California Politicians Stick It To Teachers

NATO AIR

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Jun 25, 2004
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how much corporate welfare (or unnecessary social welfare) was given instead of saving the school supplies' tax credit?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/09/16/school.supplies.ap/index.html

Teachers lose tax breaks for class expenses
Thursday, September 16, 2004 Posted: 9:20 AM EDT (1320 GMT)

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- If Doreen Seelig pocketed all the money she has spent on classroom supplies over 35 years as a teacher -- the printer cartridges, the paper, the pencils and the paperback books lent to her Venice High School students -- she figures she would have a new car by now.

Now, as the new school year gets under way, the burden on Seelig and other teachers around the country is even heavier.

Because of a budget crunch, California has suspended a tax credit that reimbursed teachers up to $1,500 for classroom supplies. Meanwhile, a $250 federal tax deduction for teachers that helped defray out-of-pocket spending expired this year.

Seelig said she will still buy hundreds of dollars worth of basic materials that districts do not provide. And she will still drive her 1991 Acura.

"What are we going to do, tell the kids, 'Sorry, there's no paper today,' or tell them they can't print because there's no ink?" Seelig asked. "I know I couldn't do it."

Teachers around the country often reach into their own pockets to buy school supplies for themselves or their students, either because the school system does not provide the money, or because they feel sorry for youngsters from poor homes who come to school without the things they need.

Parent-teacher organizations and private groups often donate supplies, but educators say poor districts still come up short.

For young teachers at the lowest end of the pay scale, the loss of the tax credits is particularly hard.

"The end of the tax benefits is effectively a tax increase for teachers -- people who spend thousands of their own dollars each day for their classrooms and who don't deserve a tax increase," said Barbara Kerr, president of the California Teachers Association.

'It's the kids who end up suffering the most'
Nationwide, teachers spent an average of $458 on school supplies, according to the National School Supply and Equipment Association, a Maryland-based trade group.

The National Education Association and some lawmakers are working to reinstate the federal teacher deduction, which was introduced in 2002 but expired at the end of 2003. Teachers are still entitled to write off business expenses, like other taxpayers, but the amount they spend often does not meet the threshold for taking a deduction.

By ditching its tax break, California joined most of the rest of the nation. National teacher organizations do not keep track, but it appears few states now offer teachers any relief at all.

Arkansas, for example, requires that school districts reimburse teachers for up to $500 of out-of-pocket expenses. Texas officials have allocated $3 million to compensate public school teachers. Between that and local government funding, Texas teachers might reach $400 worth of reimbursements this school year.

Even when tax breaks are proposed, as in Arizona last year, the teachers' lobby may be opposed, saying the solution is more state money for education.

Karl Kaku, an English teacher at Fresno High School for 10 years, said he spent $200 on supplies before this year's classes had even started.

"Stuff to write with, stuff to write on, pens, paper, overhead transparencies, overhead markers, ink cartridges," said Kaku, who makes $56,000 a year. "Some years, there's some money. Others, there's nothing. This year there's nothing."

In the Canoga Park section of Los Angeles, teacher and expectant mother Jennifer Flores said she has already rationed her spending. "We'll do without some of the things I would usually buy," she said. "And the worst thing about it all is that it's the kids who end up suffering the most."

The California credit was first offered in 2000 as a way to keep teachers from quitting. Teachers with four to 11 years in the profession received $250 to $500. Those more experienced could receive up to $1,500.

The credit was suspended in 2002 as state legislators battled a budget gap. It was resurrected for the 2003-04 tax year, at a cost of $180 million to the state. Last month, legislators suspended the relief until 2007. Parent and teacher groups, as well as private companies, are scrambling to cushion the blow.

The Los Angeles teachers union recently teamed up with a Spanish-language radio station in asking donors for such things as glue sticks, pencils, crayons, manila folders, even socks and underwear for poorer districts.

One Web site, iLoveSchools.com, matches teachers around the country with donors. The nonprofit organization, launched in July, said it has received about $90,000 in donations.
 
This is so typical. We will give big business tax breaks for corporate jets, vacation homes, etc as "business expenses" but we don't allow teachers to take a tax credits for making sure their students have paper and pens.

Typical. Pathetic.

acludem
 
Telus donated school bags full of supplies to each child that attends my daughters school this yearwhich probably saved me about $40.00. Someone else also buys each child who completes grade 6 a new bike, helmet and lock every year (I forget the donars name). THe generosity and willingness to help that exsists within this community is something I've never seen before, and inspires ME to want to give something back. Wealthier people and business owners have taken over where the government has cut back, which is a good thing because a lot of the kids really have nothing.
 
Said1 said:
Telus donated school bags full of supplies to each child that attends my daughters school this yearwhich probably saved me about $40.00. Someone else also buys each child who completes grade 6 a new bike, helmet and lock every year (I forget the donars name). THe generosity and willingness to help that exsists within this community is something I've never seen before, and inspires ME to want to give something back. Wealthier people and business owners have taken over where the government has cut back, which is a good thing because a lot of the kids really have nothing.

