Can A President Pardon Himself?

SmokeALib

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.
Pardon himself from what? MAGA?
Exactly. There are no Trump crimes/indictments to address with a "pardon".
The FBI is investigating the Bidens for money laundering and influence peddling and illegal lobbying and....
I am guessing the OP is suggesting that Donald John Trump is being investigated by the State of New York and that is why they asked this asinine question...

Now do you want to pretend no investigation is going on at State level?
So its another democrat fishing expedition, not anything illegal.
I'm sure Trump has more than a few layers of protection from any legal issues, even at the state level.
How do you know if he is guilty or innocent until all evidence is shown?

Trump has broken the law numerous times and paid the fines that were required of him, so I am not surprised that he is being investigated...

So as you proclaim it is a fishing expedition the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been in violation many times and this is nothing new but still it tell you why the OP asked the asinine question in the first place...
Bullshit. Trump could drop a white house pen on the sidewalk and you worthless leftist traitors would have him under investigation for littering before he picked it back up.
 
OP
Jake Winker Frogen

Jake Winker Frogen

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I love Jazz, know a lot about the history of it, listen to it every day. Jazz certainly takes the talent and dedication of a classical musician to play it, but jazz musicians do not paint by numbers follow the rules, they break them.
Jazz musicians actually do follow the "rules" in terms of modes of Major, modes of Melodic Minor, Minor Harmonic, and Half Whole Diminished (all possible chords), not including Holdsworth voicings. "Breaking the rules" will sound like a Frank Zappa mess.

Your talking about the brushes, I am talking about the painting.

The entire concept of improvising, after learning the craft, then breaking the rules, is what made jazz.

All great art innovations learn the rules, then break them.

As John Coltrane said “Damn the rules, it's the feeling that counts."
 
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Mad_Jack_Flint

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.
Pardon himself from what? MAGA?
Exactly. There are no Trump crimes/indictments to address with a "pardon".
The FBI is investigating the Bidens for money laundering and influence peddling and illegal lobbying and....
I am guessing the OP is suggesting that Donald John Trump is being investigated by the State of New York and that is why they asked this asinine question...

Now do you want to pretend no investigation is going on at State level?
So its another democrat fishing expedition, not anything illegal.
I'm sure Trump has more than a few layers of protection from any legal issues, even at the state level.
How do you know if he is guilty or innocent until all evidence is shown?

Trump has broken the law numerous times and paid the fines that were required of him, so I am not surprised that he is being investigated...

So as you proclaim it is a fishing expedition the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been in violation many times and this is nothing new but still it tell you why the OP asked the asinine question in the first place...
Bullshit. Trump could drop a white house pen on the sidewalk and you worthless leftist traitors would have him under investigation for littering before he picked it back up.
Wow, another unhinged response by those making more false claims about a poster that is neither left nor right.

First off Trump has been investigated for decades and is under investigation by the State of New York and has been under audit by the IRS before becoming President, so nothing new and yet you will disagree and proclaim it is all because he is a Republican President...

Trump and his corporations have been hit with fines since the 1970’s by the Federal Government, so investigations into Trump businesses have been going on probably longer than you have been alive...

I know this blow your theory Trump is being targeted for his willingness to sacrifice his private life to be your messiah of a President and some investigations might well be political which come with the game he want to play, but still reality is Trump has been investigated for decades and this is nothing new...

Now go wrap yourself in your Trumptard flag, suckle your thumb and hold your Trump Bear and deny all I wrote when there is a well documented history of Trump past that you kindly forget...

Just imagine if Biden had so many business violations and how you would kick and scream or imagine if Trump were still a Democratic Party donor and how you would spit on him...
 
OP
Jake Winker Frogen

Jake Winker Frogen

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I love Jazz, know a lot about the history of it, listen to it every day. Jazz certainly takes the talent and dedication of a classical musician to play it, but jazz musicians do not paint by numbers follow the rules, they break them.
Jazz musicians actually do follow the "rules" in terms of modes of Major, modes of Melodic Minor, Minor Harmonic, and Half Whole Diminished (all possible chords), not including Holdsworth voicings. "Breaking the rules" will sound like a Frank Zappa mess.

Your talking about the brushes, I am talking about the painting.

The entire concept of improvising, after learning the craft, then breaking the rules, is what made jazz.

All great art innovations learn the rules, then break them.

As John Coltrane said “Damn the rules, it's the feeling that counts."

