Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[Lisa558]

Not just "whitey".

Asians, Hispanics, Southeast Asians, blacks that can't trace their ancestry to whatever arbitrary point they select as the cutoff.

And Jews of course, who didn’t get here until the 20th century, fleeing their own persecution, arriving without a penny, moving into the middle class by the next generation due to their own abilities, hard work, and motivation. Now they’ll be made to pay money to people who were never slaves, and when none of their own people ever had slaves.

It won’t happen. And the more IM2s of the country demand it, coupled with their hostility toward anyone non-black, the less likely it will be.

 

[Libby von H]

You are assuming that the White student would still have gotten in if the Black student was not accepted. That is not the case. You are assuming that all Black college students got a college education because of AA. Also not the case. In addition, AA was set up to address discrimination for multiple groups, not ravism or Jim Crowe specifically.

There are no pure whites, no pure Blacks
Get with the science

The Myth of Race​

The Troubling Persistence of an Unscientific Idea

Robert Wald Sussman

Biological races do not exist—and never have. This view is shared by all scientists who study variation in human populations. Yet racial prejudice and intolerance based on the myth of race remain deeply ingrained in Western society. In his powerful examination of a persistent, false, and poisonous idea, Robert Sussman explores how race emerged as a social construct from early biblical justifications to the pseudoscientific studies of today.

 

[Coyote]

There are no pure whites, no pure Blacks
Get with the science

The Myth of Race​

The Troubling Persistence of an Unscientific Idea

Robert Wald Sussman

Biological races do not exist—and never have. This view is shared by all scientists who study variation in human populations. Yet racial prejudice and intolerance based on the myth of race remain deeply ingrained in Western society. In his powerful examination of a persistent, false, and poisonous idea, Robert Sussman explores how race emerged as a social construct from early biblical justifications to the pseudoscientific studies of today.

Race is largely a social construct. However that doesn’t negate the fact that an entire category of people were deprived of their Constitutional rights based on that construct.

 

[Coyote]

Familial assists, and the reparations were limited.

Every Japanese American who was interred received a $20,000 check and an apology.

If you are trying to make a case that CHILDREN were deprived of assets, well…a family of 5 would have received $100,000 … an individual only $20,000. They received this regardless of actual assets. You are projecting forward an estimate that also applies to African Americans.

Jim Crowe essentially robbed many Black Americans of familial wealth to pass down.

The type described by those idiots in San Fran sure seem like it.

I am not sure that relates to what I said.

 

[JoeB131]

And Jews of course, who didn’t get here until the 20th century, fleeing their own persecution, arriving without a penny, moving into the middle class by the next generation due to their own abilities, hard work, and motivation. Now they’ll be made to pay money to people who were never slaves, and when none of their own people ever had slaves.

It won’t happen. And the more IM2s of the country demand it, coupled with their hostility toward anyone non-black, the less likely it will be.

But when they got here, they benefited from White Privilege, so, um, yeah, it's not unreasonable to ask them to pay the reparations.

Any more than it was unreasonable to ask them to pay reparations to Japanese Americans, even though they had nothing to do with that policy.

 

[martybegan]

Every Japanese American who was interred received a $20,000 check and an apology.

If you are trying to make a case that CHILDREN were deprived of assets, well…a family of 5 would have received $100,000 … an individual only $20,000. They received this regardless of actual assets. You are projecting forward an estimate that also applies to African Americans.

Jim Crowe essentially robbed many Black Americans of familial wealth to pass down.


I am not sure that relates to what I said.

And life did that to my Irish and Italian Ancestors when they risked all to come over here between 1870 and 1920 depending on which grandparent (3) or great great grandparent (1).

And the oldest one was supposedly "volunteered" onto a US navy screw frigate that was short a few sailors and borrowed them from an Italian Merchant ship.

If it was just $10k or $20k you may START to make me consider it, but look at the SF plan proposed:

$5M per resident, then $97k a year in annual income.....

 

[Coyote]

And life did that to my Irish and Italian Ancestors when they risked all to come over here between 1870 and 1920 depending on which grandparent (3) or great great grandparent (1).

And the oldest one was supposedly "volunteered" onto a US navy screw frigate that was short a few sailors and borrowed them from an Italian Merchant ship.

If it was just $10k or $20k you may START to make me consider it, but look at the SF plan proposed:

$5M per resident, then $97k a year in annual income.....

Are any of those people still alive? This should be about reparations to people still alive for specific laws that deprived them of their Constitutional rights. Going back further, including descendants is more difficult to justify and a bit of a strawman.

Look at the SF proposal. It is just one of MANY proposals and unlikely to go anywhere yet people point to it and ignore others. The amount given to the Japanese Americans was not the only proposal, it was the one finally agreed upon as reasonable to ask for and, more important, likely to get.

 

[martybegan]

Are any of those people still alive? This should be about reparations to people still alive for specific laws that deprived them of their Constitutional rights. Going back further, including descendants is more difficult to justify and a bit of a strawman.