I agree Said1. My children were lucky enough to always be in 'wealthy' school districts, yeah we didn't have the housing we could have in a 'less expensive area' but it's all about choices.

Since 9/11, the state has had much less money to spread around, rightly in my opinion, they have cut back on the wealthier districts more. 2 years ago, our high school district, advised us that they were going to have to eliminate several programs, that were extra curricular, as they did not have the dollars to fund them, and they were not cutting back on academic programs. The parents got together and raised/donated the money to keep all in place. They recognize the worth of school sponsored activities. This year, the district has the money, so fundraising is over for that stuff. In the meantime, there was no increase in taxes.

I teach in private school, contrary to public perceptions, that doesn't mean more money for teachers or students. 3k tuition does NOT cover the cost of educating a child, just look at how much the public schools spend per student. My district at the grammar school level is at $16,700 and for high school $18,900. (Just like college). What that means is that we do not have the science labs, extensive library, etc. Now we do have parents that have the money and inclination to help. The junior high has received over the past 3 years, 40 laptops with wireless internet. One of the parents that owns a computer consulting company, programmed and wired the school for wireless.

In one of the classrooms the blackboards were in such bad shape, that the principal used 'blackboard paint' to try and refresh them, it didn't work well-they look perpetually dirty. The classroom parents decided to put in whiteboards for the room-$1500 worth.

Much better to look at 'citizens', 'parishioners', 'members' than the government.
 
Kathianne said:
I agree Said1. My children were lucky enough to always be in 'wealthy' school districts, yeah we didn't have the housing we could have in a 'less expensive area' but it's all about choices.

Since 9/11, the state has had much less money to spread around, rightly in my opinion, they have cut back on the wealthier districts more. 2 years ago, our high school district, advised us that they were going to have to eliminate several programs, that were extra curricular, as they did not have the dollars to fund them, and they were not cutting back on academic programs. The parents got together and raised/donated the money to keep all in place. They recognize the worth of school sponsored activities. This year, the district has the money, so fundraising is over for that stuff. In the meantime, there was no increase in taxes.

I teach in private school, contrary to public perceptions, that doesn't mean more money for teachers or students. 3k tuition does NOT cover the cost of educating a child, just look at how much the public schools spend per student. My district at the grammar school level is at $16,700 and for high school $18,900. (Just like college). What that means is that we do not have the science labs, extensive library, etc. Now we do have parents that have the money and inclination to help. The junior high has received over the past 3 years, 40 laptops with wireless internet. One of the parents that owns a computer consulting company, programmed and wired the school for wireless.

In one of the classrooms the blackboards were in such bad shape, that the principal used 'blackboard paint' to try and refresh them, it didn't work well-they look perpetually dirty. The classroom parents decided to put in whiteboards for the room-$1500 worth.

Much better to look at 'citizens', 'parishioners', 'members' than the government.


I have a friend who teaches at a private school, and I was very surprised to hear she made less money than with the Ottawa/Carleton Board.

At one time the Catholic Board was seperate from the public board, and had a lot more money. THey have amalgamated both school boards, which was supposed to mean more money, benefiting everyone, but obviously, that's never the case. There is a lot of big money in the area, but they send their kids to the seriously over crowed french school along with their financial support. The odd child can't hack the immersed program, so their parents pay to bus them over to another alternative school in the next district. My daughter's school has some very generous donars, but there aren't any afterschool programs such as sports, art, chior ect.
 
Said1 said:
I have a friend who teaches at a private school, and I was very surprised to hear she made less money than with the Ottawa/Carleton Board.

At one time the Catholic Board was seperate from the public board, and had a lot more money. THey have amalgamated both school boards, which was supposed to mean more money, benefiting everyone, but obviously, that's never the case. There is a lot of big money in the area, but they send their kids to the seriously over crowed french school along with their financial support. The odd child can't hack the immersed program, so their parents pay to bus them over to another alternative school in the next district. My daughter's school has some very generous donars, but there aren't any afterschool programs such as sports, art, chior ect.

In US, private school teachers have always been seriously underpaid, especially church affiliated. While the congregation/parents will pony up for extras, not doing for salaries. I make less than 30k. In public schools, with my experience and education I would be at close to 50k, in this area. With my Masters' closer to 60k.

Parent's do give 'gifts' at Christmas and end of year. Most are 'gift cards' though some are cash. I figure I gain about $500 from gifts, and the parents really like me. As you can see, doesn't make up for the short fall...
 
Kathianne said:
In US, private school teachers have always been seriously underpaid, especially church affiliated. While the congregation/parents will pony up for extras, not doing for salaries. I make less than 30k. In public schools, with my experience and education I would be at close to 50k, in this area. With my Masters' closer to 60k.

Parent's do give 'gifts' at Christmas and end of year. Most are 'gift cards' though some are cash. I figure I gain about $500 from gifts, and the parents really like me. As you can see, doesn't make up for the short fall...

