Brexit busted.

[frigidweirdo]

Costing trillions, of which they're paying money. Change the low paid work force and exchange them for old grannies who won't work, and then see plumbers earning a fortune because the UK doesn't have enough, unless of course you want to solve your plumbing problems by sticking a grannie in the cracks.

How are they paying when they are too old to work, have no skills and don't want to work. Those that do work claim all the welfare they can and send it straight back home. Then there is the education needed to allow them to talk English, and not need translators to answer questions. The cost of treating their medical problems alone has put the NHS on the brink of bankruptcy. I could have made a fortune 10 times over putting right the shoddy and dangerous work done by migrants claiming to be plumbers, same with friends who were joiners, electricians and bricklayers. People go to a migrant plumber and pay them half what the job would cost, and then have to pay twice as much when it is seen to be dangerous. Simple answer is to make the workshy get out and do those jobs or stop their money. After 14 years of Labour pandering to the lazy and feckless we needed something done to sort the problem, and importing more unemployables is not the way.

There's a problem with the welfare system. I've said this a lot recently. People think that leaving the EU will make the UK welfare system better. How? It's the UK govt that makes the welfare system.

It's funny, people keep pointing out reasons why the UK needs to leave the EU, and mostly they point to the incompetence of the UK govt for the reasons for leaving.

I don't get it.

No it is the EU red tape and rules that make it worse, and they should keep out of out revenue raising if they want their £400 billion or so every year.

The incompetence was due to Labour bending over backwards to get the crumbs left on the plate, instead of demanding the whole pie

What you don't get, and never will, is that the EU has tied this country up in red tape so much that we cant even spit without being fined. All you want is to keep the money from the UK flowing into Brussels and your cushy number getting you richer.

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

Yes because the deals will be on our terms, or they don't get the goods they need.

Incompetance due to unelected officials in Brussels making rules for their cronies and screwing the English for being better than the rest and turning round their economy

Yes as we will make our own laws and rules, and leave the dregs for the Europeans to fight over.

YES as it will no longer be tied to the EU

Will they?

Usually what happens when you have a bloc that is 10 times bigger (think the US and Canada), that the larger bloc tends to get things on their terms. The UK is going to be more desperate to get a deal done than the EU.

Do you know how much money the UK will lose from leaving the EU?

 

[skye]

UK Is Out Globalist control!

They voted OUT!


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


my prediction hehe!!!!!

 

[frigidweirdo]

Decades already? Now, it's been 6 years. You do remember that the Tories haven't been in for decades, don't you? That people elected Labour to save it in 1997?
And education. I know some teachers in the UK, and I know they're far more demoralized now than they were under Labour.

My true agenda? You want my true agenda?

I like using my brain, that's my true agenda.

But then again it doesn't matter. This isn't life or death, you aren't going to change your vote talking to me not matter how right I am. So.... my agenda can't be that much if you're like the only British person I even debate about the EU with. I do know someone who's on the stay campaign though, I don't talk to him and haven't for a long while, but there you go.

You go looking for ghouls and demons and ignore answering the questions and looking at the points.

Six years, currently. Have there been no Conservative Governments before 2010 ?

Margaret Thatcher was accused of wanting to dismantle the NHS, and that was decades ago.

As for education ... I lament the demise of grammar schools. It's a way of saying goodbye to excellence.

... as to your agenda ... you ARE Left wing, you've established that. You remain secretive about your nationality. I am entitled to draw conclusions from that ... and, I do.

Yes, with a massive gap where Labour massively increased funding for education and health, and repaired the health service in 13 years, only to see it go downhill again.

As for my agenda, blah, blah, blah, shut the fuck up this got old already.

When did this happen then as we saw nothing but ward closures, doctor shortages and cronyism in the NHS during Labours 14 years in charge. As for education the levels were so poor in the 1990's that exams were tuned down to keep the pass rates up, and the migrants were given the cream of the schools only to destroy them.

Typical leftist when being shown up as incompetent, resort to personal attacks and anti social behaviour.

