Calling Out Alang1216: The God of Abraham is a myth

[ding]

You don't seem to know what you believe.

I’ve been very clear. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes which is the basis for establishing standards which the Jews did and prospered because of it.

 

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Disagree.


OK, let's look at the resurrection, the key belief of Christianity. Unsurprisingly, I don't believe it actually took place.

1. There is no independent attestation outside of the NT
2. The accounts of the event vary in the NT
3. Occam's Razor offers several, more believable explanations that don't require the supernatural:
   1. Someone was impersonating Jesus
   2. Someone thought they saw him
   3. Someone made up the story

If you are ready to move on to the NT, I’d be happy to address this. Or is there more you’d like to discuss regarding to the OT?

 

[alang1216]

People, nations, same difference. Try thinking in terms of order and harmony instead of disorder and discord. Organizing is the process of arranging “things” in a structured and efficient manner to achieve a desired outcome.

Was the Roman Empire not organized in a structured and efficient manner?

 

[alang1216]

I haven’t moved any goalposts. What part of even when slavery existed there were people who did not agree with that standard did you not understand?

So you agree that slavery WAS a standard?

Ergo standards exist for logical reasons. Not having slavery is logical because people aren’t property to be disposed of at the will of its owner. That is the true standard, has always been the true standard and will always be the true standard regardless whether some jackanape rationalize its not.

So you set the 'true' standard for others? Not for the first time you see things as you wish them to be.

 

[alang1216]

Great. Now ask yourself how they knew what to write about things that occurred thousands before that if not from an oral tradition?

Oral traditions are fluid, writing sets them permanently. The NT was an oral tradition for only a few decades before being written down but it shows there were already multiple oral versions floating around. Much more time passed between Abraham and Babylon.

 

[alang1216]

Because they could do it. Apparently man has an innate need to follow; to be organized. Look at all of the political clowns on this board and tell me they aren’t slaves to their political masters.

But regardless, you are making an idiotic argument. You are not property.

So our founding fathers were idiots? Did God ever forbid slavery or did He just set down rules for it? Is He an idiot?

 

[alang1216]

You’re kidding, right?

Conspiracy theory much? Because again… the point of the account was leaving Egypt and establishing laws because that’s what they believed they were chosen to do. Is that captured in your conspiracy theory? Because if not this is where I remind you that you are making it about the embellishments instead of the key message. They left. They established laws.

So which are the embellishments?

• the burning bush
• the plagues
• the parting of the Red Sea
• the manna from Heaven
• the fall of Jericho

If these are all 'embellishments' where does the God of Abraham appear?

 

[alang1216]

I’ve been very clear. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes which is the basis for establishing standards which the Jews did and prospered because of it.

Did the Jews establish the standards or did they come from a divinity? Seems to me that if people establish standards they will change as the people change, but if God established standards they would not change. Not true?

 

[alang1216]

If you are ready to move on to the NT, I’d be happy to address this. Or is there more you’d like to discuss regarding to the OT?

Happy to move on but I'm still unclear where you think God appears in the OT verses the embellishments I should ignore.

 

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Was the Roman Empire not organized in a structured and efficient manner?

Seriously? How many fringe arguments are you going to make?

 

[ding]

So you agree that slavery WAS a standard?

A very poor standard. Not THE standard. The standard is that human beings are not property.

 

[ding]

So you set the 'true' standard for others? Not for the first time you see things as you wish them to be.

Logic does. Standards exist for logical reasons and when deviance to the standard is normalized, the reason the standard exists will be discovered. Error cannot stand eventually it will fail.

 

[ding]

Oral traditions are fluid, writing sets them permanently. The NT was an oral tradition for only a few decades before being written down but it shows there were already multiple oral versions floating around. Much more time passed between Abraham and Babylon.

When was the first account about Abraham written and how long after the time of Abraham was it written?

Because I am telling you that that account was commonly known before it was written. And that would only be possible because of an oral tradition of passing it down.

 

[ding]

So our founding fathers were idiots? Did God ever forbid slavery or did He just set down rules for it? Is He an idiot?

You know so little. The founding fathers believed slavery was against the natural law but knew not how to end it and form the union.

As for your cleverness, you are outsmarting yourself. Be curious, not judgmental. You’ll be happier and have more success.

 

[ding]

So which are the embellishments?

• the burning bush
• the plagues
• the parting of the Red Sea
• the manna from Heaven
• the fall of Jericho

If these are all 'embellishments' where does the God of Abraham appear?

I already covered that. The important thing for you to remember is to not let the embellishments get in the way of interpreting the accounts. Unless of course you aren’t interested in discovering the truth.

 

[ding]

Did the Jews establish the standards or did they come from a divinity? Seems to me that if people establish standards they will change as the people change, but if God established standards they would not change. Not true?

The natural law is written into the hearts of man. Jesus did a really good job condensing it.

You are being an idiot here. Truth is discovered. You are free to do and believe anything you want but you are not free from experiencing the consequences of your choices. So things pretty much work themselves out all on their own. You can either learn from them or keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

[ding]

Happy to move on but I'm still unclear where you think God appears in the OT verses the embellishments I should ignore.

Of course you are. You argue that virtue isn’t the greatest organizing principle despite your own personal experiences which tell you it is. So I am under no illusion you will have an honest discussion about any of this.

 

[alang1216]

When was the first account about Abraham written and how long after the time of Abraham was it written?

Because I am telling you that that account was commonly known before it was written. And that would only be possible because of an oral tradition of passing it down.

That oral tradition may have endured for a thousand years. Plenty of time to evolve.

 

[ding]

That oral tradition may have endured for a thousand years. Plenty of time to evolve.

I think the accounts pretty much stayed the same. It was the understanding that probably was lost.

 

[alang1216]

You know so little. The founding fathers believed slavery was against the natural law but knew not how to end it and form the union.

I guess you're right, I had no idea that every founding father believed the same things. Writing the Constitution must have been a snap.

As for your cleverness, you are outsmarting yourself. Be curious, not judgmental. You’ll be happier and have more success.

Thanks for the advice but I'm already happy and successful and, IMHO, am able to see the world as it is, not how I'd prefer it to be. Accept that and you’ll be happier and have more success.