Bored of Peace or one more reason I left Trump and MAGA

[OldFlame]

And you have to go back totaling 47 years to places all over the planet to indirectly blame them for less American deaths than China and Mexico cause in a week

So you think we should have gone to war with Mexico and China instead of Iran? You certainly are a class A Iranian sympathizer, I'll give you credit for that.

 

[OldFlame]

I saw that when Jiang proposed it.

You support Trump collapsing the world economy? You know America is part of this world economy, right?

The example I've used before is "like a goldfish winning its freedom by breaking the aquarium"

That's NOT America First, but maybe what's needed to make America a Constitutional Republic free of the Epstein Class

You seriously believe there will be a point where the wealthy and powerful don't control everything?

 

[jc456]

So you think we should have gone to war with Mexico and China instead of Iran? You certainly are a class A Iranian sympathizer, I'll give you credit for that.

It's always been about the oil. Holding over China. That's why Trump hit Venezuela first, to block China, and now with the strait closed, again, no oil for China. It's been the play all along, nothing about Israel, What value did Israel have in Venezuela? none.

 

[jc456]

You seriously believe there will be a point where the wealthy and powerful don't control everything?

He asks me that question after I tell him I am anti global. Frank fell and hit his head or something.

 

[SeaMajor7]

And you have to go back totaling 47 years to places all over the planet to indirectly blame them for less American deaths than China and Mexico cause in a week

That's how long our retarded pacifist refusal to deal with them lasted. We should have kicked their teeth in around 1980 like Trump wanted to then.

 

[jc456]

That's how long our retarded pacifist refusal to deal with them lasted. We should have kicked their teeth in around 1980 like Trump wanted to then.

oh that can't be cause that would mean Bibi wasn't there to get him to join in. It's Frank's position all along.

 

[OldFlame]

It's always been about the oil. Holding over China. That's why Trump hit Venezuela first, to block China, and now with the strait closed, again, no oil for China. It's been the play all along, nothing about Israel, What value did Israel have in Venezuela? none.

Yeah, but Frank believes otherwise, he believes Netanyahu controls the world, including Trump. When Frank says 'Epstein class', he's referring to Netanyahu and those Frank thinks he controls via blackmail material from Epstein.

 

[jc456]

Yeah, but Frank believes otherwise, he believes Netanyahu controls the world, including Trump. When Frank says 'Epstein class', he's referring to Netanyahu and those Frank thinks he controls via blackmail material from Epstein.

I know, crazy, but yeah, I know. Silly shit. Doesn't explain Venezuela at all.

 

[SeaMajor7]

oh that can't be cause that would mean Bibi wasn't there to get him to join in. It's Frank's position all along.

BOOM shack-a-lacka. There it is.
Great point.

 

[dblack]

You get used to it. Somehow they don't "see" those posts.

If you don't adore Trump like they do, you can't be a disgusted Independent or a horrified Conservative, you can only be an evil commie and their enemy.

Look at what they're doing to the OP.

Definitely not a cult.

 

[Papageorgio]

But Kamala sucked worse

Hey, I hear you completely. The lesser of two evils thinking isn’t irrational — it actually comes from caring about the outcome, and that’s a good thing. Nobody wants to feel like their vote helped elect the person they feared most.
But let me push back a little on the “wasted vote” idea, because I think it lets both parties off the hook way too easily.
Here’s the thing — that vote doesn’t disappear. After every election both parties have rooms full of analysts picking apart every number, every shift, every percentage point that moved. When they see third party totals climbing — even spread across multiple different candidates — it triggers a very specific internal panic. Who are those voters? What do they want? How do we get them back? That’s not nothing. That’s actually leverage.
And history backs this up pretty clearly. Ross Perot got almost 19% in 1992 and didn’t win a single electoral vote. Didn’t matter. Within a decade both parties had completely repositioned on the deficit and trade issues he ran on. He lost the election and won the argument. That’s actually the more important victory in the long run.
Same pattern going way back — the movements behind abolition, women’s suffrage, the eight hour work day all had third party energy behind them before the major parties absorbed those positions to win back voters. Third parties punch way above their electoral weight historically when it comes to actually changing policy.
And here’s what really gets me about the lesser of two evils trap — it actually serves both parties perfectly. As long as you’re voting out of fear rather than genuine support, neither party ever has to actually earn your vote. You’re guaranteed to them either way. That’s a terrible negotiating position to be in as a voter.
Now imagine enough people who feel exactly like you do — genuinely dissatisfied, holding their nose every four years — started voting third party instead. You don’t need the third party to win. You just need the numbers to be big enough that both parties feel the threat at the state and district level. Big enough third party totals in enough places and suddenly both parties have a real problem they have to solve by actually changing.
Your vote in that scenario isn’t wasted. Honestly it might be the most strategically interesting vote in the room.

