, while America experiences economic hardships? Do we elect representatives to serve us, or do we elect them to serve the world, and place America last on the priority list?

Please answer all questions honestly. Thanks.

We did it because corporations and the rich wanted us to.

Do you suppose that the anti-America professional politicians seated in Washington had anything to do with it? Would you guess that our government is bought and paid for by the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential? Or, do you believe that corporate America did it all on their own, wrote their own trade agreements and policies, and cut Washington out of the picture?

Agreed. So why do you blame the middle class and poor?

Where have I ever said that I blame the Middle Class or the poor? I have never said such, nor implied such.

Republicans blame the overpaid American worker. The middle class. Too many of us make too much. They say we are why corporations go to Mexico or china.

 

[Sonny Clark]

The WHOLE country has been sold out, not just me. I don't depend on government, nor corporations for anything. I think that you totally misunderstand by use of "sold out".

That wouldn't be the whole country ... I am part of this country at the moment and haven't been sold out.
Of course I never made an investment in the government or implied societal concerns after my military service (which thankfully taught me what I needed to know).
The only way you or anyone else could be "sold out" ... Is if you expected something (anything) from someone else.

I understand what you meant by being "sold out" ... You should have invested more faith in yourself than the government or anything else as far as securing the American Dream.

.

What would you be without that 4 years the government took you in and gave you a job. And they didn't draft you, you chose to be on the government tit for 4 years and get a free degree and access to government benefits like the va.

We respect and appreciate you putting aside your hatred of socialism to take a socialist government service Jon in the public sector.

Bullshit. I was drafted in 1966. You know absolutely nothing about me, nor my military service. The government didn't give me shit. I have never ever used my VA benefits. You're full of shit. Have we ever met in person? Do you know my background? Do you know anything about my personal life? If so, how do you know it?