Satisfaction with the NHS overall

Please, go to this link.

Satisfaction with the NHS.

In 1997 it was at 34% for satisfaction. The lowest it's been since this chart starts.
In 2 years it rose to 46%, then dropped, probably due to MRSA which was as a result of Tory slashing.
This then went down to 38% but then rose every year until 2010, at which point it dropped massively.

I'm not saying Labour was perfect in any way. However they took the ashes of the NHS and they've turned it into a decent healthcare system.

And your argument about the 1990s, well... you do remember the Tories were in for most of the 1990s.

2010 was the FIRST YEAR under Labour where they had enough teachers. Before that they'd been offering trainee teachers 1,000 a month (for certain subjects) to train to become teachers. The 2010/2011 year they reduced this money massively because they had enough.

School workforce in England: November 2014 - Publications - GOV.UK

Click on main tables

Table 1 (excel spreadsheet)

In nursery and primary

In 2010 there were 200,900 totally regular FTE teachers. In 2014 this has gone down to 182,000. Even in 2000 there were more teachers than there were in 2014.

Full time regular teachers, gone down below the 2000 level.

Part time teachers has increased from 2000 but dropped against 2010.

Unqualified teachers has increased against 2000 and 2010 from 1,500 to 3,900 to 4,500

Head teachers have dropped from 10,500 to 8,200 to 7,300


In Maintained Secondary

total teachers has dropped from 198,500 in 2000, 213,900 in 2010 to 82,400 in 2010. Yes, there has been a rise in academies which changes all of this.

However academies are employing a lot more part time teachers, and massive amounts of unqualified teachers

In 2000 there were 2,100 unqualified teachers. In 2010 there were 9,000, in 2014 there were 3,600 in maintained schools and 8,000 in academies.

All in all teachers are leaving the profession, or turning to part time because they're not happy working full time.

All those years it was under Labours control, and not the tories.

No it was Labour in from the mid 1990's and they were so poor at running the country they lost our utility companies.

You need to check your sources again as the dates don't tally.

Labour were from the middle of 1997, that's 2 1/2 years of the 1990s. Labour were increasing health spending, increasing education spending. Are you not British?

Education spending, see how it goes up massively from 1998 onwards? And then drops from 2010 onwards?

See how healthcare spending goes up massively. Still going up, but this says MORE about the education statistics than the health statistics. Those increases of the Tories are in line with inflation, and the real increase is negative slightly, not positive, so the education spending's drop is actually much worse than it appears.

Now you're talking about utilities companies.... where did that come from?

If you check your dates, you'll see I'm right.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ah, and we come back to this attack again.

I'll attack the Tory government because I happen to think the NHS is quite a good system. I mean, it costs half what the US system costs, isn't half as bad in any respects, and treats all people, and under Labour it was what people dreamed it could be, and under the Tories it's what it shouldn't be.

I don't like Trump. (I don't like Hillary either). The Republicans are destroying the US.
I happen to think Merkel in Germany is a rather effective leader, even if she's on the right, but right often means different things in different countries.
In Austria I happen to find the FPOe rather repulsive, and the BZOe that existed before in Karten.
In South Africa I happen to find the ANC rather repulsive these days and wish they'd stop being so corrupt.
In China I might be against the authoritarian leadership, but believe that at present it is the best thing for the Chinese people.
In Russia I understand why Putin does so well, I don't particularly like him because he's a Nationalist of the worst kind, but then the Russians don't seem to be able to cope well with other leaders.

I have opinions about many countries. You don't need to know where I'm from, just that I'm rather informed about many different political systems around the world, yet know almost nothing about East Timor's government.

But again, this is about the arguments. I have my slant on things, just like everyone else's. You seem to want to try attacking people to make them shut up, which is rather worrying, but then I tie that in with your support for Brexit and I've formed an opinion of you, which I don't need to state because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I'll leave my personal thoughts on you far away from the debate.

I'm trying to find out what's truly behind your anti-Brexit argumentation. To see what agenda is in play, and whose interests are truly being served by it. Which is entirely reasonable of me, considering your determination to argue a path for the UK that will one day see it stripped of sovereignty and autonomy !!