My great aunt worked on her degree for at least 10 years. She took a course at a time all year round, and had to drive an hour each way to get to classes. Her salary went from 25-55k when she finally fininshed. She retired 5 yrs later with a nice fat pension (based on last five years salary). She taught spec ed in rural Ontario through out most of her career. She swears she could teach a dog to read, and probably could, the women is relentless and shows no mercy.

$500 isn't bad, but your right, teacher do not get paid enough!
 
Said1 said:
My great aunt worked on her degree for at least 10 years. She took a course at a time all year round, and had to drive an hour each way to get to classes. Her salary went from 25-55k when she finally fininshed. She retired 5 yrs later with a nice fat pension (based on last five years salary). She taught spec ed in rural Ontario through out most of her career. She swears she could teach a dog to read, and probably could, the women is relentless and shows no mercy.

$500 isn't bad, but your right, teacher do not get paid enough!

Considering how bad the teachers are doing, for the most part I'd say they were overpaid, at least in our public schools. It is an unfortunate truism that those that can't, teach. This is less true for secondary teachers, but not entirely. Too many fall back on platitudes, rather than actually keeping their skills up to date.
 
Kathianne said:
Considering how bad the teachers are doing, for the most part I'd say they were overpaid, at least in our public schools. It is an unfortunate truism that those that can't, teach. This is less true for secondary teachers, but not entirely. Too many fall back on platitudes, rather than actually keeping their skills up to date.

It's a shame for those who (like you) do take their jobs seriously. We all remember the teachers who can, and those who can't. It's a hard job regardless of intentions. The thought of teaching 14 yr olds math literally makes my skin crawl.
This was me in high school: :gives: :rock: :boobies: :smoke: :dev2:

Not necesarily in that order, I was never a slave to routine. :D
 
Said1 said:
It's a shame for those who (like you) do take their jobs seriously. We all remember the teachers who can, and those who can't. It's a hard job regardless of intentions. The thought of teaching 14 yr olds math literally makes my skin crawl.
This was me in high school: :gives: :rock: :boobies: :smoke: :dev2:

Not necesarily in that order, I was never a slave to routine. :D

Thanks Said1. Bottom line at 14 the first order of business is to let the students know you see them as individuals. That's my point of reference. From that point, I teach!
 
when i mean corporate welfare btw, i mean like giving money to companies to stay in the state (like NC foolishly does for textile companies to stay in NC, employing only a few hundred people at a cost of millions to the state)

i recognize and value the support corporations and businesses have given to schools and teachers (like Target, Sony, Microsoft, Crayola, etc etc)
 
Giving teachers tax breaks for purchasing classroom supplies is counter-productive. Now before everyone gets huffy, hear me out.

Burearocracies ALWAYS seek the path of least resistance. It is the job of the school administration to furnish the school supplies necessary for teachers to function in the classroom. It is the job of the principal and the school board to formulate and implement a budget and budget requests. If there is insufficient money available to the school, it is possible that someone in the chain is simply not doing his/her job. Why should the principal or school board jump through hoops to seek additional funding if the school manages to operate by having teachers purchase supplies? So if teachers pay for their own supplies, then that process becomes institutionalized and reform becomes even less likely. The buck has been passed and the system hums along fat, dumb and happy. Except for the teachers that are coughing up their own money to purchase the products that should be available from the supply room.

I know that it is an unpleasant thing for a caring, professional teacher who must deal with shortages. But in the long run, the solution does not lie in shortcuts - and make no mistake about it - having teachers purchase their own supplies is exactly that - a shortcut. The solution lies in making the public aware that there are problems in the classroom. The solution may involve embarrassing some administrators and politicians and shaming some tightfisted parents.

Public education is a national asset the same as any natural resource. If we continue to neglect the system we will soon see the day where Americans can no longer compete with people from other nations because of the inferior education our young people receive in the public school system. I understand that teachers have a hard time telling their students that certain tasks cannot be accomplished because the money is not there. But the choice is simple - either teachers must be willing to be hard-nosed about demanding that they be supplied properly or teachers need to get used to the notion that nothing will ever change.
 
Merlin1047 said:
But the choice is simple - either teachers must be willing to be hard-nosed about demanding that they be supplied properly or teachers need to get used to the notion that nothing will ever change.


Gottcha. THe squeaky wheel.
 
You don't think teachers help to "produce tax revenue"? Where do you think all those business leaders and politicians got their educations? I'd be willing to bet that a huge percentage got theirs in a school from a TEACHER.

The far-right in this country constantly bashes teachers. These people are vastly underpaid for the work they do. Many of them make less an hour than the people flipping burgers at McDonalds. Parents ask these people to be responsible for and educate their children for many hours a day, as well as spend time preparing lessons, etc., but want to pay them less than the babysitter.

It's time for you righties to stop trashing teachers and start appreciating what they do.

acludem
 

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