Can a good Muslim be a good American?

[007]

Can a good Muslim be a good American? ​

I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.


The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.



Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.

Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

Pass it on Fellow Americans. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.

 

[Annie]

Dang, glad to see you. I agree with this post, in many ways. If they wish to be 'less Muslim' which many do, they can be good Americans.

I look at it like Catholic reps. They can be 'Catholic' is they do not vote for any pro-abortion legislation; but to be true Americans, they have got to back the laws on the books. They can work to have them undone, but they have to support them.

 

[007]

Dang, glad to see you. I agree with this post, in many ways. If they wish to be 'less Muslim' which many do, they can be good Americans.

I look at it like Catholic reps. They can be 'Catholic' is they do not vote for any pro-abortion legislation; but to be true Americans, they have got to back the laws on the books. They can work to have them undone, but they have to support them.

And that's the whole point of the above commentary I guess. If a muslim stay's true to the muslim way's, then they simply can NOT be a good American.

 

[Annie]

And that's the whole point of the above commentary I guess. If a muslim stay's true to the muslim way's, then they simply can NOT be a good American.

Yup! Again, most hearty welcome back!

 

[007]

Yup! Again, most hearty welcome back!

Thanks Kathy, and we'll see if any drama develops with me being back or not. If so, I hope it's short lived.

 

[mattskramer]

Can a good Muslim be a good American? ​

I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.


The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.



Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.

Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

Pass it on Fellow Americans. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.

http://www.topix.net/forum/world/middle-east/TB2Q2OLTKOLJL9271

 

[Annie]

http://www.topix.net/forum/world/middle-east/TB2Q2OLTKOLJL9271

Thanks for the link, I meant to do that.

 

[007]

Thanks for the link, I meant to do that.

It was sent to me in an email, and there wasn't any link with it... sorry.

 

[Annie]

It was sent to me in an email, and there wasn't any link with it... sorry.

No problem.

 

[mattskramer]

I just don't have the time to refute each item in that post. The person who replied to it on the link that I cited did a good job in my opinion. Anyway, for a good web site about Muslim Americans, check out:

http://www.asmahasan.com/reviews/archives/cat_why_i_am_a_muslim_an_american_odyssey.html

Good night

 

[Nuc]

As much as I despise Islamofascism I think this theory is an exaggeration. I personally know several who are fine Americans, and I would guess more informed and serious about politics than the average native born American. There are a wide range of Muslims just as there are Christians. Think of Jesuits and Southern Baptists. Quite different. There is an intellectual wing of Islam where they would be able to hold more than one opposing viewpoint in mind without crumbling. My vote is yes, some good Muslims can also be good Americans.

Definitions of "good Muslim" and "good American" are probably the bigger argument.

 

[Annie]

As much as I despise Islamofascism I think this theory is an exaggeration. I personally know several who are fine Americans, and I would guess more informed and serious about politics than the average native born American. There are a wide range of Muslims just as there are Christians. Think of Jesuits and Southern Baptists. Quite different. There is an intellectual wing of Islam where they would be able to hold more than one opposing viewpoint in mind without crumbling. My vote is yes, some good Muslims can also be good Americans.

Definitions of "good Muslim" and "good American" are probably the bigger argument.

And that is the crux of the matter.

 

[Nuc]

And that is the crux of the matter.

Yeah, but we could turn this argument around and make the same kind of point about Christians or Jews. Some Christians and some Jews place their religions before their nationality and some don't. I would guess that there are Muslims who likewise know how to juggle it. There are plenty of Muslims in this country who don't have multiple wives for example.

This was the kind of argument they used against JFK. And they discussed in relation to Lieberman.

 

[Annie]

Yeah, but we could turn this argument around and make the same kind of point about Christians or Jews. Some Christians and some Jews place their religions before their nationality and some don't. I would guess that there are Muslims who likewise know how to juggle it. There are plenty of Muslims in this country who don't have multiple wives for example.

This was the kind of argument they used against JFK. And they discussed in relation to Lieberman.

If the only problem were multiple spouses, my guess, we'd work around it. To me the big problem is how many in Western nations, not necessarily the US, defend/'understand' where the terrorists are coming from.

That scares me more than the relatively small number of activists.

 

[1549]

If the only problem were multiple spouses, my guess, we'd work around it. To me the big problem is how many in Western nations, not necessarily the US, defend/'understand' where the terrorists are coming from.

That scares me more than the relatively small number of activists.

You and I would agree terrorism is a problem. Can you think of a single problem on this planet that can be solved without understanding its causes?