As yet, you've gone so far as to hint at a Left-wing set of biases,one anti-Nationalistic ... so tell me. Is your agenda one of a Globalist, 'One World', Socialist-led world ? Do you perhaps see the expanding and nationality-crushing EU as a stepping-stone to such an ambition ?

If I'm wrong, you can choose to offer information proving me wrong. But will you do so ?

Why are you trying to find this out? So you can attack me?

Why not stick to the arguments? It can't be that hard, even if the arguments are as weak as American piss beer.

The effort made in knowing your nationality, must necessarily translate as a basis for an attack against you ? REALLY ?

That only surely makes sense if your nation is actually a hostile one !! And .. if hostile, that lends itself to the observation that your agenda in pushing the anti-Brexit line may well, indeed, be an intentional effort to work against the UK's interests.

I can easily stick to arguments, as I've also proved. HOWEVER ... the certain knowledge of your representing a hostile nation, if or when this ever becomes definite, established fact, is highly pertinent to why you advance your own.

And how are my arguments weak ?? What's wrong with wanting national autonomy, freedom from being dominated by foreign powers ? What's wrong with wanting to greatly enhance the opportunity of exercising proper border controls ? What's wrong with resisting scaremongering, ITSELF borne of weakness ... the weakness because, as it obviously exists, has anti-Brexit proponents disreputably predicting WWIII and the end of Western political civilisation, obviously out of sheer desperation ???

Again, you say you can stick to topic, but half your posts to me are off topic.

What's wrong with national autonomy? Nothing. However you have to understand what national autonomy means and put it in its correct context. As I've shown, the Westminster government for many is the same as the Brussels government for you. Being dominated by foreign powers isn't going to go away by leaving the EU. In fact in the EU the UK has a say, outside of the EU, the UK doesn't have a say in this domination.

What's wrong with wanting proper border controls? Nothing, however the UK isn't in the Schengen Agreement. As I've already stated, the number of non-EU citizens coming in is large, this isn't to do with the EU government. You want proper border controls, but leaving the EU doesn't solve the problems that exist in the UK, namely that many people are lining up to get on boats to get into the UK due to the UK's welfare system not working properly, this won't change. Half of those EU citizens who come in are from EU-15 countries, countries many Brits live in. So what will change?

What's wrong with resisting scaremongering? What, apart from the fact that the brexit people are lying out of their asses, offering hope however they feel like? Oh, you'll save this much money. No you won't. Ah, sure you will, I made up the statistics myself.

The biggest problem I have with your arguments is that you haven't shown that things will be better after. You THINK things will be better, you want them to be better, but I just don't see it.

The UK welfare system is broken, the border controls are broken, and these COULD HAVE been fixed at any point in the last 20 or 30 years by the UK government and they haven't been. But all of a sudden leaving the EU will suddenly fix the problems of the UK government, like as if they'll be given a magic wand or something.

They won't.

I give you one reason to leave the EU as soon as possible TURKEY Who have threatened if they don't get their own way they will flood Europe with refugees. If they get in we can expect millions of muslims with Turkish passports coming to Europe and taking over. Some of us have seen the writing on the wall and don't want to be in the club when either of these happen. Under EU human rights laws we are not allowed to stop and detain an illegal immigrant before sending them back to were they came from. Once out we will be chartering every boat to sail to Europe with all the criminal elements in chains. Getting rid of the EU migrants will rid us of 10 million spongers and fraudsters, so the 3 million ex pats would be a drop in the ocean and much cheaper to accommodate.


It is the remain camp that is scaremongering without offering any evidence to support their claims. All they have is to claim the Leave camp is " are lying out of their asses ". We will see more money as ridding the country of 10 million spongers and fraudsters has to be cheaper that 3 million ex pats.

