Brexit busted.

[frigidweirdo]

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

And that 700 billion loss is from what, if it is showing because we leave then it must also show if we stay. Or he is cooking the books and will be caught out.

It is based on hocus pocus like if the sun shines at midnight on the autumn equinox then the UK economy will take a nose dive

It's what" It's 700 billion loss on trade.

How is this hocus pocus? I've shown you the FACTS and you've just plainly ignored them. The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks already, this is fact. I notice you haven't even mentioned this.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

 

[Drummond]

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

Outside of the EU, the UK has several times as many countries to trade with, as it currently has within the EU. That we'll somehow fail to 'make our way in the real world' if we leave the EU is, and must surely be, an entirely bogus argument.

And this assumes that all trade will 'cease' with EU countries, in the event of our exit. Of course, this will not happen. Happily, not only will it not happen, but we will have whatever choices to trade as we make for ourselves ... and every country we DO trade with, will know that .. and, if they want our trade, will have to take that into account.

As for market fluctuations and falls, the stock market hates uncertainty. It reacts negatively to it. That's all you're really describing .. a stock market not liking a lack of full accountability of what trading is done, and where. Just that.

When all this settles down and the true picture emerges, I'm thoroughly confident that the market's 'mood' will fundamentally change.

 

[Drummond]

He should have said it weeks ago.

Problem is they've been trying to counter the Brexit people, rather than just state the case simply.

Problem is that they've gone to weird lengths to scare us all. Including saying that WWIII might break out, or a recent one, that 'Western political civilisation' will end !!!

Why scare us with such rot, UNLESS, the anti-Brexit case was truly a very weak one ??

Perhaps people are fed up with being treated like idiots, being bullied by scare tactics into thinking as the anti-Brexit mob want us to think. We've had enough of such shabbiness, such disreputability ... this no doubt also including the apparent latest Budget threat .. ??

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

Well, if you read it, you should see the point.

The point is basically that scaremongering happens on both sides, so to say that you hate this scaremongering when you probably support that of your own side, is quite simply not right.

Who, on the Brexit side, has claimed 'the end of Western political civilisation' if we remain within the EU ??

The 'Remain' side has basically gone berserk. Out of sheer panic, no doubt ... because, on their side, consolidation of centralised power is ALL that matters. They're no doubt unused to failure, preferring to keep people under their bureaucratic thumbs, instead.

... aww, diddums ...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

Outside of the EU, the UK has several times as many countries to trade with, as it currently has within the EU. That we'll somehow fail to 'make our way in the real world' if we leave the EU is, and must surely be, an entirely bogus argument.

And this assumes that all trade will 'cease' with EU countries, in the event of our exit. Of course, this will not happen. Happily, not only will it not happen, but we will have whatever choices to trade as we make for ourselves ... and every country we DO trade with, will know that .. and, if they want our trade, will have to take that into account.

As for market fluctuations and falls, the stock market hates uncertainty. It reacts negatively to it. That's all you're really describing .. a stock market not liking a lack of full accountability of what trading is done, and where. Just that.

When all this settles down and the true picture emerges, I'm thoroughly confident that the market's 'mood' will fundamentally change.

Yes, the UK does trade outside of the EU, and this makes up 50% of its trade right now. However there isn't an infinite supply of trade in the world. If the UK lost a lot of the EU trade, will it be able to make this up elsewhere? Doubtful.

I didn't say the UK would fail to make its way outside of the EU. I said it would lose a lot of money, firstly from the pound being devalued, second from a loss of trade, thirdly from companies choosing to stay in the EU and therefore leaving the UK. All in all the UK is going to be much poorer.

I didn't say all trade with the EU would cease, I've merely presented the scenario of the pound devaluing and the amount of money that would cost, plus a loss of trade of a few percentage points. No one knows how much the UK could lose, just that it will almost certainly lose some trade because of it.

Yes, markets rise and fall. That's not the point here. The point is that uncertainty leads to a drop in the pound. This uncertainty will last for a few years at the very least. If the UK is losing 500 billion a year for 2 years, that's going to have a MASSIVE impact on the UK economy. If more is lost, then what?

Trying to pass these off, as you're doing, as nothing, is rather ridiculous. These are the facts, you should know them, and you should be prepared for the economy to go downhill, higher unemployment, a weaker pound, and basically people being worse off.

People who go "we pay the EU loads of money, we'll save 11 billion a year" are living in some kind of fantasy world. No estimates out there show the UK saving money out of leaving, in fact, it's quite the opposite.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Problem is they've been trying to counter the Brexit people, rather than just state the case simply.

Problem is that they've gone to weird lengths to scare us all. Including saying that WWIII might break out, or a recent one, that 'Western political civilisation' will end !!!

