Can God be known?

[buttercup]

Is God knowable? On another thread the other day someone stated that God cannot be known. His exact words were: “You can't know God; you can only know God's creation.” I’ve never seen a thread on this topic before, so instead of replying to him on the other thread, I figured I’d start a new one.

So, is God knowable?

I’ll give my answer to the question, but feel free to correct me if you think I’m wrong! I’m basing my answer on what the scriptures say, as well as common sense and self-evident truths.

I think the answer to the question is yes and no.

From a biblical perspective, the scriptures are clear that we can’t fully understand God, but at the same time, we can have a personal knowledge of God.

In other words, we can’t know God exhaustively, obviously that is beyond our human ability, but God is knowable.

Here are a few scriptures on the Incomprehensibility of God:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

​

Isaiah 55:8-9​

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;​

it is high; I cannot attain it.​

​

Psalm 139:6​

How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!​

How vast is the sum of them!​

If I would count them, they are more than the sand.​

I awake, and I am still with you.​

​

Psalm 139:17–18​

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power;​

his understanding is beyond measure.​

​

Psalm 147:5​

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!​

How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!​

​

“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”​

​

Romans 11:33-34​

There are many more, but I’m not going to write a book here.

There are also tons of scriptures on knowing God. Here are a few. (Bold added by me)

Thus says the Lord:​

​

“Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,​

Let not the mighty man glory in his might,​

Nor let the rich man glory in his riches;​

​

But let him who glories glory in this,​

That he understands and knows Me,​

That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.​

For in these I delight,” says the Lord.​

​

Jer. 9:23–24​

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,​

the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.​

​

Hosea 6:6​

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.​

​

John 17:3​

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true - even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.​

​

1 John 5:20​

For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.​

​

2 Timothy 1:12​

"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

​

Romans 1:19-21​

None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”​

​

Hebrews 8:11-12​

"...that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death"​

​

Phil 3:10​

"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.​

​

John 14:7​

As I said, I'm not basing this only on the scriptures. I think it's just common sense, as well. Ask yourself the question.... would a loving, good God want His own creation to seek and know Him? Of course, in the same way that a parent wants a relationship with their child, the Creator wants us to know and be reconciled to Him. What would be the point of creating us if He didn't want us to know Him?

The bottom line is, just because we can’t know EVERYTHING about God doesn’t mean that we can’t know anything. Not only is God knowable, but God WANTS us to seek and know Him.

If you disagree, please make your case!


PS: This is not a thread about the existence of God. So to the atheists here, I know you're always itching to change the topic into that, but that's not the debate here. The debate is: Is God knowable? So if you want to debate the existence of God, I'm sure there are probably hundreds of threads on that topic, or you can always start a new one. Thanks!

 

[MarathonMike]

I have always believed in the existence of 'God'. I also believe that God is not knowable although every civilization and religion attempts to explain God through their unique perspective. A primitive civilization for example might believe the Sun is God because it is the giver of light and life. Modern civilizations and religions know that is wrong, but their beliefs about God might not be any more accurate than the Sun God.

 

[buttercup]

I have always believed in the existence of 'God'. I also believe that God is not knowable although every civilization and religion attempts to explain God through their unique perspective. A primitive civilization for example might believe the Sun is God because it is the giver of light and life. Modern civilizations and religions know that is wrong, but their beliefs about God might not be any more accurate than the Sun God.

Thanks for your thoughts. Let me ask you something. Even if one is not a Christian (and therefore doesn't give any weight to the scriptures I posted above) wouldn't you agree that we can know some things about God's nature through creation?

For example, think of all the blessings in this world... things that bring happiness, pleasure, joy and wonder... wouldn't you say that those things show God's love for us and his desire for us to enjoy life?

 

[.oldschool]

The angel of the Lord is the closest you can get (in biblical terms).

 

[buttercup]

The angel of the Lord is the closest you can get (in biblical terms).

Hmm, just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying there are other ways, but that is the closest way? Just out of curiosity, are you coming from a Jewish perspective?

Because of course I don't expect Jewish believers to accept that Jesus is the way to know God. But from my perspective as a Christian, Jesus is indeed the best and closest you can get.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."