Yes they could have been fixed if the UK had been kept in the loop, but when the EU leaders made corridor deals and back room agreements to freeze out the UK we had no chance to "fix" the welfare system. Then we had the incompetent neo Marxist Labour party that gave away all our hard earned gains to look good on the EU stage, only to be laughed at because they did too much infighting.
So yes leaving will give us back the power to rule our nation, to close the doors to any more immigrants, stop the asylum seekers coming across the channel and refuse to pay migrants welfare they are not entitled to.



As the latest report shows the Stock markets are rising on the back of an impending Brexit, and the leave camp is losing all hope. Expect a new P.M to be sworn in by July

Your argument doesn't make much sense. Turkey wanted to have a visa free program with the EU, not with the UK.

They threatened to move on migrants, but then while the west is complaining about migrants, Turkey is bearing the brunt of migrants in its country, and is poorer too. So a threat by them is probably one where they're a little concerned that their country has been overflowing with migrants for longer and at a higher quantity than the EU.

 

[skye]

Celebrate .....you all!


UK is OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


of totalitarian EU

 

[frigidweirdo]

View attachment 78165

You pay 8.5 billion a year to a club which gives you back most of this money anyway, and you risk losing 100 billion a year from loss of trade, from a falling pound etc (note, this isn't an actual figure, I did do a post on how much the UK would lose if the pound dropped 5% against the Euro but I've forgotten the figures, but it was more than 8/5 billion).

Get it right we pay a lot more than that and get a pittance back. Then the EU fines the UK 4 times as much to balance the books.
Strange that as Germany and France do the same things and don't get fined ? ? ? ? ?

You're not thinking about this properly.

Okay, let's deal just with facts.

Britain’s contribution to EU has risen by £2.7bn, quadrupling in five years

From 2014

"The net figures – which take into account the UK’s rebate – show the UK’s contribution to the EU was £2.7bn in 2008, rising to £3.8bn in 2009, £7.2bn in 2010, £7.5bn in 2011, £8.5bn in 2012 and £11.3bn in 2013."

Okay, we have a figure from the Guardian of £11.3 billion net.

We can work with that. There might be other figures, but they'd probably be similar, unless you have something else.

http://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default...nts/pdf/2014/pb_britishtrade_16jan14-8285.pdf

This site says we have 5500 billion euros worth of trade with the EU, both import and export.

That's 4,366 billion pounds.

In the last two weeks the UK pound has lost 7 cents to the pound against the Euro as polls said the UK would vote leave.

The pound is 0.793986 against the Euro right now.
It was 0.7756855971 on June 1st.

That means the UK's trade per year is 4266 billion pounds a year. That means the UK has lost 100 billion pounds in 2 weeks (well not really as this trade takes place over the course of the year), or in other words, to be more accurate, if this trend continued, the UK would be losing 100 billion pounds a year. Okay, the UK just saved 11 billion and lost 100 billion, my poor math skills make that a loss of 89 billion pounds.

Now, this is just from polls saying that the UK would exit. Imagine if the UK exited and instead of 0.77 it went down to 0.7

That's the pound's trade being worth 3,857 billion. That's a loss of 516 billion pounds.

I'm not saying this will happen. I'm saying this is a possibility.

Not only is this a possibility, but there's a possibility of loss of trade.

If the UK loses 1% of trade, that 550 billion Euros, or 436 billion pounds, just for a 1% drop in trade. Losing deals with the EU, having to renegotiate, having to do all of that, could potentially lose the UK massive amounts of trade over a 2 or 3 year period as companies look elsewhere.

You put the 436 billion loss, plus the 516 billion loss together (okay, putting them together and you'd lose some of this figure, because if you lose this trade then you're not going to get as much anyway so the second figure would go down), but that's a 1,000 billion loss for the UK, just so they can save 11 billion a year.

Do you think that this risk is worth it? Because it's a risk. I've presented figured, figures that may or may not happen. Certainly the UK will lose, the loss of 100 billion a year based on figures over the last 2 weeks is REAL, that's already happened and we can predict with a lot of certainty that this will go down a lot more.

Basically in the last two weeks the UK has lost 0.95 billion pounds as a result of polls predicting the exit of the UK from the EU.

