But with the subject of tithing,...

[Joz]

One thing to note, though... Levites were more "functionaries" in the Temple. The priests were the Kohanim.

Exactly. I have heard them referred to as High Priests. But they were still part of the Levite tribe.

 

[jillian]

Exactly. I have heard them referred to as High Priests. But they were still part of the Levite tribe.

Gonna have to disagree with you on that one. Cohane is a separate tribe.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Buddhist or not, No1 is correct.

No. Tithing was to support the grisly animal sacrifice rituals of the old way.

 

[Joz]

In my church there are 1400 families and 2 priests. Should the priests make 70 times what the average family makes? With a 10% tithe, and assuming an average family income of $50K, my church would have an annual operating budget of $7 million. If they were providing defense, sanitation, and water supply I’d say that would be reasonable. Otherwise it is extremely excessive.

Our 2006 FY operating budget was about $1.1 million.

So in other words, your going to overrule God?

What would be wrong for the priests to take what they need to live comfortably and then use the rest for church expenses?

 

[Joz]

Gonna have to disagree with you on that one. Cohane is a separate tribe.

Show me.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So in other words, your going to overrule God?

What would be wrong for the priests to take what they need to live comfortably and then use the rest for church expenses?

Because they spend the extra on kiddy porn.

 

[jillian]

Show me.

Kohanim were descendants of Aaron. If you look at my last link, the levites were descendants of Levi.

Kohein
The kohanim are the descendants of Aaron, chosen by God at the time of the incident with the Golden Calf to perform certain sacred work, particularly in connection with the animal sacrifices and the rituals related to the Temple. After the destruction of the Temple, the role of the kohanim diminished significantly in favor of the rabbis; however, we continue to keep track of kohein lineage.

Kohanim are customarily given the first aliyah (i.e., opportunity to recite a blessing over the Torah reading and read from it) on the Sabbath and other days when the Torah is read in public, which is considered an honor. They are also required to recite a special blessing (Numbers 6,24-26) over the congregation in every morning prayer and in additional prayers.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/rabbi.htm

Anyway, like I said. Hope that clarifies things.

Laterz. My lunch is over.

 

[Joz]

No. Tithing was to support the grisly animal sacrifice rituals of the old way.

How do you arrive at this conclusion?

And they were not "grisly animal sacrafices".

These were specific sacrifices, required by God. The father of the family would bring an unblemished lamb to the temple. He would place his hand on the lamb's head, confess the sins of his family to God, & then cut the throat of the lamb. This looked to the future representing the Lamb of God that would come & redeem us from all sin.

As a child I thought this was horrible, as I didn't think I'd have been able to do it, loving animals as I do.
But do you think it worse than Jesus having to be sacrificed?

 

[glockmail]

So in other words, your going to overrule God?

What would be wrong for the priests to take what they need to live comfortably and then use the rest for church expenses?

I'm not overruling God: I am attempting to interpret His meaning based on the current situation, where the government (Federalies, States, local, and all other taxing authorities) take about ½ of my income. The Church no longer provides all of the services that they used to in the Old Testament, so they should not be asking for a full 10% tithe. You so far have refused to acknowledge this simple fact.

Based on my simple assumptions and calculations, my church takes about 1.5 to 2%, not including donations of time or direct donations to other charities, which I’m sure are quite substantial. This puts it a stable fiscal condition as well as able providing charitable works.

In my opinion the fact that many Protestant churches require 10% tithing is blasphemous, and turns many off to their stated mission. I see the way some preachers live. They are obviously taking more than they “need”. Many think this is sacrilegious, unfair, or they simply cannot “afford God”. I’m sure that many think that all churches have this “requirement”. So what purpose does 10% tithing serve? Certainly not God’s intent.

 

[glockmail]

Because they spend the extra on kiddy porn.

Thanks for demonstrating my point on my last response to Joz.

 

[Joz]

Kohanim were descendants of Aaron. If you look at my last link, the levites were descendants of Levi.

Aaron & his sons were annointed into this position. We are not told exactly how this came about before Israel had kings, but I'd bet God had a play in it. The High priest was the only one allowed in the Most Holy place of the sanctuary and they did that once a year.
Herrod appointed some High Priests & in Jesus day two are mentioned, Annas & Caiaphas. They were to be without blemish, the only thing I can find as a requirement.

That still doesn't exempt the Levite tribe of their given ministry and them being paid from the tithes of the people. And you can bet that the High Priests were paid this way as well.

Barnabas was a Levite (Act_4:36). They are among the sealed tribes (Revelation 7). Their name is still preserved in the Jewish Levy, as Cohen is "priest."

 

[dmp]

How are my texts on tithing, not on topic?

I explained that in the text you showed initially - those I quoted. They were talking about finding a portion of one's goods, and sacrificing them to God. We don't NEED animal or goods sacrifice to attone for sins any longer.

