Can a Progressive love America?

[Laslow]

Again. More griping about the Left. But no statement about what you Love about America.

I grew into manhood in the 1980’s. I can still remember Reagan. Reagan could speak off the cuff about his visions, beliefs, and ideals with ease. He didn’t need notes. He didn’t need a teleprompter. He only needed a question.

I can describe my love for America. And all of you here, not one of you has. Not one.

You keep harping and grousing about the Left. But you don’t tell anyone what you love.

This is the easiest question ever. Why can’t you answer it?

If you make a thread that is about what people love about America, I will gladly answer. To the point of this thread, I'd like to be able to say I love my country without it being viewed as fascist.

 

[SavannahMann]

If you make a thread that is about what people love about America, I will gladly answer. To the point of this thread, I'd like to be able to say I love my country without it being viewed as fascist.

The thread is about how the left doesn’t love America. Ok. So what do you love than the left doesn’t? You sort of have to do that to compare and contrast don’t you?

 

[Correll]

You certainly don’t feel or express that.

I don't? What makes you say that?

So is that what defines Patriotism in your mind?

Get yourself focused. That was not the question you asked me.

 

[Correll]

Again. More griping about the Left. But no statement about what you Love about America.

I grew into manhood in the 1980’s. I can still remember Reagan. Reagan could speak off the cuff about his visions, beliefs, and ideals with ease. He didn’t need notes. He didn’t need a teleprompter. He only needed a question.

I can describe my love for America. And all of you here, not one of you has. Not one.

You keep harping and grousing about the Left. But you don’t tell anyone what you love.

This is the easiest question ever. Why can’t you answer it?

This thread is NOT about what conservatives loves about America, but whether or not progressives can, when they are hostile to the very concept of NATIONALISM.

 

[SavannahMann]

This thread is about what conservatives loves about America, but whether or not progressives can, when they are hostile to the very concept of NATIONALISM.

I joined the Army. I served for 9 years before getting out with an Honorable Discharge. I fought in a war. I trained hard. And I suffer the pains and aches from my time in the Military.

I’d say my love for America is pretty well established. I risked life and limb to defend your rights. Interesting isn’t it? I live up to my oath even today. A quarter century after I accepted my Honorable and left the service. I defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

It is a curious coincidence. The loudest voices are almost always those who never served. They never risked death. They never put their lives on the line to defend this nation.

I would have been considered a Moderate before. I’m a member of both the ACLU and the NRA. All the amendments matter to me. They are all interconnected, intertwined. You can’t diminish one without weakening all.

But the Right doesn’t love the Constitution. They hate it. Rights of the accused is decried as Liberal love of criminals. Yet. Those rights are clearly enumerated in the Constitution. So how does the Right love America when they detest the very principles that led to the founding?

I reject the RW definition of Nationalism. Because they don’t define it. And at most they rant about borders or foreign invaders. I’m in my 50’s and I’ve been hearing those claims all my life. In 1984 the Summer Olympics were held in Los Angeles. The joke told by everyone was that Mexico didn’t have an Olympic Team because everyone who could run, jump, or swim was already here.

Nationalists scream we need to get tough on crime. I’ve heard that for a long time too. And it is just as silly now as before.

Prisons are already overcrowded. California which is supposedly soft on crime has jails and prisons overcrowded beyond belief. The prisons were designed and built for a number of beds. For every bed they have one and a quarter prisoners. That comes to five crooks for every bed. You can’t get tougher than that. You can’t keep shoving crooks in. It is already overcrowded and dangerous for the guards. You’ll need more prisons.

Somehow the Love America Nationalists never want to pony up the additional money it will cost to get tougher on crime. They don’t want to pay a dime more in taxes. So in addition to hating the Constitution, Nationalists are cheap.

We have more people in prison than any other country in the world per capita. And we have more crime. So if we aren’t getting tough by having more people in prison what are we? Is there something in the air or water that makes people criminal?

Nationalists hate anything but idiotic simplistic answers. And it always revolves around someone else doing it.

Nationalists don’t love America. They are just the opposite side of the coin. They are RW Radicals. Nothing to admire. And nothing to there to support.

 

[Correll]

I joined the Army. I served for 9 years before getting out with an Honorable Discharge. I fought in a war. I trained hard. And I suffer the pains and aches from my time in the Military.

