Can Obamacare be Fixed?

[PMZ]

Wow. The hypocrisy of this is stunning. It's hard to tell, online like this, if you're actually typing that with a straight face. Can you really sit there defending a law that forces all of us into the corporate insurance pens as unwilling customers, and claim that the people who don't want to play along are serving corporate interests???

I don't want to pay for your healthcare if you can afford it yourself. The question is, why do you want me to?

I've been very clear that I don't.

Great. Assuming that you are a responsible person, you'll insure against all of the possibilities that could cause you to be unable to pay your medical bills.

That means that the only impact of ACA on you is the benefit of an Internet tool to help you shop for the best deal.

 

[dblack]

I don't want to pay for your healthcare if you can afford it yourself. The question is, why do you want me to?

I've been very clear that I don't.

Great. Assuming that you are a responsible person, you'll insure against all of the possibilities that could cause you to be unable to pay your medical bills.

Nope. You're assuming that the only way to be responsible is to carry health insurance - indeed, to carry the government's idea of 'adequate' health insurance. That's a completely unfounded assumption. First, it's not true that insurance is the only way to pay for health care, and second, it's not true that if someone can't afford health care it will impose on you. You're assuming guilt, and insisting that people who pose no threat to you whatsoever 'prove' their innocence by carrying an arbitrary amount of insurance coverage.

 

[PMZ]

I've been very clear that I don't.

Great. Assuming that you are a responsible person, you'll insure against all of the possibilities that could cause you to be unable to pay your medical bills.

Nope. You're assuming that the only way to be responsible is to carry health insurance - indeed, to carry the government's idea of 'adequate' health insurance. That's a completely unfounded assumption. First, it's not true that insurance is the only way to pay for health care, and second, it's not true that if someone can't afford health care it will impose on you. You're assuming guilt, and insisting that people who pose no threat to you whatsoever 'prove' their innocence by carrying an arbitrary amount of insurance coverage.

Yes. that's a practical solution to a real problem. There are many who have no problem at all forwarding their healthcare bills to others even though they can afford their own coverage. They just don't think that it will happen to them, but it does, all of the time.

 

[PMZ]

Conservatives and libertarians worry about their freedom to do what they want to do. They feel that anything but minimal government will limit their freedom to do.

But the main reason for laws and government is to establish consequences for imposing on others.

Which creates the most freedom?

Freedom to do, was maximized in cave man days. We didn't like that so mankind instituted laws so that law enforcement, not personal weapons, insured freedom from the impositions of others.

I think that going back to the caves and jungle that we left would be figuratively and literally a big step backward.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Conservatives and libertarians worry about their freedom to do what they want to do. They feel that anything but minimal government will limit their freedom to do.

But the main reason for laws and government is to establish consequences for imposing on others.

Which creates the most freedom?

Freedom to do, was maximized in cave man days. We didn't like that so mankind instituted laws so that law enforcement, not personal weapons, insured freedom from the impositions of others.

I think that going back to the caves and jungle that we left would be figuratively and literally a big step backward.

 

[Bern80]

I don't want to pay for your healthcare if you can afford it yourself. The question is, why do you want me to?

I've been very clear that I don't.

Great. Assuming that you are a responsible person, you'll insure against all of the possibilities that could cause you to be unable to pay your medical bills.

That means that the only impact of ACA on you is the benefit of an Internet tool to help you shop for the best deal.

No. If I'm a reasonable person owning an insurance company I will provide coverages for what my customers ask to be covered for.

The impact of the ACA is being reported on a daily basis. Hundreds of thousands of plans that don't qualify being cancelled and rising premiums and deductibles. THAT is the impact of Obamacare, but you go ahead a stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not happening.

 

[Bern80]

"Freedom" doesn't mean "free for all". It is a subtle concept, apparantly. The conservative position is the one most corruptable by the sociopathic, narcisistic personality. At the extreme, it plays out as freedom in their minds while what they are really ascribing to is anarchy and some sort of tyrany.

The hippies tried it in the 60's and most soon found out that it came to am equilobro where one guy had all the pot and chicks. It doesn't lead where they fantasize it will.

It is the same reason Soviet socialism never lead to communism. The people in power will never give it up. (That and planmed economies only work on small scales. Like the military.)

Truth is, Democracy is a much better direction as long as it doesn't devolve to corporatism, our current problem.

The difference betweem Socialist China amd the US is in China, the govt owns the big corporations where in the US the big corporations own the govt.

The problem will never be solved by the right wing perception because their rules don't reflect reality. They don't even understand how the money supply functions. I'm not sure the majority of politicians on either side of the isle do. And as long as the mechanics of the money supply aren't understood, every manner of fiscal policy and republican meme will just screw things up. At least the Dems stumble in the right direction.

Business pays for propaganda that says, distrust government, they'll steal your freedom.

Why? Government is the only force limiting corporate power.

They know that we hire and fire government but have no say, except for government, over business.

The corporate coup. The harvesting of America.

Wrong. In a free market the consumer and press are supposed to be the group responsible for limiting corporate power. Nothing, on the other hand, limits the power of government. In our country the only reason it is limited is our constitution and even that has not been very strictly adhered to.

 

[PMZ]

Conservatives and libertarians worry about their freedom to do what they want to do. They feel that anything but minimal government will limit their freedom to do.

But the main reason for laws and government is to establish consequences for imposing on others.

Which creates the most freedom?

Freedom to do, was maximized in cave man days. We didn't like that so mankind instituted laws so that law enforcement, not personal weapons, insured freedom from the impositions of others.

I think that going back to the caves and jungle that we left would be figuratively and literally a big step backward.

I don't think that Ben was defending the law of the jungle. Might makes right. The cave man creed.

The need to limit criminals from imposing what's best for them on responsible people is a basic tennant of civilization. It's the basis for all of our laws.

Returning to lawlessness in these high tech overcrowded days, especially in a country like ours of extreme wealth inequality, would be the end of civilization.