And I do not only think this true of great art, but all meaningful life.

The masterpiece moments of our ever flickering lives before certain suffering and death , as rare as they may be in any life, are based on hard work and learning the rules but then learning when to break them like a true human artist of the heart and mind before tap dancing time.
 

SmokeALib

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.
Pardon himself from what? MAGA?
Exactly. There are no Trump crimes/indictments to address with a "pardon".
The FBI is investigating the Bidens for money laundering and influence peddling and illegal lobbying and....
I am guessing the OP is suggesting that Donald John Trump is being investigated by the State of New York and that is why they asked this asinine question...

Now do you want to pretend no investigation is going on at State level?
So its another democrat fishing expedition, not anything illegal.
I'm sure Trump has more than a few layers of protection from any legal issues, even at the state level.
How do you know if he is guilty or innocent until all evidence is shown?

Trump has broken the law numerous times and paid the fines that were required of him, so I am not surprised that he is being investigated...

So as you proclaim it is a fishing expedition the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been in violation many times and this is nothing new but still it tell you why the OP asked the asinine question in the first place...
Bullshit. Trump could drop a white house pen on the sidewalk and you worthless leftist traitors would have him under investigation for littering before he picked it back up.
Wow, another unhinged response by those making more false claims about a poster that is neither left nor right.

First off Trump has been investigated for decades and is under investigation by the State of New York and has been under audit by the IRS before becoming President, so nothing new and yet you will disagree and proclaim it is all because he is a Republican President...

Trump and his corporations have been hit with fines since the 1970’s by the Federal Government, so investigations into Trump businesses have been going on probably longer than you have been alive...

I know this blow your theory Trump is being targeted for his willingness to sacrifice his private life to be your messiah of a President and some investigations might well be political which come with the game he want to play, but still reality is Trump has been investigated for decades and this is nothing new...

Now go wrap yourself in your Trumptard flag, suckle your thumb and hold your Trump Bear and deny all I wrote when there is a well documented history of Trump past that you kindly forget...

Just imagine if Biden had so many business violations and how you would kick and scream or imagine if Trump were still a Democratic Party donor and how you would spit on him...
I'm not saying Trump has never been investigated dumbass. I'm saying he is always being investigated. Yet, here he is - President of the United States - in spite of these bullshit investigations. Success does have its drawbacks. If the less successful can't have a piece of that pie, they investigate. Wasn't the Russia narrative an "investigation" by the FBI - fueled by purposely leaked misinformation by the DNC?
 

Mad_Jack_Flint

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.
Pardon himself from what? MAGA?
Exactly. There are no Trump crimes/indictments to address with a "pardon".
The FBI is investigating the Bidens for money laundering and influence peddling and illegal lobbying and....
I am guessing the OP is suggesting that Donald John Trump is being investigated by the State of New York and that is why they asked this asinine question...

Now do you want to pretend no investigation is going on at State level?
So its another democrat fishing expedition, not anything illegal.
I'm sure Trump has more than a few layers of protection from any legal issues, even at the state level.
How do you know if he is guilty or innocent until all evidence is shown?

Trump has broken the law numerous times and paid the fines that were required of him, so I am not surprised that he is being investigated...

So as you proclaim it is a fishing expedition the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been in violation many times and this is nothing new but still it tell you why the OP asked the asinine question in the first place...
Bullshit. Trump could drop a white house pen on the sidewalk and you worthless leftist traitors would have him under investigation for littering before he picked it back up.
Wow, another unhinged response by those making more false claims about a poster that is neither left nor right.

First off Trump has been investigated for decades and is under investigation by the State of New York and has been under audit by the IRS before becoming President, so nothing new and yet you will disagree and proclaim it is all because he is a Republican President...

Trump and his corporations have been hit with fines since the 1970’s by the Federal Government, so investigations into Trump businesses have been going on probably longer than you have been alive...

I know this blow your theory Trump is being targeted for his willingness to sacrifice his private life to be your messiah of a President and some investigations might well be political which come with the game he want to play, but still reality is Trump has been investigated for decades and this is nothing new...

Now go wrap yourself in your Trumptard flag, suckle your thumb and hold your Trump Bear and deny all I wrote when there is a well documented history of Trump past that you kindly forget...