And you're complaining about losing 11 billion pounds. Sorry, you only need 12 two week periods (three months) in order to lose that based only on what has happened already.

Anything you don't agree with?

 

[frigidweirdo]

There's a problem with the welfare system. I've said this a lot recently. People think that leaving the EU will make the UK welfare system better. How? It's the UK govt that makes the welfare system.

It's funny, people keep pointing out reasons why the UK needs to leave the EU, and mostly they point to the incompetence of the UK govt for the reasons for leaving.

I don't get it.

No it is the EU red tape and rules that make it worse, and they should keep out of out revenue raising if they want their £400 billion or so every year.

The incompetence was due to Labour bending over backwards to get the crumbs left on the plate, instead of demanding the whole pie

What you don't get, and never will, is that the EU has tied this country up in red tape so much that we cant even spit without being fined. All you want is to keep the money from the UK flowing into Brussels and your cushy number getting you richer.

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

See scaremongering by the leave camp, as he will have a lot more money to play with after a year of sorting out the wrinkles.


I am sat here watching my private pension rise as the stock market rises, something to do with Brexit being a formality now the leave camp have taken the lead

See my previous post and the loss of 100 billion pounds a year in the last two weeks alone.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There's a problem with the welfare system. I've said this a lot recently. People think that leaving the EU will make the UK welfare system better. How? It's the UK govt that makes the welfare system.

It's funny, people keep pointing out reasons why the UK needs to leave the EU, and mostly they point to the incompetence of the UK govt for the reasons for leaving.

I don't get it.

No it is the EU red tape and rules that make it worse, and they should keep out of out revenue raising if they want their £400 billion or so every year.

The incompetence was due to Labour bending over backwards to get the crumbs left on the plate, instead of demanding the whole pie

What you don't get, and never will, is that the EU has tied this country up in red tape so much that we cant even spit without being fined. All you want is to keep the money from the UK flowing into Brussels and your cushy number getting you richer.

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No it is the EU red tape and rules that make it worse, and they should keep out of out revenue raising if they want their £400 billion or so every year.

The incompetence was due to Labour bending over backwards to get the crumbs left on the plate, instead of demanding the whole pie

What you don't get, and never will, is that the EU has tied this country up in red tape so much that we cant even spit without being fined. All you want is to keep the money from the UK flowing into Brussels and your cushy number getting you richer.

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

 

[Phoenall]

There's a problem with the welfare system. I've said this a lot recently. People think that leaving the EU will make the UK welfare system better. How? It's the UK govt that makes the welfare system.

It's funny, people keep pointing out reasons why the UK needs to leave the EU, and mostly they point to the incompetence of the UK govt for the reasons for leaving.

I don't get it.

No it is the EU red tape and rules that make it worse, and they should keep out of out revenue raising if they want their £400 billion or so every year.

The incompetence was due to Labour bending over backwards to get the crumbs left on the plate, instead of demanding the whole pie

What you don't get, and never will, is that the EU has tied this country up in red tape so much that we cant even spit without being fined. All you want is to keep the money from the UK flowing into Brussels and your cushy number getting you richer.

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

I would rather have the old UK standards than the new EU ones that limit the power usage to nothing so they take twice as long to do half the job. And it is bendy cucumbers with taste we will have back, and Cox's apples as opposed to golden delicious. My Sardinian neighbour loves my cox's and asks for them every year because they are so much more tasty than the ones he grew up with.

So you live in Italy ? Priceless.

No my neighbour originates from Sardinia, and he loves the British food that has taste, by the way he is a chef and works offshore so should know what he is talking about in regards to food.

 

[Phoenall]

This is how our brave new world will look like.

In your fantasy world, in reality it will look pretty much the same only with less migrants

 

[Phoenall]

No it is the EU red tape and rules that make it worse, and they should keep out of out revenue raising if they want their £400 billion or so every year.

