Can someone making $1 million a year afford a 5.87% tax increase?

[Redfish]

Indentured servants weren't taxed as highly as the average American taxpayer

Indentured servants don't have the freedom to quit their jobs.

How do you force indentured servants to work their jobs? Whips, chains, starvation, torture? Is that your plan to force us to pay for your welfare? Whips, chains, starvation, torture?

Their "plan" is for the govt to have the power to take money from your bank account, investment account, etc.

Because if you have money, you are evil and must be punished for the "common good"

 

[Derideo_Te]

Indentured servants weren't taxed as highly as the average American taxpayer

Indentured servants don't have the freedom to quit their jobs.

Right, americans can go on unemployment and food stamps if they get pissed at their boss. And you think this is a good thing?

You can't claim unemployment if you quit your job!

 

[Derideo_Te]

Indentured servants weren't taxed as highly as the average American taxpayer

Indentured servants don't have the freedom to quit their jobs.

How do you force indentured servants to work their jobs? Whips, chains, starvation, torture? Is that your plan to force us to pay for your welfare? Whips, chains, starvation, torture?

You are the one alleging that taxation equals slavery so the onus remains on you to tell us exactly how you are being "oppressed".

 

[Redfish]

Indentured servants don't have the freedom to quit their jobs.

Right, americans can go on unemployment and food stamps if they get pissed at their boss. And you think this is a good thing?

You can't claim unemployment if you quit your job!

true, so you just find a reason to get fired or laid off. Its a game.

 

[Ernie S.]

Social Security proposals are wrongheaded - The Washington Post

For someone earning $1 million, the tax increase would be $58,700.

The options are keeping Social Security solvent or allowing those making $1 million a year to keep 5.87% of their pre-tax earnings.

Seems like a small enough increase for the long term benefit of the nation to a fiscal conservative like myself. And yes, I will personally pay more in taxes if this passes. But having a stable future for this nation means more to me than this paltry amount. If anything it is cheap at the price.

What is even more attractive is that it is a flat tax, something that fiscal conservatives have been advocating for ever since the Reagan era.

Besides the kneejerk opposition to any tax increase what are the legitimate objections to a reasonable and effective solution of this modest nature?

What added value do I get for my $58,700?

I get it! I make more money than you do. I want to buy a new F 350 pick-up, lets say you want the exact same vehicle. Should I pay 5.87% more than you? Why

 

[bripat9643]

Taxation = slavery!

Of course it does, moron. Do you imagine that taxation is voluntary?

Please explain exactly how you are "bound in servitude as the property" of the US government.

Obviously, the government feels entitled to take whatever I earn. That's how you treat a serf.

 

[bripat9643]

Indentured servants don't have the freedom to quit their jobs.

How do you force indentured servants to work their jobs? Whips, chains, starvation, torture? Is that your plan to force us to pay for your welfare? Whips, chains, starvation, torture?

You are the one alleging that taxation equals slavery so the onus remains on you to tell us exactly how you are being "oppressed".

So you think people enjoy paying taxes? Do you enjoy it when a thief takes your money?

 

[bripat9643]

Indentured servants weren't taxed as highly as the average American taxpayer

Indentured servants don't have the freedom to quit their jobs.

So the option of unemployment is your conception of freedom?

 

[RKMBrown]

Indentured servants don't have the freedom to quit their jobs.

How do you force indentured servants to work their jobs? Whips, chains, starvation, torture? Is that your plan to force us to pay for your welfare? Whips, chains, starvation, torture?

You are the one alleging that taxation equals slavery so the onus remains on you to tell us exactly how you are being "oppressed".

By having months on months of my labor taken from me by force, said labor stolen against my will for the purpose of funding hand-outs to individuals and hand picked corporations in the form of crony capitalism, in spite of my disapproval of hand-out programs and said cronyism. Said hand-outs in turn oppressing not just the people forced to fund the hand-outs but also the people voting for and receiving said hand-outs. In short the destruction of my country one family group at a time, one industry at a time, through forced conscription into these vile despicable democrat/republican redistribution plans.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Social Security proposals are wrongheaded - The Washington Post

For someone earning $1 million, the tax increase would be $58,700.