Colossians 1:15​

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 1:1, John 1:14​

Interestingly, some would say that the "Angel of the Lord" in the Old Testament was Jesus, the pre-incarnate Christ. But that's a different topic.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Jer

The angel of the Lord is the closest you can get (in biblical terms).

He walked along side Adam and Eve

 

[MarathonMike]

I have always believed in the existence of 'God'. I also believe that God is not knowable although every civilization and religion attempts to explain God through their unique perspective. A primitive civilization for example might believe the Sun is God because it is the giver of light and life. Modern civilizations and religions know that is wrong, but their beliefs about God might not be any more accurate than the Sun God.

Thanks for your thoughts. Let me ask you something. Even if one is not a Christian (and therefore doesn't give any weight to the scriptures I posted above) wouldn't you agree that we can know some things about God's nature through creation?

For example, think of all the blessings in this world... things that bring happiness, pleasure, joy and wonder... wouldn't you say that those things show God's love for us and his desire for us to enjoy life?

Yes I agree with that. As I've posted before I see God as a benevolent but non intervening power who loves what he has created.

 

[buttercup]

I have always believed in the existence of 'God'. I also believe that God is not knowable although every civilization and religion attempts to explain God through their unique perspective. A primitive civilization for example might believe the Sun is God because it is the giver of light and life. Modern civilizations and religions know that is wrong, but their beliefs about God might not be any more accurate than the Sun God.

Thanks for your thoughts. Let me ask you something. Even if one is not a Christian (and therefore doesn't give any weight to the scriptures I posted above) wouldn't you agree that we can know some things about God's nature through creation?

For example, think of all the blessings in this world... things that bring happiness, pleasure, joy and wonder... wouldn't you say that those things show God's love for us and his desire for us to enjoy life?

Yes I agree with that. As I've posted before I see God as a benevolent but non intervening power who loves what he has created.

Ah, ok. That sounds like deism. I partially agree. I believe that God is benevolent AND intervenes. Maybe not as often as we want, but it happens, I firmly believe that. I've seen it myself, first hand.

 

[BreezeWood]

Is God knowable? On another thread the other day someone stated that God cannot be known. His exact words were: “You can't know God; you can only know God's creation.” I’ve never seen a thread on this topic before, so instead of replying to him on the other thread, I figured I’d start a new one.

So, is God knowable?

I’ll give my answer to the question, but feel free to correct me if you think I’m wrong! I’m basing my answer on what the scriptures say, as well as common sense and self-evident truths.

I think the answer to the question is yes and no.

From a biblical perspective, the scriptures are clear that we can’t fully understand God, but at the same time, we can have a personal knowledge of God.

In other words, we can’t know God exhaustively, obviously that is beyond our human ability, but God is knowable.

Here are a few scriptures on the Incomprehensibility of God:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

​

Isaiah 55:8-9​

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;​

it is high; I cannot attain it.​

​

Psalm 139:6​

How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!​

How vast is the sum of them!​

If I would count them, they are more than the sand.​

I awake, and I am still with you.​

​

Psalm 139:17–18​

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power;​

his understanding is beyond measure.​

​

Psalm 147:5​

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!​

How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!​

​

“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”​

​

Romans 11:33-34​

There are many more, but I’m not going to write a book here.

There are also tons of scriptures on knowing God. Here are a few. (Bold added by me)

Thus says the Lord:​

​

“Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,​

Let not the mighty man glory in his might,​

Nor let the rich man glory in his riches;​

​

But let him who glories glory in this,​

That he understands and knows Me,​

That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.​

For in these I delight,” says the Lord.​

​

Jer. 9:23–24​

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,​

the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.​

​

Hosea 6:6​

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.​

​

John 17:3​

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true - even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.​

​

1 John 5:20​

For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.​

​

2 Timothy 1:12​

"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

​

Romans 1:19-21​

None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”​

​

Hebrews 8:11-12​

"...that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death"​

​

Phil 3:10​

"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.​

​

John 14:7​

As I said, I'm not basing this only on the scriptures. I think it's just common sense, as well. Ask yourself the question.... would a loving, good God want His own creation to seek and know Him? Of course, in the same way that a parent wants a relationship with their child, the Creator wants us to know and be reconciled to Him. What would be the point of creating us if He didn't want us to know Him?