Just imagine if Biden had so many business violations and how you would kick and scream or imagine if Trump were still a Democratic Party donor and how you would spit on him...
I'm not saying Trump has never been investigated dumbass. I'm saying he is always being investigated. Yet, here he is - President of the United States - in spite of these bullshit investigations. Success does have its drawbacks. If the less successful can't have a piece of that pie, they investigate. Wasn't the Russia narrative an "investigation" by the FBI - fueled by purposely leaked misinformation by the DNC?
No, you try to pass off all investigations are baseless against Trump which is untrue and I stated some investigations are based on political motivation which come with the territory if you want to be in politics...

Again the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been found guilty of infractions which happens all the time with large corporations and Mitt Romney would know a lot about this along with Huntsman and why did I bring those two up is because they are well known politicians with business holdings...

As for your comment about Russia the fact is I never bought into the Russian influence except that Jill Stein was the one being used and not Trump...

Anyone that can search can find that Stein was in Moscow and met with Russian Officials and all she needed to do was take enough from Hillary Clinton to cause the chaos they were seeking...

Now the left will proclaim what I wrote is pure nonsense and bullshit while wearing their pussy hat, suckling their thumb and crying into their Hillary for President poster but the Russian agent in 2016 was Jill Stein and never Trump...

Now back to Trump the fact is Trump pissed off a lot of people and yes he is being targeted through investigations and is he guilty of some sort of infraction?

Who the hell knows but I will tell you people will dig much harder until he is out of office and to act like this is a surprise or how dare they, well that is politics and like a cheap whore you know sooner or later you will catch something that isn’t right and have to pay the price...
 

DBA

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If Biden wins, he will be the one attempting to pardon himself, that is, if he can’t get the Democratic lackeys in the FBI to stop investigating his family’s pay for play schemes. Based on evidence to day regarding the FBI, he likely won’t have a problem. They are as crooked as he is.
 

citygator

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Politically, Trump pardoning himself and his family would be great for the democrats. The midterm elections are a very bad senate map for the republicans and a scandalous pardoning act by Trump would possibly put the Dems into the 60 territory in the Senate. Trump keeps giving.
 

SmokeALib

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.
Pardon himself from what? MAGA?
Exactly. There are no Trump crimes/indictments to address with a "pardon".
The FBI is investigating the Bidens for money laundering and influence peddling and illegal lobbying and....
I am guessing the OP is suggesting that Donald John Trump is being investigated by the State of New York and that is why they asked this asinine question...

Now do you want to pretend no investigation is going on at State level?
So its another democrat fishing expedition, not anything illegal.
I'm sure Trump has more than a few layers of protection from any legal issues, even at the state level.
How do you know if he is guilty or innocent until all evidence is shown?

Trump has broken the law numerous times and paid the fines that were required of him, so I am not surprised that he is being investigated...

So as you proclaim it is a fishing expedition the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been in violation many times and this is nothing new but still it tell you why the OP asked the asinine question in the first place...
Bullshit. Trump could drop a white house pen on the sidewalk and you worthless leftist traitors would have him under investigation for littering before he picked it back up.
Wow, another unhinged response by those making more false claims about a poster that is neither left nor right.

First off Trump has been investigated for decades and is under investigation by the State of New York and has been under audit by the IRS before becoming President, so nothing new and yet you will disagree and proclaim it is all because he is a Republican President...

Trump and his corporations have been hit with fines since the 1970’s by the Federal Government, so investigations into Trump businesses have been going on probably longer than you have been alive...

I know this blow your theory Trump is being targeted for his willingness to sacrifice his private life to be your messiah of a President and some investigations might well be political which come with the game he want to play, but still reality is Trump has been investigated for decades and this is nothing new...

Now go wrap yourself in your Trumptard flag, suckle your thumb and hold your Trump Bear and deny all I wrote when there is a well documented history of Trump past that you kindly forget...

Just imagine if Biden had so many business violations and how you would kick and scream or imagine if Trump were still a Democratic Party donor and how you would spit on him...
I'm not saying Trump has never been investigated dumbass. I'm saying he is always being investigated. Yet, here he is - President of the United States - in spite of these bullshit investigations. Success does have its drawbacks. If the less successful can't have a piece of that pie, they investigate. Wasn't the Russia narrative an "investigation" by the FBI - fueled by purposely leaked misinformation by the DNC?
No, you try to pass off all investigations are baseless against Trump which is untrue and I stated some investigations are based on political motivation which come with the territory if you want to be in politics...