The options are keeping Social Security solvent or allowing those making $1 million a year to keep 5.87% of their pre-tax earnings.

Seems like a small enough increase for the long term benefit of the nation to a fiscal conservative like myself. And yes, I will personally pay more in taxes if this passes. But having a stable future for this nation means more to me than this paltry amount. If anything it is cheap at the price.

What is even more attractive is that it is a flat tax, something that fiscal conservatives have been advocating for ever since the Reagan era.

Besides the kneejerk opposition to any tax increase what are the legitimate objections to a reasonable and effective solution of this modest nature?

What added value do I get for my $58,700?

I get it! I make more money than you do. I want to buy a new F 350 pick-up, lets say you want the exact same vehicle. Should I pay 5.87% more than you? Why

Taxes and purchases are not the same thing. The price of goods are determined by the manufacturer. The amount of taxes owed depends upon the income of the individual.

 

[RKMBrown]

Social Security proposals are wrongheaded - The Washington Post



The options are keeping Social Security solvent or allowing those making $1 million a year to keep 5.87% of their pre-tax earnings.

Seems like a small enough increase for the long term benefit of the nation to a fiscal conservative like myself. And yes, I will personally pay more in taxes if this passes. But having a stable future for this nation means more to me than this paltry amount. If anything it is cheap at the price.

What is even more attractive is that it is a flat tax, something that fiscal conservatives have been advocating for ever since the Reagan era.

Besides the kneejerk opposition to any tax increase what are the legitimate objections to a reasonable and effective solution of this modest nature?

What added value do I get for my $58,700?

I get it! I make more money than you do. I want to buy a new F 350 pick-up, lets say you want the exact same vehicle. Should I pay 5.87% more than you? Why

Taxes and purchases are not the same thing. The price of goods are determined by the manufacturer. The amount of taxes owed depends upon the income of the individual.

>>> The price of goods are determined by the manufacturer.

ROFL, there's the problem. You have no clue even how prices are set for products, let alone where the money goes.

>> The amount of taxes owed depends upon the income of the individual.

ROFL. More than just a little naive aren't you?

 

[Derideo_Te]

How do you force indentured servants to work their jobs? Whips, chains, starvation, torture? Is that your plan to force us to pay for your welfare? Whips, chains, starvation, torture?

You are the one alleging that taxation equals slavery so the onus remains on you to tell us exactly how you are being "oppressed".

By having months on months of my labor taken from me by force, said labor stolen against my will for the purpose of funding hand-outs to individuals and hand picked corporations in the form of crony capitalism, in spite of my disapproval of hand-out programs and said cronyism. Said hand-outs in turn oppressing not just the people forced to fund the hand-outs but also the people voting for and receiving said hand-outs. In short the destruction of my country one family group at a time, one industry at a time, through forced conscription into these vile despicable democrat/republican redistribution plans.

How exactly is your "labor taken by force"?

How exactly is your labor "stolen against my will"?

Do you drive on public roads? Are you "forced against your will" to drive on public roads?

Do you buy food? Are you "forced against your will" to buy food that has been inspected to ensure that it is safe for you to eat?

Do you take any medications? Are you "forced against your will" to take medications that have been tested to ensure that they are safe for you to use?

Do you purchase toys for your children/grandchildren? Are you "forced against your will" to purchase toys that won't harm your children/grandchildren?

Do you fly to vacation spots? Are you "forced against your will" to fly on aircraft that have been inspected as safe to fly?

So how is all of the above oppressing you? Do you believe that you should just be handed all of the above at zero cost to yourself? Since you live here you obviously benefit from all of the above but somehow you are selfish enough to believe that you should have all of the above and not pay a single dime for any of it.

 

[Ernie S.]

Social Security proposals are wrongheaded - The Washington Post



The options are keeping Social Security solvent or allowing those making $1 million a year to keep 5.87% of their pre-tax earnings.