The bottom line is, just because we can’t know EVERYTHING about God doesn’t mean that we can’t know anything. Not only is God knowable, but God WANTS us to seek and know Him.

If you disagree, please make your case!


PS: This is not a thread about the existence of God. So to the atheists here, I know you're always itching to change the topic into that, but that's not the debate here. The debate is: Is God knowable? So if you want to debate the existence of God, I'm sure there are probably hundreds of threads on that topic, or you can always start a new one. Thanks!

.

In other words, we can’t know God exhaustively, obviously that is beyond our human ability, but God is knowable ...

Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. ...

.
so modest, yet abandoning the opening prologue for the desert religions seems a bit strenuous for what must be your interpretation for the rest of those books. is there, really, anything you can understand.

 

[.oldschool]

Hmm, just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying there are other ways, but that is the closest way? Just out of curiosity, are you coming from a Jewish perspective?

This is the only way. I used Jewish terminology because that is the basis of Christianity.
I am not Jewish, and could reply using other religious texts. It is not easy to discern spiritual knowledge but it is there.

https://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380651/jewish/Neshamah-Levels-of-Soul-Consciousness.htm

 

[buttercup]

Hmm, just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying there are other ways, but that is the closest way? Just out of curiosity, are you coming from a Jewish perspective?

This is the only way. I used Jewish terminology because that is the basis of Christianity.
I am not Jewish, and could reply using other religious texts. It is not easy to discern spiritual knowledge but it is there.

https://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380651/jewish/Neshamah-Levels-of-Soul-Consciousness.htm

Thanks for clarifying that. I disagree. I mean, even if we completely disregard the New Testament, the Old Testament also shows that there is more than one way to know God. Creation, for example. And there are other ways, as well.

I'll check out that link. Thanks!

 

[onefour1]

I believe that part of the reason God has placed us here on this earth is to test us to see if we will have faith in him. What is faith?

Hebrews 11:1
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Ether 12:6
6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.

Perhaps God wants us, to a certain degree, to choose good not because we know He exists, but because we, in and of ourselves, desire goodness in our lives. He has told us that we receive no witness until after a trial of our faith.

Matthew 7:7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

As we draw near unto God he draws near unto us. We receive according to our faith.

James 4:8
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

When we learn to exercise faith in Him and seek after Him and His goodness through repentance, He will reveal Himself unto us in his own way. Only after passing tests of faith will we be allowed to have certain knowledge of God.

 

[ding]

Is God knowable? On another thread the other day someone stated that God cannot be known. His exact words were: “You can't know God; you can only know God's creation.” I’ve never seen a thread on this topic before, so instead of replying to him on the other thread, I figured I’d start a new one.

So, is God knowable?

I’ll give my answer to the question, but feel free to correct me if you think I’m wrong! I’m basing my answer on what the scriptures say, as well as common sense and self-evident truths.

I think the answer to the question is yes and no.

From a biblical perspective, the scriptures are clear that we can’t fully understand God, but at the same time, we can have a personal knowledge of God.

In other words, we can’t know God exhaustively, obviously that is beyond our human ability, but God is knowable.

Here are a few scriptures on the Incomprehensibility of God:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

​

Isaiah 55:8-9​

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;​

it is high; I cannot attain it.​

​

Psalm 139:6​

How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!​

How vast is the sum of them!​

If I would count them, they are more than the sand.​

I awake, and I am still with you.​

​

Psalm 139:17–18​

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power;​

his understanding is beyond measure.​

​

Psalm 147:5​

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!​

How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!​

​

“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”​

​

Romans 11:33-34​

There are many more, but I’m not going to write a book here.

There are also tons of scriptures on knowing God. Here are a few. (Bold added by me)

Thus says the Lord:​

​

“Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,​

Let not the mighty man glory in his might,​

Nor let the rich man glory in his riches;​

​

But let him who glories glory in this,​

That he understands and knows Me,​

That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.​

For in these I delight,” says the Lord.​

​

Jer. 9:23–24​

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,​

the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.​

​

Hosea 6:6​

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.​

​

John 17:3​

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true - even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.​

​

1 John 5:20​

For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.​

​

2 Timothy 1:12​

"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

​

Romans 1:19-21​

None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”​

​

Hebrews 8:11-12​

"...that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death"​

​

Phil 3:10​

"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.​

​

John 14:7​

As I said, I'm not basing this only on the scriptures. I think it's just common sense, as well. Ask yourself the question.... would a loving, good God want His own creation to seek and know Him? Of course, in the same way that a parent wants a relationship with their child, the Creator wants us to know and be reconciled to Him. What would be the point of creating us if He didn't want us to know Him?