I’d say my love for America is pretty well established. I risked life and limb to defend your rights. Interesting isn’t it? I live up to my oath even today. A quarter century after I accepted my Honorable and left the service. I defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

It is a curious coincidence. The loudest voices are almost always those who never served. They never risked death. They never put their lives on the line to defend this nation.

I would have been considered a Moderate before. I’m a member of both the ACLU and the NRA. All the amendments matter to me. They are all interconnected, intertwined. You can’t diminish one without weakening all.

But the Right doesn’t love the Constitution. They hate it.

I disagree.

Rights of the accused is decried as Liberal love of criminals.

I've never seen that claim made by a right leaning person.

I reject the RW definition of Nationalism. Because they don’t define it.

What are you even talking about? It's not an obscure word. WE DON'T HAVE TO DEFINE IT.

Definition of nationalism​

1: loyalty and devotion to a nationespecially : a sense of national consciousness (see CONSCIOUSNESS sense 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

And at most they rant about borders or foreign invaders. I’m in my 50’s and I’ve been hearing those claims all my life. In 1984 the Summer Olympics were held in Los Angeles. The joke told by everyone was that Mexico didn’t have an Olympic Team because everyone who could run, jump, or swim was already here.

Nationalists scream we need to get tough on crime. I’ve heard that for a long time too. And it is just as silly now as before.

Prisons are already overcrowded. California which is supposedly soft on crime has jails and prisons overcrowded beyond belief. The prisons were designed and built for a number of beds. For every bed they have one and a quarter prisoners. That comes to five crooks for every bed. You can’t get tougher than that. You can’t keep shoving crooks in. It is already overcrowded and dangerous for the guards. You’ll need more prisons.

Somehow the Love America Nationalists never want to pony up the additional money it will cost to get tougher on crime. They don’t want to pay a dime more in taxes. So in addition to hating the Constitution, Nationalists are cheap.

We have more people in prison than any other country in the world per capita. And we have more crime. So if we aren’t getting tough by having more people in prison what are we? Is there something in the air or water that makes people criminal?

Nationalists hate anything but idiotic simplistic answers. And it always revolves around someone else doing it.

Nationalists don’t love America. They are just the opposite side of the coin. They are RW Radicals. Nothing to admire. And nothing to there to support.

You seem confused about the meaning of the word, not us. I have now posted it for you.


The Left has been attacking Trump and Trump supporters for being "nationalists", often while vaguely trying to link it with either NAZIS, or White Nationalism.


That is the context of the OP.



Now that you have the meaning and the context, do you want to address the OP?

 

[SavannahMann]

I disagree.




I've never seen that claim made by a right leaning person.




What are you even talking about? It's not an obscure word. WE DON'T HAVE TO DEFINE IT.

Definition of nationalism​

1: loyalty and devotion to a nationespecially : a sense of national consciousness (see CONSCIOUSNESS sense 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups







You seem confused about the meaning of the word, not us. I have now posted it for you.


The Left has been attacking Trump and Trump supporters for being "nationalists", often while vaguely trying to link it with either NAZIS, or White Nationalism.


That is the context of the OP.



Now that you have the meaning and the context, do you want to address the OP?

Many of the Trump supporters are racists. That is not Nationalist as you define it. But it is how they define it.

Trump himself is going more anti Jew than he has done so before. At least openly.

MSN

www.msn.com

A core tenet of this nation. The First Amendment. Freedom of Religion. If our national identity is anything. It is our tolerance of those who are different. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.

But Trump Supporters don’t support that. And the Nationalists don’t support that.

 

[Correll]

Many of the Trump supporters are racists.

Yeah, that's retarded and off topic.

That is not Nationalist as you define it. But it is how they define it.

As above, "nationalism" is not confusing. I have provided you a standard dictionary definition. Please cease all discussion on what the word means. It is retarded and boring.

Trump himself is going more anti Jew than he has done so before. At least openly.

No, he hasn't, and that has nothing to do with Nationalism. So, wtf are you even talking about that for?

MSN

www.msn.com

A core tenet of this nation. The First Amendment. Freedom of Religion. If our national identity is anything. It is our tolerance of those who are different. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.

That's not true and has nothing to do with the op.

And the Nationalists don’t support that.

What are you even doing now?



QUESTION: DO YOU THINK IT IS OK FOR AMERICA TO CRAFT GOVERNMENT POLICY WITH THE GOAL OF ADVANCING AMERICAN INTERESTS?