Seems like a small enough increase for the long term benefit of the nation to a fiscal conservative like myself. And yes, I will personally pay more in taxes if this passes. But having a stable future for this nation means more to me than this paltry amount. If anything it is cheap at the price.

What is even more attractive is that it is a flat tax, something that fiscal conservatives have been advocating for ever since the Reagan era.

Besides the kneejerk opposition to any tax increase what are the legitimate objections to a reasonable and effective solution of this modest nature?

What added value do I get for my $58,700?

I get it! I make more money than you do. I want to buy a new F 350 pick-up, lets say you want the exact same vehicle. Should I pay 5.87% more than you? Why

Taxes and purchases are not the same thing. The price of goods are determined by the manufacturer. The amount of taxes owed depends upon the income of the individual.

Nice side-step. I, and I'm sure you, want value from our expenditures.

Again! What do I get in return for my $58,700?

If I pay twice the taxes you do, do I get twice the services? Do I get an extra vote on election day?
I mean, shit! A guy making a million a year is already paying around a quarter million and a guy making 50K is paying < 12K. Does the first guy get 20 times the food stamps? Free cheese? Free housing? Can he expect to get 20 times the Social Security benefit at 65?

With a decent accountant our $1,000,000/year (salary) guy will pay about $250,000 in taxes. If he gave that much to the DNC, he'd be the Ambassador to the Cayman Islands or at least a frequent guest in the Lincoln Bedroom. What does he get from the IRS?

 

[iMac]

You are the one alleging that taxation equals slavery so the onus remains on you to tell us exactly how you are being "oppressed".

By having months on months of my labor taken from me by force, said labor stolen against my will for the purpose of funding hand-outs to individuals and hand picked corporations in the form of crony capitalism, in spite of my disapproval of hand-out programs and said cronyism. Said hand-outs in turn oppressing not just the people forced to fund the hand-outs but also the people voting for and receiving said hand-outs. In short the destruction of my country one family group at a time, one industry at a time, through forced conscription into these vile despicable democrat/republican redistribution plans.

How exactly is your "labor taken by force"?

How exactly is your labor "stolen against my will"?

Do you drive on public roads? Are you "forced against your will" to drive on public roads?

Do you buy food? Are you "forced against your will" to buy food that has been inspected to ensure that it is safe for you to eat?

Do you take any medications? Are you "forced against your will" to take medications that have been tested to ensure that they are safe for you to use?

Do you purchase toys for your children/grandchildren? Are you "forced against your will" to purchase toys that won't harm your children/grandchildren?

Do you fly to vacation spots? Are you "forced against your will" to fly on aircraft that have been inspected as safe to fly?

So how is all of the above oppressing you? Do you believe that you should just be handed all of the above at zero cost to yourself? Since you live here you obviously benefit from all of the above but somehow you are selfish enough to believe that you should have all of the above and not pay a single dime for any of it.

All of your examples add up to about 1% of the budget.

And they do meet the definition of "the common good."

Everyone benefits from roads and airports and drug inspections.

But far more of the money that big government taxes and spends go to income redistribution in the form of welfare.

And that is theft of labor by liberals against hard working Americans.

 

[Ernie S.]

You are the one alleging that taxation equals slavery so the onus remains on you to tell us exactly how you are being "oppressed".

By having months on months of my labor taken from me by force, said labor stolen against my will for the purpose of funding hand-outs to individuals and hand picked corporations in the form of crony capitalism, in spite of my disapproval of hand-out programs and said cronyism. Said hand-outs in turn oppressing not just the people forced to fund the hand-outs but also the people voting for and receiving said hand-outs. In short the destruction of my country one family group at a time, one industry at a time, through forced conscription into these vile despicable democrat/republican redistribution plans.

How exactly is your "labor taken by force"?

How exactly is your labor "stolen against my will"?

Do you drive on public roads? Are you "forced against your will" to drive on public roads?

Yup. But I don't drive 20 times as far or drive a car that weighs 20 times what your mini does.