The bottom line is, just because we can’t know EVERYTHING about God doesn’t mean that we can’t know anything. Not only is God knowable, but God WANTS us to seek and know Him.

If you disagree, please make your case!


PS: This is not a thread about the existence of God. So to the atheists here, I know you're always itching to change the topic into that, but that's not the debate here. The debate is: Is God knowable? So if you want to debate the existence of God, I'm sure there are probably hundreds of threads on that topic, or you can always start a new one. Thanks!

We can know God through the light of human reason by examining His creation and inviting Him into our hearts. Logic and reason can lead us to God but relationships are how we get to know God.

 

[buttercup]

Is God knowable? On another thread the other day someone stated that God cannot be known. His exact words were: “You can't know God; you can only know God's creation.” I’ve never seen a thread on this topic before, so instead of replying to him on the other thread, I figured I’d start a new one.

So, is God knowable?

I’ll give my answer to the question, but feel free to correct me if you think I’m wrong! I’m basing my answer on what the scriptures say, as well as common sense and self-evident truths.

I think the answer to the question is yes and no.

From a biblical perspective, the scriptures are clear that we can’t fully understand God, but at the same time, we can have a personal knowledge of God.

In other words, we can’t know God exhaustively, obviously that is beyond our human ability, but God is knowable.

Here are a few scriptures on the Incomprehensibility of God:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

​

Isaiah 55:8-9​

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;​

it is high; I cannot attain it.​

​

Psalm 139:6​

How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!​

How vast is the sum of them!​

If I would count them, they are more than the sand.​

I awake, and I am still with you.​

​

Psalm 139:17–18​

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power;​

his understanding is beyond measure.​

​

Psalm 147:5​

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!​

How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!​

​

“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”​

​

Romans 11:33-34​

There are many more, but I’m not going to write a book here.

There are also tons of scriptures on knowing God. Here are a few. (Bold added by me)

Thus says the Lord:​

​

“Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,​

Let not the mighty man glory in his might,​

Nor let the rich man glory in his riches;​

​

But let him who glories glory in this,​

That he understands and knows Me,​

That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.​

For in these I delight,” says the Lord.​

​

Jer. 9:23–24​

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,​

the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.​

​

Hosea 6:6​

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.​

​

John 17:3​

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true - even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.​

​

1 John 5:20​

For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.​

​

2 Timothy 1:12​

"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

​

Romans 1:19-21​

None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”​

​

Hebrews 8:11-12​

"...that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death"​

​

Phil 3:10​

"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.​

​

John 14:7​

As I said, I'm not basing this only on the scriptures. I think it's just common sense, as well. Ask yourself the question.... would a loving, good God want His own creation to seek and know Him? Of course, in the same way that a parent wants a relationship with their child, the Creator wants us to know and be reconciled to Him. What would be the point of creating us if He didn't want us to know Him?

The bottom line is, just because we can’t know EVERYTHING about God doesn’t mean that we can’t know anything. Not only is God knowable, but God WANTS us to seek and know Him.

If you disagree, please make your case!


PS: This is not a thread about the existence of God. So to the atheists here, I know you're always itching to change the topic into that, but that's not the debate here. The debate is: Is God knowable? So if you want to debate the existence of God, I'm sure there are probably hundreds of threads on that topic, or you can always start a new one. Thanks!

We can know God through the light of human reason by examining His creation and inviting Him into our hearts. Logic and reason can lead us to God but relationships are how we get to know God.

I agree, but as I said before, I think there are a number of ways God can be known. That wasn't the focus of this thread though, it was more for people who claim that we can't know God. (I guess not many people think that way, since so far most here have agreed that God is indeed knowable.)