 

[Joz]

I'm not overruling God: I am attempting to interpret His meaning based on the current situation, where the government (Federalies, States, local, and all other taxing authorities) take about ½ of my income. The Church no longer provides all of the services that they used to in the Old Testament, so they should not be asking for a full 10% tithe. You so far have refused to acknowledge this simple fact.

Based on my simple assumptions and calculations, my church takes about 1.5 to 2%, not including donations of time or direct donations to other charities, which I’m sure are quite substantial. This puts it a stable fiscal condition as well as able providing charitable works.

In my opinion the fact that many Protestant churches require 10% tithing is blasphemous, and turns many off to their stated mission. I see the way some preachers live. They are obviously taking more than they “need”. Many think this is sacrilegious, unfair, or they simply cannot “afford God”. I’m sure that many think that all churches have this “requirement”. So what purpose does 10% tithing serve? Certainly not God’s intent.

What have I not acknowledged?

And the fact that the goverment takes what they do is a crime. If only they would take just the 10 percent, too. But Jesus instructed us to, "Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's & to God, God's".

No church should require the tithe. It is an act of obedience to God, as I stated before; nothing more. It has little to do with "what the church supplies".

 

[Joz]

I explained that in the text you showed initially - those I quoted. They were talking about finding a portion of one's goods, and sacrificing them to God. We don't NEED animal or goods sacrifice to attone for sins any longer.

Num 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up a heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.
It had nothing to do with what required of the priests.

 

[dmp]

Num 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up a heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.
It had nothing to do with what required of the priests.

Here's that in english - it'll help the discussion:

to say to the Levites:

When you receive from the people of Israel ten percent of their crops and newborn animals, you must offer a tenth of that to me.

Now - tell me, are you a Levite?

 

[glockmail]

What have I not acknowledged?

And the fact that the goverment takes what they do is a crime. If only they would take just the 10 percent, too. But Jesus instructed us to, "Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's & to God, God's".

No church should require the tithe. It is an act of obedience to God, as I stated before; nothing more. It has little to do with "what the church supplies".

You have not acknowledged that the Church no longer supplies certain services and therefore should not be asking us to pay for them.

This fact should be made as clear as possible by all churches, in order to encourage more participation by those individuals that are turned off by a 10% tithe.

 

[dmp]

You have not acknowledged that the Church no longer supplies certain services and therefore should not be asking us to pay for them.

This fact should be made as clear as possible by all churches, in order to encourage more participation by those individuals that are turned off by a 10% tithe.

IMO, the 'ten percent' tithe rule is imposed by people who get a sense of 'goodness' by following specific laws and rules. I think, generally, those types of things (broad-based rule-following to make one holier, etc) are against Christ's message.

 

[Joz]

There are many that aren't "Levites" , but they are called of God to lead. How you expect them to support their families when all they do is pastor, is beyond me.
And just because our churches are not what they once were, well, nothing in this world, except the sinfullness of man, is.

Whether or not the Holy Spirit has convicted you of this, is between you & God.
All we're speaking here is, 10 cents for every dollar; 10 dollars for every hundred. That's not a heck of a lot. And yes, there have been times in my life, where obedience has been difficult.

He promises His blessings. And if through my willful obedience & love to Him I get to be reunited with my son & spend eternity in heaven, how can I say the price was too expensive?

 

[dmp]

There are many that aren't "Levites" , but they are called of God to lead. How you expect them to support their families when all they do is pastor, is beyond me.
And just because our churches are not what they once were, well, nothing in this world, except the sinfullness of man, is.

Whether or not the Holy Spirit has convicted you of this, is between you & God.
All we're speaking here is, 10 cents for every dollar; 10 dollars for every hundred. That's not a heck of a lot. And yes, there have been times in my life, where obedience has been difficult.

He promises His blessings. And if through my willful obedience & love to Him I get to be reunited with my son & spend eternity in heaven, how can I say the price was too expensive?

That's fine - what you just put..that's spot-on. No need to take specific instructions God gave to one group, and try to mass-apply those instructions to every believer who should follow.

I don't tithe at 10% because I think 10% isn't always appropriate. I tithe as the Lord Blesses. Keeping track, or keeping to a schedule doesn't suit my soul.

 

[glockmail]

There are many that aren't "Levites" , but they are called of God to lead. How you expect them to support their families when all they do is pastor, is beyond me.
And just because our churches are not what they once were, well, nothing in this world, except the sinfullness of man, is.

Whether or not the Holy Spirit has convicted you of this, is between you & God.
All we're speaking here is, 10 cents for every dollar; 10 dollars for every hundred. That's not a heck of a lot. And yes, there have been times in my life, where obedience has been difficult.

He promises His blessings. And if through my willful obedience & love to Him I get to be reunited with my son & spend eternity in heaven, how can I say the price was too expensive?

You haven't answered my question as to how you would justify the budget of my church to be 7 times what it is now. Sure, Catholic Priests don't make a lot of dough- they're not supposed to. And no- they don't have families to support. But if we upped their salarilied by a factor of 7 they would be some of the wealthiest men in the area.