Do you buy food? Are you "forced against your will" to buy food that has been inspected to ensure that it is safe for you to eat?

Of course I buy food. I eat about the same amount and pay the same prices for it everyone else does. My meat has not been inspected 20 times as often or competently.

Do you take any medications? Are you "forced against your will" to take medications that have been tested to ensure that they are safe for you to use?

My wife takes 7 prescriptions. Fairly average for a woman her age with her health issues. Her pills are not gold plated. They don't come with any added value, no free opera tickets.

Do you purchase toys for your children/grandchildren? Are you "forced against your will" to purchase toys that won't harm your children/grandchildren?

Yup same toys as you do, subject to the same standards. Chances are, the toys I buy are of higher quality and actually need less scrutiny.

Do you fly to vacation spots? Are you "forced against your will" to fly on aircraft that have been inspected as safe to fly?

Occasionally I fly. I'll be just as dead as you if we crash. As a matter of fact, we, in first class will die first.

So how is all of the above oppressing you? Do you believe that you should just be handed all of the above at zero cost to yourself? Since you live here you obviously benefit from all of the above but somehow you are selfish enough to believe that you should have all of the above and not pay a single dime for any of it.

At zero cost??? For Christ's sake guy! Even if we all paid taxes at a flat rate, the guy making $1,000,000/year is already paying 20 times the taxes that the $50,000/year guy pays for the exact same services except for the free cheese


In answer to your question above:

 

[Derideo_Te]

What added value do I get for my $58,700?

I get it! I make more money than you do. I want to buy a new F 350 pick-up, lets say you want the exact same vehicle. Should I pay 5.87% more than you? Why

Taxes and purchases are not the same thing. The price of goods are determined by the manufacturer. The amount of taxes owed depends upon the income of the individual.

>>> The price of goods are determined by the manufacturer.

ROFL, there's the problem. You have no clue even how prices are set for products, let alone where the money goes.

>> The amount of taxes owed depends upon the income of the individual.

ROFL. More than just a little naive aren't you?

Ironic!

 

[Derideo_Te]

What added value do I get for my $58,700?

I get it! I make more money than you do. I want to buy a new F 350 pick-up, lets say you want the exact same vehicle. Should I pay 5.87% more than you? Why

Taxes and purchases are not the same thing. The price of goods are determined by the manufacturer. The amount of taxes owed depends upon the income of the individual.

Nice side-step. I, and I'm sure you, want value from our expenditures.

Again! What do I get in return for my $58,700?

If I pay twice the taxes you do, do I get twice the services? Do I get an extra vote on election day?
I mean, shit! A guy making a million a year is already paying around a quarter million and a guy making 50K is paying < 12K. Does the first guy get 20 times the food stamps? Free cheese? Free housing? Can he expect to get 20 times the Social Security benefit at 65?

With a decent accountant our $1,000,000/year (salary) guy will pay about $250,000 in taxes. If he gave that much to the DNC, he'd be the Ambassador to the Cayman Islands or at least a frequent guest in the Lincoln Bedroom. What does he get from the IRS?

Taxes are not expenditures. But if you want to look at it that way then yes, those that pay higher tax rates do have a great deal more access to their representatives than those that don't.

 

[Derideo_Te]

By having months on months of my labor taken from me by force, said labor stolen against my will for the purpose of funding hand-outs to individuals and hand picked corporations in the form of crony capitalism, in spite of my disapproval of hand-out programs and said cronyism. Said hand-outs in turn oppressing not just the people forced to fund the hand-outs but also the people voting for and receiving said hand-outs. In short the destruction of my country one family group at a time, one industry at a time, through forced conscription into these vile despicable democrat/republican redistribution plans.

How exactly is your "labor taken by force"?

How exactly is your labor "stolen against my will"?

Do you drive on public roads? Are you "forced against your will" to drive on public roads?

Yup. But I don't drive 20 times as far or drive a car that weighs 20 times what your mini does.
Of course I buy food. I eat about the same amount and pay the same prices for it everyone else does. My meat has not been inspected 20 times as often or competently.