Understanding where the terrorists are coming from is essential to stopping that sort of violent behavior. Right now you and I can not relate to an arab terrorist. If we look into what causes a person to turn to such terrible methods of protest, we might find the deepest underlying problems. Then we can create a solution.

Too many people turn first to feelings of anger and retaliation. Those emotions will only exacerbate the tensions that exist. Understanding is the most important thing on this planet. It opens up answers that will otherwise never be found.

 

[Annie]

You and I would agree terrorism is a problem. Can you think of a single problem on this planet that can be solved without understanding its causes?

Understanding where the terrorists are coming from is essential to stopping that sort of violent behavior. Right now you and I can not relate to an arab terrorist. If we look into what causes a person to turn to such terrible methods of protest, we might find the deepest underlying problems. Then we can create a solution.

Too many people turn first to feelings of anger and retaliation. Those emotions will only exacerbate the tensions that exist. Understanding is the most important thing on this planet. It opens up answers that will otherwise never be found.

What if what you finally 'understand' is not what you wanted or expected? What if it isn't oppression, condescension, or anything we did? What if it's because they want 'something' we can't go along with?

 

[1549]

What if what you finally 'understand' is not what you wanted or expected? What if it isn't oppression, condescension, or anything we did? What if it's because they want 'something' we can't go along with?

An entire ethnic community can not be born wanting the same thing. A 'want' is not innate. A 'want' that is shared by millions and evokes such passion and incites killing would likely be caused by some form of indoctrination.

Once that has been realized, we can try to 'understand' what makes this region so vulnerable to this form of cultural brainwash. As stated before: understanding breeds solutions.

 

[Annie]

An entire ethnic community can not be born wanting the same thing. A 'want' is not innate. A 'want' that is shared by millions and evokes such passion and incites killing would likely be caused by some form of indoctrination.

Once that has been realized, we can try to 'understand' what makes this region so vulnerable to this form of cultural brainwash. As stated before: understanding breeds solutions.

Sorry, I beg to differ with your perceptions. That is what the 'understanding breeds solutions.' Tell me once, once, where 'talks' worked prior to a military win? I refer of course, to a comparable 'hot' situation, not border disputes...

 

[1549]

Sorry, I beg to differ with your perceptions. That is what the 'understanding breeds solutions.' Tell me once, once, where 'talks' worked prior to a military win? I refer of course, to a comparable 'hot' situation, not border disputes...

You are jumping to conclusions. In a perfect world, understanding would always lead to a peaceful solution. Perhaps it is even so in this world, we will never know because people are just too damn quick to pull the trigger.

Now back to the original issue. Hitler persuaded Germany to kill millions of Jews. Do Germans naturally hate Jews? Of course not. Hatred of a race/ethnicity could never be genetic. When Hitler was gone, the problem of Germans killing Jews died as well. Hindsight allows us to understand what risk factors made it possible for the Germans to support Hitler.

The middle east is in the same boat as Germany prior to WWII. They are poor, they have been victimized, they have been betrayed, they are a prideful people, and they are looking for those people who can give them glory. Unfortunately, they have placed their trust in terrorist leaders and others of that nature--manipulators.

So tell me what any campaign in the middle east will accomplish if we do not give significantly better the lives of the people there. Any sort of an "us vs. them" mindset will not at all lead the world to safety.

 

[Annie]

You are jumping to conclusions. In a perfect world, understanding would always lead to a peaceful solution. Perhaps it is even so in this world, we will never know because people are just too damn quick to pull the trigger.

Now back to the original issue. Hitler persuaded Germany to kill millions of Jews. Do Germans naturally hate Jews? Of course not. Hatred of a race/ethnicity could never be genetic. When Hitler was gone, the problem of Germans killing Jews died as well. Hindsight allows us to understand what risk factors made it possible for the Germans to support Hitler.

The middle east is in the same boat as Germany prior to WWII. They are poor, they have been victimized, they have been betrayed, they are a prideful people, and they are looking for those people who can give them glory. Unfortunately, they have placed their trust in terrorist leaders and others of that nature--manipulators.

So tell me what any campaign in the middle east will accomplish if we do not give significantly better the lives of the people there. Any sort of an "us vs. them" mindset will not at all lead the world to safety.

Germany is land, geography. The problem with hating Jews neither started, nor ended with Hitler. He played on something already there and offered a 'solution' to the problem. Ahem, that is why he referred to it as the 'final solution.'

Let's look at your next point and go a little deeper, before proceeding:

Hindsight allows us to understand what risk factors made it possible for the Germans to support Hitler.

Do tell me more, please.