Calling Out Alang1216: The God of Abraham is a myth

[ding]

Embellishments.

What's your evidence for that? Because Jesus was accused of sorcery.

 

[alang1216]

Not really. There are only two options. Either it is exactly as described or someone took his dead body. If it had been the Jews, they would have pointed to his dead body and say, see, he's still dead. If it had been his disciples it would prove a secret plan to commit a conspiracy.

So I come back to there are only two options; either it's true or a conspiracy to commit fraud.

Or his body could have suffered the fate of most crucifixion victims,

After crucifixion, Roman authorities typically left the bodies on the crosses to decompose and be consumed by scavengers like birds and wild dogs, a deliberate act of deterrence and humiliation. However, in some cases, the bodies might be removed from the cross, then tossed into a common pit or burial site with other refuse. Exceptions occurred, such as wealthy families bribing officials for a proper burial, or under Jewish law which mandated burial before sundown, though this was often disregarded by Roman authorities.

Not a story that would inspire people to follow Jesus.

 

[alang1216]

What's your evidence for that? Because Jesus was accused of sorcery.

I don't believe in 'sorcery'.

 

[ding]

Or his body could have suffered the fate of most crucifixion victims,

After crucifixion, Roman authorities typically left the bodies on the crosses to decompose and be consumed by scavengers like birds and wild dogs, a deliberate act of deterrence and humiliation. However, in some cases, the bodies might be removed from the cross, then tossed into a common pit or burial site with other refuse. Exceptions occurred, such as wealthy families bribing officials for a proper burial, or under Jewish law which mandated burial before sundown, though this was often disregarded by Roman authorities.

Not a story that would inspire people to follow Jesus.

Any evidence for that?

 

[ding]

I don't believe in 'sorcery'.

Which is why you deny everything supernatural. What was it you said? If you had witnessed the miracles performed by Jesus you would have believe he were God too?

Well that's exactly what happened. They witnessed the miracles, saw the risen Christ and believed. Which is why they came out of hiding after their leader was put to death and boldly proclaimed Jesus is God despite persecution, imprisonment and death.

So the simplest explanation is that everything is true. The more complicated explanation is your narrative.

 

[ding]

I don't believe in 'sorcery'.

Do you have any evidence at all?

 

[alang1216]

Any evidence for that?

History.

 

[ding]

History.

Prove it.

 

[alang1216]

Which is why you deny everything supernatural. What was it you said? If you had witnessed the miracles performed by Jesus you would have believe he were God too?

Well that's exactly what happened. They witnessed the miracles, saw the risen Christ and believed. Which is why they came out of hiding after their leader was put to death and boldly proclaimed Jesus is God despite persecution, imprisonment and death.

So the simplest explanation is that everything is true. The more complicated explanation is your narrative.

How does that simple explanation jibe with Jesus' apostles not knowing who or what he was in Mark?

 

[alang1216]

Do you have any evidence at all?

Evidence for sorcery? No first hand knowledge, do you?

 

[alang1216]

Prove it.

Prove what?

 

[alang1216]

Not really. There are only two options. Either it is exactly as described or someone took his dead body. If it had been the Jews, they would have pointed to his dead body and say, see, he's still dead. If it had been his disciples it would prove a secret plan to commit a conspiracy.

So I come back to there are only two options; either it's true or a conspiracy to commit fraud.

And I maintain there are additional options that don't require supernatural intervention.

 

[ding]

How does that simple explanation jibe with Jesus' apostles not knowing who or what he was in Mark?

Because the Gospel of Mark presents a deliberate literary portrayal where the reader is meant to understand Jesus' true identity as the Son of God, while his disciples, the apostles, struggle with misunderstanding and doubt due to their inability to grasp the meaning of his suffering and death. This is achieved through a "messianic secret" theme, where Jesus intentionally obscures his identity and mission, leading to the disciples' ignorance about the true nature of the Messiah, even failing to recognize his resurrection.

In other words it was written intentionally that way. I'm surprised that such an astute biblical scholar such as yourself never knew this.

Especially since I explained this to you in August already.

 

[ding]

Evidence for sorcery? No first hand knowledge, do you?

No. Evidence that Jesus wasn't accused of sorcery. The biblical narrative that Jesus was condemned to death for performing miracles (i.e. sorcery) is independently confirmed by non-Christian sources.

Where is your historical source that he wasn't?

 

[ding]

Prove what?

That the body of Jesus was left on the cross to decompose and be consumed by scavengers and wild dogs. Bones and all. Do you have any evidence for that? So again, what happened to his corpse if he did not rise from the dead as stated in the NT?

Or his body could have suffered the fate of most crucifixion victims,

After crucifixion, Roman authorities typically left the bodies on the crosses to decompose and be consumed by scavengers like birds and wild dogs, a deliberate act of deterrence and humiliation. However, in some cases, the bodies might be removed from the cross, then tossed into a common pit or burial site with other refuse. Exceptions occurred, such as wealthy families bribing officials for a proper burial, or under Jewish law which mandated burial before sundown, though this was often disregarded by Roman authorities.

Not a story that would inspire people to follow Jesus.

Any evidence for that?

History.

Prove it.

 

[ding]

And I maintain there are additional options that don't require supernatural intervention.

Such as? A conspiracy to commit fraud?

Because there are 37 distinct miracles attributed to Jesus. That's a whole lot of explanations or one conspiracy theory. Which do you prefer to argue?

 

[alang1216]

Because the Gospel of Mark presents a deliberate literary portrayal where the reader is meant to understand Jesus' true identity as the Son of God, while his disciples, the apostles, struggle with misunderstanding and doubt due to their inability to grasp the meaning of his suffering and death. This is achieved through a "messianic secret" theme, where Jesus intentionally obscures his identity and mission, leading to the disciples' ignorance about the true nature of the Messiah, even failing to recognize his resurrection.

In other words it was written intentionally that way. I'm surprised that such an astute biblical scholar such as yourself never knew this.

Especially since I explained this to you in August already.

So Mark was part of the conspiracy to commit fraud?

 

[alang1216]

No. Evidence that Jesus wasn't accused of sorcery. The biblical narrative that Jesus was condemned to death for performing miracles (i.e. sorcery) is independently confirmed by non-Christian sources.

Where is your historical source that he wasn't?

What were the sources of these non-Christian sources?

 

[alang1216]

That the body of Jesus was left on the cross to decompose and be consumed by scavengers and wild dogs. Bones and all. Do you have any evidence for that? So again, what happened to his corpse if he did not rise from the dead as stated in the NT?

Only that it was standard procedure to not bury the corpse. Since Jesus was a traitor to Roman and they generally left the dead as a warning to the living.

 

[alang1216]

Such as? A conspiracy to commit fraud?

Because there are 37 distinct miracles attributed to Jesus. That's a whole lot of explanations or one conspiracy theory. Which do you prefer to argue?

You claim other Bible miracles were embellishments why shouldn't I believe all of them were?