Again the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been found guilty of infractions which happens all the time with large corporations and Mitt Romney would know a lot about this along with Huntsman and why did I bring those two up is because they are well known politicians with business holdings...

As for your comment about Russia the fact is I never bought into the Russian influence except that Jill Stein was the one being used and not Trump...

Anyone that can search can find that Stein was in Moscow and met with Russian Officials and all she needed to do was take enough from Hillary Clinton to cause the chaos they were seeking...

Now the left will proclaim what I wrote is pure nonsense and bullshit while wearing their pussy hat, suckling their thumb and crying into their Hillary for President poster but the Russian agent in 2016 was Jill Stein and never Trump...

Now back to Trump the fact is Trump pissed off a lot of people and yes he is being targeted through investigations and is he guilty of some sort of infraction?

Who the hell knows but I will tell you people will dig much harder until he is out of office and to act like this is a surprise or how dare they, well that is politics and like a cheap whore you know sooner or later you will catch something that isn’t right and have to pay the price...
Huh? Jill Stein? The DNC was after an inconsequential green party wacko - not Trump? The entire Moeller investigation was to bring down Jill Stein? Am I missing something here?
And no, you didn't bring up Russia - I did. After all, it was an "investigation". We were talking about Trump's numerous "investigations", so I brought up the one that attempted to dislodge him from the white house.
 

beautress

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.
Frogen, in this Republic, families must raise children to be devoted to rightness through religion of their own choosing.

Somewhere, we got off track, and it is a matter of being long ago or not so long ago. Deists believe in God, but frequently do not live within the parameters of associations and adherence to moral principles that are stable enough to be decent enough to take care of one's own family members borh old and young. That's why deism fails the religion test, religion being organized to make certain its family of believers discipline its members to do goodness activities and to avoid doing badness acts. Because of venereal diseases, religion requires fidelity of individuals to the confines of one man to one woman, to insure no illness befalls the other. In this country, that was defined early on with the exception of those who could not refrain from untoward liaisons that led to consort houses, and society allowed that until doctors were overwhelmed with too much treatment for venereal issues that pzid cash on the barrelhead, and too little time for poor families who had less than two pennies to rub together, iow no pay in the winter with no garden vegetables or other staples gleaned during summer weather. So families lost a lot of little children to care for parents in their old age.

Attitudes have changed toward seniors, too. American people tend to leave home for a new life a thousand miles away or stick around complaining about their irresponsible siblings who neither pitch in to help nor help with finances.

Tolerance is nice, but taking what once were obligations to take care of each other including support from other church members creates resentment if one person is treated better than another, someone's nose is bound to get out of joint in a fit of sibling rivalry.

And some "religions" are so rigorous they become political systems
Therefore, older people are at risk for suicide if their thesis is to never burden children with their problems including life-threatening illnesses. And the partner who is married to Mr. Or Mrs. Martyr is subject to depression with that kind of a loss, whether too young or too old. What adult children do not know is that someday their arms and legs hurt, swell, cramp, or develop intolerable itching. Had they accepted faithfulness to God, they would have a ten commandment moral code that obligates them to respect parents, and in a tolerant society, kids can pawn off obedience to a credo to pawning off parents as somebody else's problem, which further gets relegated to the government in a free society.

It's way too complex for government to become "the nanny," ,"the teacher," "the father," "the mother," "the cook, waiter, seamstress, grocer, busboy, judge, jury, nurturer, repairer, clown, and entertainer," or is it?

Right now, America has 2 choices:

Gummint, the nanny with control
OR:
Government of the free person who does right and employs common sense of taking care of self and family responsibilities.

We will always have exceptions. Accidents and debilitating illnesses can change a caregiver into a dependent in the twinkling of an eye.

So far, we can either keep trying in the parameters of our present situation or go for a society of enslavement to a kingpin situation.

Be careful of what you vote for.
 

kyzr

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.
Pardon himself from what? MAGA?
Exactly. There are no Trump crimes/indictments to address with a "pardon".
The FBI is investigating the Bidens for money laundering and influence peddling and illegal lobbying and....
I am guessing the OP is suggesting that Donald John Trump is being investigated by the State of New York and that is why they asked this asinine question...

Now do you want to pretend no investigation is going on at State level?
So its another democrat fishing expedition, not anything illegal.
I'm sure Trump has more than a few layers of protection from any legal issues, even at the state level.
How do you know if he is guilty or innocent until all evidence is shown?