 

[jc456]

Definitely not a cult.

the fact you think that and not the script writing dems, is hilarious.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hey, I hear you completely. The lesser of two evils thinking isn’t irrational — it actually comes from caring about the outcome, and that’s a good thing. Nobody wants to feel like their vote helped elect the person they feared most.
But let me push back a little on the “wasted vote” idea, because I think it lets both parties off the hook way too easily.
Here’s the thing — that vote doesn’t disappear. After every election both parties have rooms full of analysts picking apart every number, every shift, every percentage point that moved. When they see third party totals climbing — even spread across multiple different candidates — it triggers a very specific internal panic. Who are those voters? What do they want? How do we get them back? That’s not nothing. That’s actually leverage.
And history backs this up pretty clearly. Ross Perot got almost 19% in 1992 and didn’t win a single electoral vote. Didn’t matter. Within a decade both parties had completely repositioned on the deficit and trade issues he ran on. He lost the election and won the argument. That’s actually the more important victory in the long run.
Same pattern going way back — the movements behind abolition, women’s suffrage, the eight hour work day all had third party energy behind them before the major parties absorbed those positions to win back voters. Third parties punch way above their electoral weight historically when it comes to actually changing policy.
And here’s what really gets me about the lesser of two evils trap — it actually serves both parties perfectly. As long as you’re voting out of fear rather than genuine support, neither party ever has to actually earn your vote. You’re guaranteed to them either way. That’s a terrible negotiating position to be in as a voter.
Now imagine enough people who feel exactly like you do — genuinely dissatisfied, holding their nose every four years — started voting third party instead. You don’t need the third party to win. You just need the numbers to be big enough that both parties feel the threat at the state and district level. Big enough third party totals in enough places and suddenly both parties have a real problem they have to solve by actually changing.
Your vote in that scenario isn’t wasted. Honestly it might be the most strategically interesting vote in the room.

We got tilted away from the People and the State having power to the Parties.

First thing to end is the "Lesser if two Evils"

Maybe we can start with "None of the above" as the third option?

 

[leftwinger]

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Remember, Trump isn't even half way through his second term. At the rate he's going, he'll wear the crown for "Biggest Spender Of All Time."

Which Presidents Added the Most to the U.S. National D...

Executive summary Since 2000, the largest single-period increases in U.S. national debt have occurred under the administrations of Joe Biden and Donald T...

factually.co

Interest rate high for Trump low for Obiden build in $1T interest cost.

With tarrifs, BBB, GDP pop, countries pay up for free Military, reduction in fraud, penalties, DOGE etc. this problem (created by Stain) should be greatly improved shortly. This is the ONLY President to ever try to improve this situation.

Deep State Congress is the cause and evidently collecting tens of millions each from it.

Please tell me what the "real" Frank missed.

The Iranian delegation was ready to give up EVERYTHING!

And that's the exact moment Bibi and Bribed, blackmailed or demented Trump decided they HAD to strike while negotiations were ongoing.

Please explain it to me

The real CF is not to be confused with Frankenstein or Frankeneinstein when I reliable FrankenStain.

I will change it to CrusaderStain new but not improved. Or BrokenSkank. In fact I may substitute SkankenStain to solve the problem.

Only SkankenStain can fix his own problems with mental damage//

 

[dblack]

Hey, I hear you completely. The lesser of two evils thinking isn’t irrational --

Ultimately, it is. Why is this so hard for people to recognize? It's a con, a losing game.

Nobody wants to feel like their vote helped elect the person they feared most.

This is a conceit on multiple levels:

First of all* - "**** your feelings. We're electing a President, pick someone good and stop foisting shitty leaders on your country with your cowardly vote"
Second - "You're not "helping" anyone with your vote. Your expressing your opinion on who the best candidate is. If you lie, in some ham handed attempt to game the system, you're sabotaging the entire process. THIS is the real "voter fraud" that we should be worried about.

* These quotes are addressed at the LO2E voter, not you personally.

But let me push back a little on the “wasted vote” idea, because I think it lets both parties off the hook way too easily.
Here’s the thing — that vote doesn’t disappear. After every election both parties have rooms full of analysts picking apart every number, every shift, every percentage point that moved. When they see third party totals climbing — even spread across multiple different candidates — it triggers a very specific internal panic. Who are those voters? What do they want? How do we get them back? That’s not nothing. That’s actually leverage.

That's exactly right. And it would work even better with ranked choice voting, where the exact preferences of voters were recorded for all to see. Even if their preferred candidates don't win, if they can get 20% of the vote - especially if they don't have all the advantages of a major party candidate - that's huge. It will get their attention. The majors will either change their tune or, eventually, lose.