The incompetence was due to Labour bending over backwards to get the crumbs left on the plate, instead of demanding the whole pie

What you don't get, and never will, is that the EU has tied this country up in red tape so much that we cant even spit without being fined. All you want is to keep the money from the UK flowing into Brussels and your cushy number getting you richer.

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

This is true and unfortunate. Cameron should have been smarter. The brexit is an excellent study in how people on average play into the hands of manipulators and goons. Cameroon didn't even ask between his scare mongering, whether uk small business has found the new markets to sell for now that they are giving up Europe.

That's just it they aren't giving up Europe just trading on their terms and not the EU's. If the EU forces the trading partners to impose price controls and gives them a larger profit then who are we to stop them. The other companies will soon be making overtures to the UK markets and lifting our trade even further.

 

[Phoenall]

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

He should have said it weeks ago.

Problem is they've been trying to counter the Brexit people, rather than just state the case simply.

Problem is that they've gone to weird lengths to scare us all. Including saying that WWIII might break out, or a recent one, that 'Western political civilisation' will end !!!

Why scare us with such rot, UNLESS, the anti-Brexit case was truly a very weak one ??

Perhaps people are fed up with being treated like idiots, being bullied by scare tactics into thinking as the anti-Brexit mob want us to think. We've had enough of such shabbiness, such disreputability ... this no doubt also including the apparent latest Budget threat .. ??

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

 

[Phoenall]

Polls say it's OUT.

Bookies say it's IN.

I say so long as Cameron is IN and Johnson is OUT Britain is screwed. Submissively, it is true, but well and truly screwed.

I'd say Johnson is probably worse than Cameron. He's a funny dude, he's likable, but is he going to think about things properly?

He plays a character for the camera's that makes him out to be a happy go lucky bumbling fool, put him in charge and watch him tell Brussels NO NO NO

 

[Phoenall]

Under Labour the working man in the UK could not get any treatment as migrants came first, and that is why we saw queues waiting to be seen while migrants from all over the world were ushered into private rooms and given the best of everything. An ambulance used to ferry a whole family to A&E so that little Abdul could be treated for a splinter in his finger. Now they get told to visit their G.P or take it out themselves.

Strange how you swing your Pom Pom's for Labour yet loathe the ANC when they are the same party, both neo marxists

Er... I don't believe that, in fact I know it not to be true.

Yes, Labour caused problems with mass immigration, I won't deny they were wrong.

However this was the British government doing this. Not the EU government. WHich begs the question of what people think they're going to get different outside of the EU from immigration.

It was at the demands of the EU who said they would not give them the scraps on Europe's plate if they did not sign the treaties. So Labour signed as their commissars in Europe told them to, and one of the deals was to allow all the criminals and wasters into the UK. Now we cant use ATM's because of Eastern European con men skimming. They signed away our rights so that the EU human rights court could force our keeping murderers and rapists.

We will get the right to deport those scum that the ECHR have said we must give freedom to. We will get the right to have every lorry go past an x-ray scanner to check for stowaways. we will get the right to stop welfare fraud by migrants. And we will get the right to decide who can tender for British work by British companies and not be told we must employ unqualified Easter European workers. Finally we will remove the unfair practise of EU hauliers undercutting UK hauliers who have to pay to use the roads by placing a levee on the goods carried and also on the fuel used

And what is to stop future governments doing what the EU wants?

There's all this "we'll get the right to decide", but you've just shown that they had the right to decide and chose to decide the way the EU wanted.

Now you're claiming that not being in the EU it'll all be different.

How?

Why doesn't the UK either try and make a deal with the EU, or charge foreign trucks to use the roads? It's possible, you know.

Only the fact the people will vote them out and turn around any treaties made.


We tried and the answer was here are some crumbs, but we might decide to give them to Turkey instead.. The EU has blocked it as being unfair to the foreign hauliers, so we have to penalise our own hauliers. Yes it's possible when we leave the EU and watch it sink when it no longer has our money to waste.

Or is this what you are scared of, having to start working harder to make the grade in the EU and not rely on handouts and fraud

The problem is, with welfare, with road taxes, with all this sort of thing, the British governments have shown they're not that smart at dealing with it.