Why scare us with such rot, UNLESS, the anti-Brexit case was truly a very weak one ??

Perhaps people are fed up with being treated like idiots, being bullied by scare tactics into thinking as the anti-Brexit mob want us to think. We've had enough of such shabbiness, such disreputability ... this no doubt also including the apparent latest Budget threat .. ??

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

Well, if you read it, you should see the point.

The point is basically that scaremongering happens on both sides, so to say that you hate this scaremongering when you probably support that of your own side, is quite simply not right.

Who, on the Brexit side, has claimed 'the end of Western political civilisation' if we remain within the EU ??

The 'Remain' side has basically gone berserk. Out of sheer panic, no doubt ... because, on their side, consolidation of centralised power is ALL that matters. They're no doubt unused to failure, preferring to keep people under their bureaucratic thumbs, instead.

... aww, diddums ...

No, the Brexit people haven't claimed the end of anything.

However what they have claimed, a lot of it is very positive, like "leave the EU and it'll all be roses", just like Helmut Kohl did in 1990, and he was wrong to say what he said in 1990.

If the UK leave, it's not going to be a positive experience.

The Brexit side have tried their hardest to keep away from any truths out there. The Express is a perfect example, as I've shown you various times.

 

[HenryBHough]

No question BREXIT would be temporarily very difficult for Britain.

But once Germany opts out - and it won't take long to follow - the whole picture changes.

Then there's the positive side:

Scotland will likely vote to break away and Hadrian's wall can be restored with appropriate toll booths and a proper kill zone.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No question BREXIT would be temporarily very difficult for Britain.

But once Germany opts out - and it won't take long to follow - the whole picture changes.

Then there's the positive side:

Scotland will likely vote to break away and Hadrian's wall can be restored with appropriate toll booths and a proper kill zone.

You think Germany will opt out? Not a chance. They EU will stay together and become more of an EU superpower than every before. You're dreaming if you think the Germans will leave.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Labour MP Jo Cox fights for life after being shot 'three times and repeatedly stabbed with foot-long knife' near Leeds by attacker who allegedly screamed 'Britain First'

 

[Phoenall]

He should have said it weeks ago.

Problem is they've been trying to counter the Brexit people, rather than just state the case simply.

Problem is that they've gone to weird lengths to scare us all. Including saying that WWIII might break out, or a recent one, that 'Western political civilisation' will end !!!

Why scare us with such rot, UNLESS, the anti-Brexit case was truly a very weak one ??

Perhaps people are fed up with being treated like idiots, being bullied by scare tactics into thinking as the anti-Brexit mob want us to think. We've had enough of such shabbiness, such disreputability ... this no doubt also including the apparent latest Budget threat .. ??

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

Well, if you read it, you should see the point.

The point is basically that scaremongering happens on both sides, so to say that you hate this scaremongering when you probably support that of your own side, is quite simply not right.

The point is this is just your opinion, and it is worth as much as an Irish 9 punt coin. I gave valid reasons backed with facts and all you have is the Chancellor threatening to increase taxes. When the word was earlier this year that the EU was looking at forcing taxes to rise anyway.

 

[Phoenall]

Polls say it's OUT.

Bookies say it's IN.

I say so long as Cameron is IN and Johnson is OUT Britain is screwed. Submissively, it is true, but well and truly screwed.

I'd say Johnson is probably worse than Cameron. He's a funny dude, he's likable, but is he going to think about things properly?

He plays a character for the camera's that makes him out to be a happy go lucky bumbling fool, put him in charge and watch him tell Brussels NO NO NO

Oh, and telling Brussels "NO NO NO" will do what exactly?

A lot more than giving in, as this is what Maggie did and won every time. She gave them a spoonful of sugar and they swallowed the nasty medicine

 

[Phoenall]

It was at the demands of the EU who said they would not give them the scraps on Europe's plate if they did not sign the treaties. So Labour signed as their commissars in Europe told them to, and one of the deals was to allow all the criminals and wasters into the UK. Now we cant use ATM's because of Eastern European con men skimming. They signed away our rights so that the EU human rights court could force our keeping murderers and rapists.

We will get the right to deport those scum that the ECHR have said we must give freedom to. We will get the right to have every lorry go past an x-ray scanner to check for stowaways. we will get the right to stop welfare fraud by migrants. And we will get the right to decide who can tender for British work by British companies and not be told we must employ unqualified Easter European workers. Finally we will remove the unfair practise of EU hauliers undercutting UK hauliers who have to pay to use the roads by placing a levee on the goods carried and also on the fuel used

And what is to stop future governments doing what the EU wants?