Trump has broken the law numerous times and paid the fines that were required of him, so I am not surprised that he is being investigated...

So as you proclaim it is a fishing expedition the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been in violation many times and this is nothing new but still it tell you why the OP asked the asinine question in the first place...
EVIDENCE?? WHAT FUCKING CRIME?
Joe Biden would be more likely to pardon himself before Trump. The wheels are falling off the Biden money machine.
 

basquebromance

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the title doesn't make the man, the man makes the title

THE MAN MUST MAKE THE TITLE

MAN UP, DONALD! MAN UP, DONALD! MAN UP, DONALD! MAN UP, DONALD!
 

BrokeLoser

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.
Pardon himself from what? MAGA?
No that is a T shirt marketing opportunity.

From tax investigations and his business dealings while in the presidency.

He did not go blind trust. That usually protects Presidents from business dealings they profit from while in the Presidency.

The courts are loathe to move on those with a sitting President, they will move if they find illegal dealings when he leaves office.

Whether he is guilty of breaking the law or not in these or other areas, I think Trump is the type to just say "we are not going there, I am pardoning myself."
 

Eric Arthur Blair

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So as you proclaim it is a fishing expedition the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been in violation many times and this is nothing new but still it tell you why the OP asked the asinine question in the first place...
Going on fishing expeditions to take down our esteemed President in nothing new...just ask Adam Schiff
Robett Mueller and the democrat leadership. How did that turn out for you?
 
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Jake Winker Frogen

Jake Winker Frogen

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You fought a war to get rid of a king but you grant regal privileges to selected citizens. Bizarre.

This is the core of it. Presidential pardoning power is expansive and was probably derived from previous notions of the mercy of the crown but impeachment power by the Congress and the express ban on a President pardoning himself in that regard indicates the power is limited.

There are two legal philosophies in regard to constitutional interpretation that would apply here.

Elastic or originalist.

The former would say it can be inferred from the impeachment ban that a President cannot pardon himself for any reason the later would say it only mentions impeachment, that is all that applies.

We will see.
 
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Jake Winker Frogen

Jake Winker Frogen

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So as you proclaim it is a fishing expedition the fact is Trump and his corporations have been investigated for decades and have been in violation many times and this is nothing new but still it tell you why the OP asked the asinine question in the first place...
Going on fishing expeditions to take down our esteemed President in nothing new...just ask Adam Schiff
Robett Mueller and the democrat leadership. How did that turn out for you?

Well that is the point, if there is nothing to worry about he will not mass pardon, let alone himself.

But even if he thinks he has broken no law his taxes are being investigated in New York and the fact he refused to go into a blind trust with his business affairs is going to cause a lot of legal headaches when he leaves office, perhaps even civil suites because any Presidential decision he made that also made him money, whether that was his intention or not, will be subject to legal challenge.

So he may just try and pardon simply to avoid years of legal costs.
 

lennypartiv

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Trump should pardon himself. It would be a bonus to see libs throw hissy fits.
 

Dana7360

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It is interesting, a president can pardon even people in investigations which possibly involve him, as Bush Sr. did with Iran Contra. Bush pardoned convicted members of the former Reagan administration and even Casper Weinberger who was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.

A trial that may have provided evidence Bush as Vice President under Reagan knew all about Iran Contra and facilitated it.
Bush pardoned Weinberger before his trial.

Thus ending the trial.

So a President can use pardon as protection from legal prosecution, not only as clemency to the convicted.

Trump has a lot of power to pardon.

If he loses the election can he pardon himself?

Basic Western rule of law since the rise of an independent judiciary and legislative bodies would argue no, a self pardon is playing judge over oneself and hence an absolutist power not consistent with checks and balances.

But the constitution is silent on the subject.

Except it bans a President pardoning himself during impeachment. That could be construed to mean he cannot be judge over his own actions in this regard?

Or if one is a by the letter originalist it can be seen as only applying to impeachment?

Because I reckon Trump is going to issue a broad but vague personal pardon for everything he has ever done up to that point.

The Supreme Court is in for a fun time.


A presidential pardon only pardons federal crimes.

The only person who can pardon someone for state crimes is the governor of that specific state.

Sure he can go ahead and try to pardon himself but that won't stop the state of NY from moving forward with prosecuting him and putting him in prison.

There isn't one thing trump or anyone else can do to stop it or prevent it.
 

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