And history backs this up pretty clearly. Ross Perot got almost 19% in 1992 and didn’t win a single electoral vote.

Unfortunately, Ds and Rs went into overdrive after Perot's success, and clamped down on things across the country. It's much harder now to do what he did, even if you have the money.

Didn’t matter. Within a decade both parties had completely repositioned on the deficit and trade issues he ran on. He lost the election and won the argument. That’s actually the more important victory in the long run.

Exactly!

Huzzah. Someone gets it!

 

[candycorn]

No one believes the hyperbole

No one believes Iran completely rebuilt their nuke program in less than 3/4 of a year either.....not even you.

 

[candycorn]

Turning left, must mean lying is ok, eh Frank?

Munitions in the USA are primarily produced at government-owned, contractor-operated (GOCO) plants, with key facilities including the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (MO) for small arms, Scranton Army Ammunition Plant (PA) for artillery, and Holston Army Ammunition Plant (TN) for explosives. Major production hubs also exist in Iowa, Oklahoma, and Arkansas.
Rheinmetall +6
Key U.S. Munitions Manufacturing Facilities

• Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (Independence, MO): The largest producer of small arms ammunition for the U.S. Armed Forces.
• Scranton Army Ammunition Plant (Scranton, PA): Specializes in producing large-caliber artillery shells, such as 155mm shells.
• Holston Army Ammunition Plant
  (Kingsport, TN):
  Produces explosives for the military.
  • Iowa Army Ammunition Plant (Middletown, IA): Assembles and packs a wide range of munitions, including warheads and mortar rounds.
  • McAlester Army Ammunition Plant (McAlester, OK): Produces and renovates conventional ammunition.
  • Milan Army Ammunition Plant (Milan, TN): Focuses on loading, assembling, and packing ammunition.

Private and Specialized Producers

• American Rheinmetall Munitions: Operates in East Camden, AR, and North Windham, ME.
• Expal USA Inc.: Located in Hooks, TX.
• Winchester: Operates manufacturing facilities in Oxford, MS, and East Alton, IL, in addition to the Lake City plant.

These sites are vital for supplying the U.S. military and allies, particularly with surging demand for artillery.

We still have allies?

 

[Papageorgio]

Ultimately, it is. Why is this so hard for people to recognize? It's a con, a losing game.


This is a conceit on multiple levels:

First of all* - "**** your feelings. We're electing a President, pick someone good and stop foisting shitty leaders on your country with your cowardly vote"
Second - "You're not "helping" anyone with your vote. Your expressing your opinion on who the best candidate is. If you lie, in some ham handed attempt to game the system, you're sabotaging the entire process. THIS is the real "voter fraud" that we should be worried about.

* These quotes are addressed at the LO2E voter, not you personally.

That's exactly right. And it would work even better with ranked choice voting, where the exact preferences of voters were recorded for all to see. Even if their preferred candidates don't win, if they can get 20% of the vote - especially if they don't have all the advantages of a major party candidate - that's huge. It will get their attention. The majors will either change their tune or, eventually, lose.

Unfortunately, Ds and Rs went into overdrive after Perot's success, and clamped down on things across the country. It's much harder now to do what he did, even if you have the money.

Exactly!

Huzzah. Someone gets it!

McCain Feingold Campaign Finance Reform made sure it was harder for third parties to breakthrough .

That is why we need to all vote for third parties and we absolutely need RCV, but Democrats and Republicans will fight this on national elections, it give “We the People” too much power.

The Republicans and Democratic cult leaders cannot let that happen. They need tribalism to work or they lose power.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Interest rate high for Trump low for Obiden build in $1T interest cost.

With tarrifs, BBB, GDP pop, countries pay up for free Military, reduction in fraud, penalties, DOGE etc. this problem (created by Stain) should be greatly improved shortly. This is the ONLY President to ever try to improve this situation.

Deep State Congress is the cause and evidently collecting tens of millions each from it.


The real CF is not to be confused with Frankenstein or Frankeneinstein when I reliable FrankenStain.

I will change it to CrusaderStain new but not improved. A Briken Skank. In fact I may substitute SkankenStain to solve the problem.

Only SkankenStaon can fix his problems with mental damage//

Most of my former MAGA friends are Political Flatlanders and see only 2 options

 

[dblack]

McCain Feingold Campaign Finance Reform made sure it was harder for third parties to breakthrough .

That is why we need to all vote for third parties and we absolutely need RCV, but Democrats and Republicans will fight this on national elections, it give “We the People” too much power.

The Republicans and Democratic cult leaders cannot let that happen. They need tribalism to work or they lose power.

We had RCV lined up and ready to pass in Colorado. It was polling at close to 70% with voters. But then the DNC caught wind of it and went full tilt with the fear mongering. And, of course, it worked. They managed to scare enough voters away that it didn't pass.