There's all this "we'll get the right to decide", but you've just shown that they had the right to decide and chose to decide the way the EU wanted.

Now you're claiming that not being in the EU it'll all be different.

How?

Why doesn't the UK either try and make a deal with the EU, or charge foreign trucks to use the roads? It's possible, you know.

Only the fact the people will vote them out and turn around any treaties made.


We tried and the answer was here are some crumbs, but we might decide to give them to Turkey instead.. The EU has blocked it as being unfair to the foreign hauliers, so we have to penalise our own hauliers. Yes it's possible when we leave the EU and watch it sink when it no longer has our money to waste.

Or is this what you are scared of, having to start working harder to make the grade in the EU and not rely on handouts and fraud

The problem is, with welfare, with road taxes, with all this sort of thing, the British governments have shown they're not that smart at dealing with it.

Will they start charging foreign hauliers if the UK leaves the EU? There's no indication this would happen. Seeing as it could happen with a variety of creative ways of charging foreign hauliers at Dover, but they didn't do it.

They tried and the EU blocked it saying it was against the rules of free trade. Yet they allow European nations to drain fuel tanks and force hauliers to fill up at the fuel pumps across the road. All because the fuel in the tanks is cheaper that theirs, and they were losing tax revenues on fuel. Look at EU hauliers and many of their vehicles have belly tanks under the fifth wheel that they can switch in from the cab. Many fell foul of weight rules when we loaded their vehicle with the maximum weights allowed, or when they pre weighed and found the load was too heavy under EU laws. A tractor trailer combo should weigh 11 to 12 tonnes giving a carrying capacity of 20 to 21 tonnes. We booked for a combo weight of 10.5 tonnes to carry the heavy steel plates to Germany and had 14 tonne combo's from Poland turn up. The 21.5 tonne loads carried a 15% surcharge paid on delivery so the drivers could make more money. If they were caught overweight we could be fined for loading them under UK laws, so we did what we must.

Every step of the way the EU screwed the UK to make it harder for us to operate at a profit, they stopped the canteens being subsidised because it made our goods cheaper but still allowed the European firms to offer cut price food in theirs. They brought in the working time directive and then allowed European workers to exceed the hours because of custom and practise. The British had old favourites banned because the yield was higher, and it was stalwarts who kept seeds for their own use that have allowed them to make a comeback. BETTER OUT THAN IN

When people tell me they "tried", I often wonder how hard they tried. Trying doesn't mean much if what you're doing isn't very good.

The UK gets screwed over by the EU, but all the other countries don't, it happens with immigration, it happens with welfare, it happens with road fees.... tell me, do you see a pattern here?

Do you not think the problem might just not be the British government?

Do you as we only got in originally because the EU was running short of money for its plans. When the media reports that our representatives in Europe are denied everything they ask for I don't see the problem being with the UK government. And only a complete moron would even think so.

 

[Phoenall]

No question BREXIT would be temporarily very difficult for Britain.

But once Germany opts out - and it won't take long to follow - the whole picture changes.

Then there's the positive side:

Scotland will likely vote to break away and Hadrian's wall can be restored with appropriate toll booths and a proper kill zone.

You think Germany will opt out? Not a chance. They EU will stay together and become more of an EU superpower than every before. You're dreaming if you think the Germans will leave.

Do you honestly think so when the money starts to dry up and the other member states want their handouts. France and Germany have their reason/excuse to leave now in the UK's impending exit

 

[Phoenall]

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

And that 700 billion loss is from what, if it is showing because we leave then it must also show if we stay. Or he is cooking the books and will be caught out.

It is based on hocus pocus like if the sun shines at midnight on the autumn equinox then the UK economy will take a nose dive

It's what" It's 700 billion loss on trade.

How is this hocus pocus? I've shown you the FACTS and you've just plainly ignored them. The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks already, this is fact. I notice you haven't even mentioned this.

Because there are no facts just conjecture, what trade is to be affected causing a loss of 700billion a week. Name one commodity that will cease to be sold to Europe and cost the UK money.


As I said hocus pocus and smoke with no actual evidence to support the claim. Services have clauses in the contracts that make the service provided the intellectual property of the provider, so they will not hand that over for free, and will charge say 5 years of the contract price to release it. Trade agreements will be for a certain term and again will have clauses protecting both parties. So really it will mean an initial increase in funds, followed by a small period of uncertainty and finally new outlets found and new markets

 

[Phoenall]

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

WRONG as that would have happened anyway due to seasonal influences. How will the UK lose when we are not in the Euro, and the £ is going up. If you mean on spending power the more the Euro goes down the more we get for our £.
As I keep telling you those countries will still be trading as they need the goods and the EU cant provide them. So what will we lose again when the EU is struggling with mountains of waste because they have no buyers

 

[Phoenall]

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

Outside of the EU, the UK has several times as many countries to trade with, as it currently has within the EU. That we'll somehow fail to 'make our way in the real world' if we leave the EU is, and must surely be, an entirely bogus argument.