 

[IM2]

The left has made it very clear that if you love your country, you are a Nazi. They view nationalism as inherently dangerous. Are progressives the first party to openly dislike their country? I know the left posters will say they love the country, but how do they get around the Nazi Paradox? Why can they love the country, but no one else can? Of all the bizarre things the left is doing, I think it is understated how much they view people who love the country as dangerous.

The so-called left has done no such thing. The right thinks they get to define what American is. The nationalism you are talking about is white nationalism and that is divisive and dangerous. It is the right that hates the idea of America as the melting pot.

 

[IM2]

Nationalism is promoted as fascism by Progressives. We lived as a nation with borders, culture and language and it worked from its inception. The constitution was written on that. Different parts of the nation lived slightly different than others. But we crossed state lines even if a bit wary. Three million square miles.

Bullshit. White nationalism is fascism. You ignore how America really did things to make these false claims.

 

[SavannahMann]

Yeah, that's retarded and off topic.





As above, "nationalism" is not confusing. I have provided you a standard dictionary definition. Please cease all discussion on what the word means. It is retarded and boring.




No, he hasn't, and that has nothing to do with Nationalism. So, wtf are you even talking about that for?




That's not true and has nothing to do with the op.








What are you even doing now?



QUESTION: DO YOU THINK IT IS OK FOR AMERICA TO CRAFT GOVERNMENT POLICY WITH THE GOAL OF ADVANCING AMERICAN INTERESTS?

The left is interested in promoting American Interests. The disagreement stems from what you believe the interests are. So far. You have just said American Interests. And somehow I’m wrong.

So what are these American Interests you wish to promote?

 

[Laslow]

Many of the Trump supporters are racists. That is not Nationalist as you define it. But it is how they define it.

Trump himself is going more anti Jew than he has done so before. At least openly.

MSN

www.msn.com

A core tenet of this nation. The First Amendment. Freedom of Religion. If our national identity is anything. It is our tolerance of those who are different. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.

But Trump Supporters don’t support that. And the Nationalists don’t support that.

I joined the Army. I served for 9 years before getting out with an Honorable Discharge. I fought in a war. I trained hard. And I suffer the pains and aches from my time in the Military.

I’d say my love for America is pretty well established. I risked life and limb to defend your rights. Interesting isn’t it? I live up to my oath even today. A quarter century after I accepted my Honorable and left the service. I defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

It is a curious coincidence. The loudest voices are almost always those who never served. They never risked death. They never put their lives on the line to defend this nation.

I would have been considered a Moderate before. I’m a member of both the ACLU and the NRA. All the amendments matter to me. They are all interconnected, intertwined. You can’t diminish one without weakening all.

But the Right doesn’t love the Constitution. They hate it. Rights of the accused is decried as Liberal love of criminals. Yet. Those rights are clearly enumerated in the Constitution. So how does the Right love America when they detest the very principles that led to the founding?

I reject the RW definition of Nationalism. Because they don’t define it. And at most they rant about borders or foreign invaders. I’m in my 50’s and I’ve been hearing those claims all my life. In 1984 the Summer Olympics were held in Los Angeles. The joke told by everyone was that Mexico didn’t have an Olympic Team because everyone who could run, jump, or swim was already here.

Nationalists scream we need to get tough on crime. I’ve heard that for a long time too. And it is just as silly now as before.

Prisons are already overcrowded. California which is supposedly soft on crime has jails and prisons overcrowded beyond belief. The prisons were designed and built for a number of beds. For every bed they have one and a quarter prisoners. That comes to five crooks for every bed. You can’t get tougher than that. You can’t keep shoving crooks in. It is already overcrowded and dangerous for the guards. You’ll need more prisons.

Somehow the Love America Nationalists never want to pony up the additional money it will cost to get tougher on crime. They don’t want to pay a dime more in taxes. So in addition to hating the Constitution, Nationalists are cheap.

We have more people in prison than any other country in the world per capita. And we have more crime. So if we aren’t getting tough by having more people in prison what are we? Is there something in the air or water that makes people criminal?

Nationalists hate anything but idiotic simplistic answers. And it always revolves around someone else doing it.

Nationalists don’t love America. They are just the opposite side of the coin. They are RW Radicals. Nothing to admire. And nothing to there to support.