My wife takes 7 prescriptions. Fairly average for a woman her age with her health issues. Her pills are not gold plated. They don't come with any added value, no free opera tickets.

Yup same toys as you do, subject to the same standards. Chances are, the toys I buy are of higher quality and actually need less scrutiny.

Do you fly to vacation spots? Are you "forced against your will" to fly on aircraft that have been inspected as safe to fly?

Occasionally I fly. I'll be just as dead as you if we crash. As a matter of fact, we, in first class will die first.

So how is all of the above oppressing you? Do you believe that you should just be handed all of the above at zero cost to yourself? Since you live here you obviously benefit from all of the above but somehow you are selfish enough to believe that you should have all of the above and not pay a single dime for any of it.

At zero cost??? For Christ's sake guy! Even if we all paid taxes at a flat rate, the guy making $1,000,000/year is already paying 20 times the taxes that the $50,000/year guy pays for the exact same services except for the free cheese


In answer to your question above:

So are you advocating a society where the upper class gets preferential treatment by the government?

BTW my eyesight is not what it used it be but that is photoshopped. The 2nd guy in line has a badge that says "POLICE" and the shield is curved while the writing is dead flat.

 

[OnePercenter]

Wrong question. The right question is do you have the right to take the money that somebody else has earned regardless of whether they can afford it or not.

I would say no.

The real question: Should people making $1M/year pay the same effective tax rate as people making less than $1M?

Too bad those mean rich people pay a higher rate. Bastards!

This 'mean rich people' paid 3% effective last year. Good News! For 2013, I'll make 5M more and pay less effective! Pretty sweet deal!

 

[RKMBrown]

How exactly is your "labor taken by force"?

Personal income tax.

How exactly is your labor "stolen against my will"?

My labor is stolen against my will through involuntary personal income tax.

Do you drive on public roads? Are you "forced against your will" to drive on public roads?

No and no. I drive only on toll roads funded by voluntary tolls and private roads built with voluntary real-estate and voluntary sales taxes.

Do you buy food? Are you "forced against your will" to buy food that has been inspected to ensure that it is safe for you to eat?

Yes I eat. Yes I am forced against my will to buy food that has supposedly been inspected, supposedly for my own benefit.

Do you take any medications? Are you "forced against your will" to take medications that have been tested to ensure that they are safe for you to use?

No I don't currently take any medications. Yes I have been forced against my will to take medications that have supposedly been tested to supposedly ensure that they are safe for my use. Specifically, I was forced to take Hepatitis shots when I traveled to India. Additionally, there are a plethora of inoculation shots forced onto the American public.

Do you purchase toys for your children/grandchildren? Are you "forced against your will" to purchase toys that won't harm your children/grandchildren?

Yes I purchase products. Yes I'm forced to buy cell phones for moochers that are also supposedly tested to ensure they won't harm children.

Do you fly to vacation spots? Are you "forced against your will" to fly on aircraft that have been inspected as safe to fly?

Yes. Yes, when flying, I am forced to select only from aircraft the have supposedly been inspected as supposedly safe to fly.

So how is all of the above oppressing you? Do you believe that you should just be handed all of the above at zero cost to yourself? Since you live here you obviously benefit from all of the above but somehow you are selfish enough to believe that you should have all of the above and not pay a single dime for any of it.

See above answers as to the how. I do not believe in the Troll's fallacy that I have to pay a toll to cross a bridge because the Troll is securing the bridge. I don't mind voluntarily paying for a police force to provide said protection. There is a marked difference between living in a police state, and having police work for the community to keep the peace. Same goes for welfare, if I'm gonna provide charity I want it to be voluntary charity and for hand-ups, said acts of charity being mutually beneficial to the giver and receiver. A TROLL taking my money against my will then using it for handouts and buying votes is neither charity nor is it beneficial for either of the parties, though I can see how the Troll benefits.

Government's job should be to defend us from the Trolls not be the Troll.