And this assumes that all trade will 'cease' with EU countries, in the event of our exit. Of course, this will not happen. Happily, not only will it not happen, but we will have whatever choices to trade as we make for ourselves ... and every country we DO trade with, will know that .. and, if they want our trade, will have to take that into account.

As for market fluctuations and falls, the stock market hates uncertainty. It reacts negatively to it. That's all you're really describing .. a stock market not liking a lack of full accountability of what trading is done, and where. Just that.

When all this settles down and the true picture emerges, I'm thoroughly confident that the market's 'mood' will fundamentally change.

Yes, the UK does trade outside of the EU, and this makes up 50% of its trade right now. However there isn't an infinite supply of trade in the world. If the UK lost a lot of the EU trade, will it be able to make this up elsewhere? Doubtful.

I didn't say the UK would fail to make its way outside of the EU. I said it would lose a lot of money, firstly from the pound being devalued, second from a loss of trade, thirdly from companies choosing to stay in the EU and therefore leaving the UK. All in all the UK is going to be much poorer.

I didn't say all trade with the EU would cease, I've merely presented the scenario of the pound devaluing and the amount of money that would cost, plus a loss of trade of a few percentage points. No one knows how much the UK could lose, just that it will almost certainly lose some trade because of it.

Yes, markets rise and fall. That's not the point here. The point is that uncertainty leads to a drop in the pound. This uncertainty will last for a few years at the very least. If the UK is losing 500 billion a year for 2 years, that's going to have a MASSIVE impact on the UK economy. If more is lost, then what?

Trying to pass these off, as you're doing, as nothing, is rather ridiculous. These are the facts, you should know them, and you should be prepared for the economy to go downhill, higher unemployment, a weaker pound, and basically people being worse off.

People who go "we pay the EU loads of money, we'll save 11 billion a year" are living in some kind of fantasy world. No estimates out there show the UK saving money out of leaving, in fact, it's quite the opposite.

The £ has already rallied and the stock market is buoyant on the thought of it being a leave vote. proving you and the remain camp incompetents and unable to see what is really happening

 

[Toro]

Big Money is betting on the UK staying.

 

[L.K.Eder]

jo cox has died.

Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack - BBC News

 

[anotherlife]

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

This is true and unfortunate. Cameron should have been smarter. The brexit is an excellent study in how people on average play into the hands of manipulators and goons. Cameroon didn't even ask between his scare mongering, whether uk small business has found the new markets to sell for now that they are giving up Europe.

That's just it they aren't giving up Europe just trading on their terms and not the EU's. If the EU forces the trading partners to impose price controls and gives them a larger profit then who are we to stop them. The other companies will soon be making overtures to the UK markets and lifting our trade even further.

This is all at the expense of the English voter, not benefit. Corporate profits are separate things from average voter interest. The English voters want to vote against their interest and in favor of corporate interest. The English have now been infected with the American lie that every individual is a successful corporation. Goons.

 

[anotherlife]

Problem is that they've gone to weird lengths to scare us all. Including saying that WWIII might break out, or a recent one, that 'Western political civilisation' will end !!!

Why scare us with such rot, UNLESS, the anti-Brexit case was truly a very weak one ??

Perhaps people are fed up with being treated like idiots, being bullied by scare tactics into thinking as the anti-Brexit mob want us to think. We've had enough of such shabbiness, such disreputability ... this no doubt also including the apparent latest Budget threat .. ??

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

Well, if you read it, you should see the point.

The point is basically that scaremongering happens on both sides, so to say that you hate this scaremongering when you probably support that of your own side, is quite simply not right.

Who, on the Brexit side, has claimed 'the end of Western political civilisation' if we remain within the EU ??

The 'Remain' side has basically gone berserk. Out of sheer panic, no doubt ... because, on their side, consolidation of centralised power is ALL that matters. They're no doubt unused to failure, preferring to keep people under their bureaucratic thumbs, instead.

... aww, diddums ...

No, the Brexit people haven't claimed the end of anything.

However what they have claimed, a lot of it is very positive, like "leave the EU and it'll all be roses", just like Helmut Kohl did in 1990, and he was wrong to say what he said in 1990.

If the UK leave, it's not going to be a positive experience.

The Brexit side have tried their hardest to keep away from any truths out there. The Express is a perfect example, as I've shown you various times.

This is true but the English have now been Americanized enough to not care about reality but only about their feel good factor.