I wasn't trying to get tricky with the word nationalism. I just meant it in a generic textbook way. I think you are hardwired to describe nationalism as everything you hate about republicans. That is the point. You have redefined nationalism as RW Radicals. With a broad brush, you are saying millions and millions of people are guilty of believing something different and therefore dangerous. It wouldn't matter why I love America, as soon as I say I'm a Republican, it is automatically inferred that I am a racist and a fascist. Our government has declared a huge portion of its own people as the enemy. If nationalism is the new slur for republicans, is it possible for democrats to say they are nationalist? What term would a democrat use to describe people who love the country for the reasons they believe are the right reasons?

 

[The Duke]

The left has made it very clear that if you love your country, you are a Nazi. They view nationalism as inherently dangerous. Are progressives the first party to openly dislike their country? I know the left posters will say they love the country, but how do they get around the Nazi Paradox? Why can they love the country, but no one else can? Of all the bizarre things the left is doing, I think it is understated how much they view people who love the country as dangerous.

No.

 

[The Duke]

The left is interested in promoting American Interests. The disagreement stems from what you believe the interests are. So far. You have just said American Interests. And somehow I’m wrong.

So what are these American Interests you wish to promote?

Name one, you commie fucktard! LMAO!

G'luck with that!

 

[The Duke]

Yet you guys are the ones with confederate flags....

Confederate flags are American. Commie flags are NOT.

 

[Correll]

The left is interested in promoting American Interests. The disagreement stems from what you believe the interests are. So far. You have just said American Interests. And somehow I’m wrong.

I've had many liberals attack me for stating that we should have American policy that is crafted to serve American interests, in the context of immigration, trade, and defense, (off the top of my head)


A disagreement about WHAT the interests are, or HOW to pursue them would be a very different discussion, to what I normally have lefties.


If you support the idea of American Policy supporting AMERICAN INTERESTS, then you and me are on the same page. on this at least.

So what are these American Interests you wish to promote?

The specifics doesn't really matter. This thread is about the PRINCIPLE of Nationalism. Progressives have been attacking the very PRINCIPLE of Nationalism.


So, from that angle, it would be wrong to pursue any and all American interests.

 

[SavannahMann]

I've had many liberals attack me for stating that we should have American policy that is crafted to serve American interests, in the context of immigration, trade, and defense, (off the top of my head)


A disagreement about WHAT the interests are, or HOW to pursue them would be a very different discussion, to what I normally have lefties.


If you support the idea of American Policy supporting AMERICAN INTERESTS, then you and me are on the same page. on this at least.








The specifics doesn't really matter. This thread is about the PRINCIPLE of Nationalism. Progressives have been attacking the very PRINCIPLE of Nationalism.


So, from that angle, it would be wrong to pursue any and all American interests.

No. We attack White Nationalism. And we is defined as Americans.

 

[SavannahMann]

Name one, you commie fucktard! LMAO!

G'luck with that!

Weren’t you going to remove me from Society? When I told you got to find me you got silent. I understand. Leaving your basement is such a frightening idea.

 

[Here and there]

Well, most Democrats are hate filled fanatics, racists and bigots.

Not so. That's typically ignorant propaganda used by the right to shift the well documented blame of those titles to them.

This is why the Democratic Party is filled with hate groups like the klan, nation of islam, BLM, Antifa, Black Panthers and Muslim Brotherhood.

Do you mean like oath keepers etc and the thousands of redneck ratbags who stormed the capital because they hate liberty, freedom and democracy?
Do some homework son.

The Republicans are not "far right".
They are the mainstream.

Yeah. I read a book like that.

Conservatives are the middle.

Middle of the road blocking access to progressive policies.

The problem is that the Democrats are so far left that the mainstream looks far right to them.

I didnt see them smashing the capital and wanting to install a narcissistic brain dead used POTUS as an eternal leader. Did you?

In fact, calling mainstream Americans "fascist" is hate.

Exactly. Then why would you call mainstream democrats as fascists? Possibly you believe democrats are not equal to your self assessed pious attitude. Democracy at the last election proved that wrong.

 

[Here and there]

You either follow evil or you do not. You believe you are not following evil. We reached out peak on the late 1960's. Then we made to many wrong choices in how correcting wrongs. Now we are in decline.

You are being so over dramatic spurred on by hatred of democrats and in turn possibly repeating what religion teaches you.
I am an atheist. Evil or anything else doesn't enter my life but clearly you are brain washed to accept it as fact.
I wish you luck with the eternal life joke which has been played on you.