 

[BreezeWood]

Is God knowable? On another thread the other day someone stated that God cannot be known. His exact words were: “You can't know God; you can only know God's creation.” I’ve never seen a thread on this topic before, so instead of replying to him on the other thread, I figured I’d start a new one.

So, is God knowable?

I’ll give my answer to the question, but feel free to correct me if you think I’m wrong! I’m basing my answer on what the scriptures say, as well as common sense and self-evident truths.

I think the answer to the question is yes and no.

From a biblical perspective, the scriptures are clear that we can’t fully understand God, but at the same time, we can have a personal knowledge of God.

In other words, we can’t know God exhaustively, obviously that is beyond our human ability, but God is knowable.

Here are a few scriptures on the Incomprehensibility of God:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

​

Isaiah 55:8-9​

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;​

it is high; I cannot attain it.​

​

Psalm 139:6​

How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!​

How vast is the sum of them!​

If I would count them, they are more than the sand.​

I awake, and I am still with you.​

​

Psalm 139:17–18​

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power;​

his understanding is beyond measure.​

​

Psalm 147:5​

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!​

How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!​

​

“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”​

​

Romans 11:33-34​

There are many more, but I’m not going to write a book here.

There are also tons of scriptures on knowing God. Here are a few. (Bold added by me)

Thus says the Lord:​

​

“Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,​

Let not the mighty man glory in his might,​

Nor let the rich man glory in his riches;​

​

But let him who glories glory in this,​

That he understands and knows Me,​

That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.​

For in these I delight,” says the Lord.​

​

Jer. 9:23–24​

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,​

the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.​

​

Hosea 6:6​

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.​

​

John 17:3​

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true - even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.​

​

1 John 5:20​

For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.​

​

2 Timothy 1:12​

"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

​

Romans 1:19-21​

None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”​

​

Hebrews 8:11-12​

"...that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death"​

​

Phil 3:10​

"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.​

​

John 14:7​

As I said, I'm not basing this only on the scriptures. I think it's just common sense, as well. Ask yourself the question.... would a loving, good God want His own creation to seek and know Him? Of course, in the same way that a parent wants a relationship with their child, the Creator wants us to know and be reconciled to Him. What would be the point of creating us if He didn't want us to know Him?

The bottom line is, just because we can’t know EVERYTHING about God doesn’t mean that we can’t know anything. Not only is God knowable, but God WANTS us to seek and know Him.

If you disagree, please make your case!


PS: This is not a thread about the existence of God. So to the atheists here, I know you're always itching to change the topic into that, but that's not the debate here. The debate is: Is God knowable? So if you want to debate the existence of God, I'm sure there are probably hundreds of threads on that topic, or you can always start a new one. Thanks!

We can know God through the light of human reason by examining His creation and inviting Him into our hearts. Logic and reason can lead us to God but relationships are how we get to know God.

.

We can know God through the light of human reason by examining His (their) creation and inviting Him (them) into our hearts. Logic and reason can lead us to God but relationships are how we get to know God.

.
one obvious clarity from the beginning or the 1st century, creation is not gender specific ... knowing them is for sure the combination of many parts. not the first order of the day - for some.

 

[.oldschool]

Jer

The angel of the Lord is the closest you can get (in biblical terms).

He walked along side Adam and Eve

 

[there4eyeM]

Belief can be nice. Hearing or reading about religious subjects can be nice. History shows, however, that, often, these have not resulted in nice things. Merely believing or hearing or reading is, in a very real sense, nothing compared to what 'knowing' is. For a totally basic example of this, consider the lowly bicycle. One can imagine that 'cycling is fun. On can hear all the stories possible about how great bikes are. One can be an expert in metallurgy and mechanics and be able to extract the minerals from the earth and all the techniques to build a bicycle. One could read every book ever written about the subject, and all that would not result in being able to ride a bicycle. One knows how to ride or one does not, and that is only ever achieved by getting on and doing it. No one and nothing can do it for you.

 

[.oldschool]

Belief can be nice. Hearing or reading about religious subjects can be nice. History shows, however, that, often, these have not resulted in nice things. Merely believing or hearing or reading is, in a very real sense, nothing compared to what 'knowing' is. For a totally basic example of this, consider the lowly bicycle. One can imagine that 'cycling is fun. On can hear all the stories possible about how great bikes are. One can be an expert in metallurgy and mechanics and be able to extract the minerals from the earth and all the techniques to build a bicycle. One could read every book ever written about the subject, and all that would not result in being able to ride a bicycle. One knows how to ride or one does not, and that is only ever achieved by getting on and doing it. No one and nothing can do it for you.