Will they start charging foreign hauliers if the UK leaves the EU? There's no indication this would happen. Seeing as it could happen with a variety of creative ways of charging foreign hauliers at Dover, but they didn't do it.

They tried and the EU blocked it saying it was against the rules of free trade. Yet they allow European nations to drain fuel tanks and force hauliers to fill up at the fuel pumps across the road. All because the fuel in the tanks is cheaper that theirs, and they were losing tax revenues on fuel. Look at EU hauliers and many of their vehicles have belly tanks under the fifth wheel that they can switch in from the cab. Many fell foul of weight rules when we loaded their vehicle with the maximum weights allowed, or when they pre weighed and found the load was too heavy under EU laws. A tractor trailer combo should weigh 11 to 12 tonnes giving a carrying capacity of 20 to 21 tonnes. We booked for a combo weight of 10.5 tonnes to carry the heavy steel plates to Germany and had 14 tonne combo's from Poland turn up. The 21.5 tonne loads carried a 15% surcharge paid on delivery so the drivers could make more money. If they were caught overweight we could be fined for loading them under UK laws, so we did what we must.

Every step of the way the EU screwed the UK to make it harder for us to operate at a profit, they stopped the canteens being subsidised because it made our goods cheaper but still allowed the European firms to offer cut price food in theirs. They brought in the working time directive and then allowed European workers to exceed the hours because of custom and practise. The British had old favourites banned because the yield was higher, and it was stalwarts who kept seeds for their own use that have allowed them to make a comeback. BETTER OUT THAN IN

 

[Phoenall]

No it is the EU red tape and rules that make it worse, and they should keep out of out revenue raising if they want their £400 billion or so every year.

The incompetence was due to Labour bending over backwards to get the crumbs left on the plate, instead of demanding the whole pie

What you don't get, and never will, is that the EU has tied this country up in red tape so much that we cant even spit without being fined. All you want is to keep the money from the UK flowing into Brussels and your cushy number getting you richer.

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

And that 700 billion loss is from what, if it is showing because we leave then it must also show if we stay. Or he is cooking the books and will be caught out.

It is based on hocus pocus like if the sun shines at midnight on the autumn equinox then the UK economy will take a nose dive

 

[Phoenall]

And will this red tape disappear? No, it won't. Many companies will still deal with the EU and the red tape to get into the EU will get worse, as they'll have to deal with what's there now AND with more. Alan Sugar stated that he wants to stay because it's a nightmare trying to deal with this sort of thing.

Okay, incompetence due to Labour, and you want incompetence running the whole show rather than incompetence and incompetence running the show? Does it make a difference all this being out of the EU stuff?

Question. Will the UK government get rid of this red tape if we leave or not? And if yes, prove it.

It is blindingly obvious that if the EU wants kettles and toasters to be a certain standard then ours will have to be that standard. Otherwise we wont sell any.
On another point.
I have really enjoyed watching my SIPP being slashed in value over the past week. Gives me a warm feeling that we can have bendy bananas though.

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

He should have said it weeks ago.

Problem is they've been trying to counter the Brexit people, rather than just state the case simply.

Problem is that they've gone to weird lengths to scare us all. Including saying that WWIII might break out, or a recent one, that 'Western political civilisation' will end !!!

Why scare us with such rot, UNLESS, the anti-Brexit case was truly a very weak one ??

Perhaps people are fed up with being treated like idiots, being bullied by scare tactics into thinking as the anti-Brexit mob want us to think. We've had enough of such shabbiness, such disreputability ... this no doubt also including the apparent latest Budget threat .. ??

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

Well, if you read it, you should see the point.

The point is basically that scaremongering happens on both sides, so to say that you hate this scaremongering when you probably support that of your own side, is quite simply not right.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Polls say it's OUT.

Bookies say it's IN.

I say so long as Cameron is IN and Johnson is OUT Britain is screwed. Submissively, it is true, but well and truly screwed.