Look at the SF proposal. It is just one of MANY proposals and unlikely to go anywhere yet people point to it and ignore others. The amount given to the Japanese Americans was not the only proposal, it was the one finally agreed upon as reasonable to ask for and, more important, likely to get.

The reparations argument is based on going all the way back to slavery, past the failure of reconstruction, through the passing of Plessey, and then finishing at Brown. In fact IM2's is based on his belief that whites will always be racist, and must pay continuously because we are evil.

I don't broker with people like that, or anything they support.

 

[Coyote]

The reparations argument is based on going all the way back to slavery, past the failure of reconstruction, through the passing of Plessey, and then finishing at Brown. In fact IM2's is based on his belief that whites will always be racist, and must pay continuously because we are evil.

I don't broker with people like that, or anything they support.

There are multiple arguments, imo only going for Jim Crowe and those still alive will fly in terms of compensation. But there are other ways to address the legacy of slavery.

 

[martybegan]

There are multiple arguments, imo only going for Jim Crowe and those still alive will fly in terms of compensation. But there are other ways to address the legacy of slavery.

Not that will satisfy grifters like IM2, and those are the ones pushing for all this, denigrating those opposed to it, and basically advocating the destruction of race relations to line his pocket.

The playing field has been levelled, and for the past few decades tilted in favor of minorities in various areas such as higher education slots and government contracts.

Those don't seem to be working, how is giving people a wad of cash to do with what they want without structure going to work?

 

[JoeB131]

And life did that to my Irish and Italian Ancestors when they risked all to come over here between 1870 and 1920 depending on which grandparent (3) or great great grandparent (1).

And the oldest one was supposedly "volunteered" onto a US navy screw frigate that was short a few sailors and borrowed them from an Italian Merchant ship.

If it was just $10k or $20k you may START to make me consider it, but look at the SF plan proposed:

$5M per resident, then $97k a year in annual income.....

Your Irish and Italian ancestors benefited from White Privilege the minute they got here. They didn't kill the cow, but they got to enjoy the hamburger.

Yes, the SF proposal is pretty ridiculous, but the 10K is just lowballing it.

 

[JoeB131]

There are multiple arguments, imo only going for Jim Crowe and those still alive will fly in terms of compensation. But there are other ways to address the legacy of slavery.

At the rate this debate is going, everyone who lived under Jim Crowe will probably be dead by the time they decide on something.

 

[martybegan]

Your Irish and Italian ancestors benefited from White Privilege the minute they got here. They didn't kill the cow, but they got to enjoy the hamburger.

Yes, the SF proposal is pretty ridiculous, but the 10K is just lowballing it.

They were denigrated and shunted to the worst jobs around, and they overcame it.

You ever see the caricatures of Irish and Italians in the late 1800's early 1900's?

 

[JoeB131]

They were denigrated and shunted to the worst jobs around, and they overcame it.

You ever see the caricatures of Irish and Italians in the late 1800's early 1900's?

Yes, but this funny thing happened.

After they hit the second generation and lost their accents, they were welcomed into the White Privilege Class.

As opposed to blacks, who still can't go to the store without some thug cop shooting them.

 

[martybegan]

Yes, but this funny thing happened.

After they hit the second generation and lost their accents, they were welcomed into the White Privilege Class.

As opposed to blacks, who still can't go to the store without some thug cop shooting them.

No, they established themselves in the middle class without thinking someone owed them something due to it taking a few generations.

Actually they are far more at risk from some thug black criminal shooting them, but that ruins your precious narrative.

 

[JoeB131]

No, they established themselves in the middle class without thinking someone owed them something due to it taking a few generations.

Aw, that's adorable. You really believe that.

Actually they are far more at risk from some thug black criminal shooting them, but that ruins your precious narrative.

Well, it's not like we are going to do something sensible like pass common sense gun laws or try to fix our poverty problems, so crime is something we'll have to live with, I guess.

 

[martybegan]

Aw, that's adorable. You really believe that.


Well, it's not like we are going to do something sensible like pass common sense gun laws or try to fix our poverty problems, so crime is something we'll have to live with, I guess.

Easier to blame the guns instead of the people doing it and how society has basically subsidized the ruin of black culture since the 60's.

 

[Coyote]

They were denigrated and shunted to the worst jobs around, and they overcame it.

You ever see the caricatures of Irish and Italians in the late 1800's early 1900's?

I’m not arguing it. Many Japanese Americans also overcame internment as well, but they got reparations without any of these arguments leveled against them.

 

[martybegan]

I’m not arguing it. Many Japanese Americans also overcame internment as well, but they got reparations without any of these arguments leveled against them.

Unique situation because the violation was blatantly obvious and part of a war time panic. They were made to sell their homes and businesses for pennies on the dollar, which is something far more easily proven and tracked than "I didn't get "opportunity X, or my father didn't get opportunity Y"

What they should have done instead is given those people their property back, like that black family in LA that got their property back decades after it was taken from them. That's the level of payback I support. Proven assets taken from people, and returned to their descendants.

 

[JoeB131]

Easier to blame the guns instead of the people doing it and how society has basically subsidized the ruin of black culture since the 60's.

Yes, it was much nicer before the 1960s when they knew their place.