True.

 

[foggedinn]

God may only be known through His Word.
There are multiple problems. Many translations say the same thing in different ways. Other translations leave things out that the translators find unacceptable. Others actually change the text to be more in line with their own views. I've only read the KJV and NIV cover to cover.
Here are two examples from Deut. 19 v15.
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. (KJV)

15 One witness is not enough to convict anyone accused of any crime or offense they may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. (NIV)

The KJV makes the sin of the one who would rise up the focus of the verse. The NIV doesn't even mention the sin of the witness and focuses entirely on the number of witnesses.

 

[Iamartiewhitefox]

Is God knowable? On another thread the other day someone stated that God cannot be known. His exact words were: “You can't know God; you can only know God's creation.” I’ve never seen a thread on this topic before, so instead of replying to him on the other thread, I figured I’d start a new one.

So, is God knowable?

I’ll give my answer to the question, but feel free to correct me if you think I’m wrong! I’m basing my answer on what the scriptures say, as well as common sense and self-evident truths.

I think the answer to the question is yes and no.

From a biblical perspective, the scriptures are clear that we can’t fully understand God, but at the same time, we can have a personal knowledge of God.

In other words, we can’t know God exhaustively, obviously that is beyond our human ability, but God is knowable.

Here are a few scriptures on the Incomprehensibility of God:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

​

Isaiah 55:8-9​

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;​

it is high; I cannot attain it.​

​

Psalm 139:6​

How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!​

How vast is the sum of them!​

If I would count them, they are more than the sand.​

I awake, and I am still with you.​

​

Psalm 139:17–18​

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power;​

his understanding is beyond measure.​

​

Psalm 147:5​

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!​

How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!​

​

“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”​

​

Romans 11:33-34​

There are many more, but I’m not going to write a book here.

There are also tons of scriptures on knowing God. Here are a few. (Bold added by me)

Thus says the Lord:​

​

“Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,​

Let not the mighty man glory in his might,​

Nor let the rich man glory in his riches;​

​

But let him who glories glory in this,​

That he understands and knows Me,​

That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.​

For in these I delight,” says the Lord.​

​

Jer. 9:23–24​

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,​

the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.​

​

Hosea 6:6​

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.​

​

John 17:3​

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true - even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.​

​

1 John 5:20​

For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.​

​

2 Timothy 1:12​

"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

​

Romans 1:19-21​

None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”​

​

Hebrews 8:11-12​

"...that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death"​

​

Phil 3:10​

"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.​

​

John 14:7​

As I said, I'm not basing this only on the scriptures. I think it's just common sense, as well. Ask yourself the question.... would a loving, good God want His own creation to seek and know Him? Of course, in the same way that a parent wants a relationship with their child, the Creator wants us to know and be reconciled to Him. What would be the point of creating us if He didn't want us to know Him?

The bottom line is, just because we can’t know EVERYTHING about God doesn’t mean that we can’t know anything. Not only is God knowable, but God WANTS us to seek and know Him.

If you disagree, please make your case!


PS: This is not a thread about the existence of God. So to the atheists here, I know you're always itching to change the topic into that, but that's not the debate here. The debate is: Is God knowable? So if you want to debate the existence of God, I'm sure there are probably hundreds of threads on that topic, or you can always start a new one. Thanks!

Yes. Know Jesus. Know God. Jesus did not say thankyou when given a coin like a human would have done. Jesus wanted that coin and all of the others to be given to the person whose name and image was on the coin. Jesus did not go around gathering up the coins that fell from the money changers tables. Jesus wanted the disciples and others to give to each other what is God's. God's children are make things, with the things that God made. God is love beyond our mind to comprehend. God wants us to be like him. They that are like him will not perish in his light. We will still be male and female in God's kingdom. Jesus is male. Being like the angels is being immoral. Meats for the belly and the belly for meats are the only things that will be destroyed on this body, and the body of the animals that are around us.