I'd say Johnson is probably worse than Cameron. He's a funny dude, he's likable, but is he going to think about things properly?

He plays a character for the camera's that makes him out to be a happy go lucky bumbling fool, put him in charge and watch him tell Brussels NO NO NO

Oh, and telling Brussels "NO NO NO" will do what exactly?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Er... I don't believe that, in fact I know it not to be true.

Yes, Labour caused problems with mass immigration, I won't deny they were wrong.

However this was the British government doing this. Not the EU government. WHich begs the question of what people think they're going to get different outside of the EU from immigration.

It was at the demands of the EU who said they would not give them the scraps on Europe's plate if they did not sign the treaties. So Labour signed as their commissars in Europe told them to, and one of the deals was to allow all the criminals and wasters into the UK. Now we cant use ATM's because of Eastern European con men skimming. They signed away our rights so that the EU human rights court could force our keeping murderers and rapists.

We will get the right to deport those scum that the ECHR have said we must give freedom to. We will get the right to have every lorry go past an x-ray scanner to check for stowaways. we will get the right to stop welfare fraud by migrants. And we will get the right to decide who can tender for British work by British companies and not be told we must employ unqualified Easter European workers. Finally we will remove the unfair practise of EU hauliers undercutting UK hauliers who have to pay to use the roads by placing a levee on the goods carried and also on the fuel used

And what is to stop future governments doing what the EU wants?

There's all this "we'll get the right to decide", but you've just shown that they had the right to decide and chose to decide the way the EU wanted.

Now you're claiming that not being in the EU it'll all be different.

How?

Why doesn't the UK either try and make a deal with the EU, or charge foreign trucks to use the roads? It's possible, you know.

Only the fact the people will vote them out and turn around any treaties made.


We tried and the answer was here are some crumbs, but we might decide to give them to Turkey instead.. The EU has blocked it as being unfair to the foreign hauliers, so we have to penalise our own hauliers. Yes it's possible when we leave the EU and watch it sink when it no longer has our money to waste.

Or is this what you are scared of, having to start working harder to make the grade in the EU and not rely on handouts and fraud

The problem is, with welfare, with road taxes, with all this sort of thing, the British governments have shown they're not that smart at dealing with it.

Will they start charging foreign hauliers if the UK leaves the EU? There's no indication this would happen. Seeing as it could happen with a variety of creative ways of charging foreign hauliers at Dover, but they didn't do it.

They tried and the EU blocked it saying it was against the rules of free trade. Yet they allow European nations to drain fuel tanks and force hauliers to fill up at the fuel pumps across the road. All because the fuel in the tanks is cheaper that theirs, and they were losing tax revenues on fuel. Look at EU hauliers and many of their vehicles have belly tanks under the fifth wheel that they can switch in from the cab. Many fell foul of weight rules when we loaded their vehicle with the maximum weights allowed, or when they pre weighed and found the load was too heavy under EU laws. A tractor trailer combo should weigh 11 to 12 tonnes giving a carrying capacity of 20 to 21 tonnes. We booked for a combo weight of 10.5 tonnes to carry the heavy steel plates to Germany and had 14 tonne combo's from Poland turn up. The 21.5 tonne loads carried a 15% surcharge paid on delivery so the drivers could make more money. If they were caught overweight we could be fined for loading them under UK laws, so we did what we must.

Every step of the way the EU screwed the UK to make it harder for us to operate at a profit, they stopped the canteens being subsidised because it made our goods cheaper but still allowed the European firms to offer cut price food in theirs. They brought in the working time directive and then allowed European workers to exceed the hours because of custom and practise. The British had old favourites banned because the yield was higher, and it was stalwarts who kept seeds for their own use that have allowed them to make a comeback. BETTER OUT THAN IN

When people tell me they "tried", I often wonder how hard they tried. Trying doesn't mean much if what you're doing isn't very good.

The UK gets screwed over by the EU, but all the other countries don't, it happens with immigration, it happens with welfare, it happens with road fees.... tell me, do you see a pattern here?

Do you not think the problem might just not be the British government?