Black cop kills white, unarmed white woman on 1/6 and is rewarded with a promotion

[Lesh]

As another poster said, go fuck yourself LUSH. Byrd is a coward and a murderer. Seems you support druggies who threaten pregnant women.

Seems you support cops killing unarmed black folks who are guilty of misdemeanors

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

----------------------------------------------------------------

Ashli made poor choices, used bad judgement. And cumulatively......it meant her untimely death. That's on her.

Trump at fault?
In my view, he is emphatically not blameless for what happened overall on January 6th.

You just said that Babbitt's death was due to her poor choices. Either that's true or it is not. You can't have it both ways.

First, his December call to assemble on that date...."Be there. Will be wild"....posted to 70 million subscribers to his Tweet feed.
And then on the 6th itself, Trump called to them to fight for him.

Yes. And? Are these things illegal or even unethical?

He said ....'peacefully' from the podium. Once. Now his fig leaf.
But he said "fight" over 20 times.

And? Is there a given balance that Trump was required to maintain; ten "peacefully"s and ten "fight"s for example?

Saying "fight" is used as a rhetorical tool every fucking day by everybody in just about any context. None of this proves that Trump incited or told them to break into the Capital.

You're not rattling any cages here. I'm still not seeing any evidence or logic that says anything other than that these people chose on their own to break into the Capital.

Besides, you and I both know that if he had said both of those words one time, you and everyone else would have glommed onto the word "fight" and ignored "peacefully" altogether simply because they hate Trump.

The message was clear.
And then as the violence increased in intensity and visibility he failed to act as a pro-active responsible leader. A leader of a nation.
He waited hours ---while watching the violence and injuries unfolding..... and did not promptly intervene.

He is at fault for his dereliction of duty. What he did was not leadership. His refusal to immediately and forcefully intervene is on him. And that led to increased violence, increased injuries, and damage to our Capitol. And shame on America.

That is on Don Trump.

I hope I am clear on that.

I can't and won't defend his actions after the riot started and the break-in happened. But I still say that Trump is not culpable for their happening in the first place. Not just for giving a speech, a Constitutional right that everyone has, even politicians you don't like.

It is a dangerous game you people are playing. If Trump can be blamed and held accountable for a riot and break-in on Federal property just for giving an impassioned political speech then look for the 1st Amendment to be totally worthless at some point.

 

[Chillicothe]

Country needs to SPLIT APART and NOW

OK, that is your opinion.
Which, I am sure, is underpinned by a thoughtful analysis on how it would divided up.
Will you share with the forum your suggestion on what this division looks like?

 

[Quasar44]

OK, that is your opinion.
Which, I am sure, is underpinned by a thoughtful analysis on how it would divided up.
Will you share with the forum your suggestion on what this division looks like?

I wish I knew

 

[Chillicothe]

I can't and won't defend his actions after the riot started and the break-in happened. But I still say that Trump is not culpable for their happening in the first place. Not just for giving a speech, a Constitutional right that everyone has, even politicians you don't like.

Trump bears responsibility....not solely, as the MAGA-jackasses who did the physical attack bear much of it too .....but Don Trump knew what his groupies were capable of and how they reacted to his live rhetoric. He had seen it dozens if not hundreds of times during his 2016 campaign, his term in office, and in his 2020 campaign. He knew his people well (ala' 'I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue....').

Responsible leadership requires judiciousness in one's rhetoric in any heated environments with thousands of emotional and animated uber-fans. Don Trump and the crowd-fluffers before him at the Ellipse deliberately angered and incited the assembled crowd.....even when knowing that some of them were armed. ("They are not here to hurt me!")
That is on Don Trump......and Rudy, and Jr. and the crew who spoke before Trump did.

Trump knew the people were angry. Knew some of them were armed. And he deliberately angered them more. And then directed them to focus their anger on our elected Representatives at the Capitol. THAT was irresponsible. Reckless. And a failure of leadership.
Saying 'peacefully' once, and 'fight' multiple times tells everyone which of the two behaviors was more important to him.

So, is Don Trump liable for what happened on January 6th. Hell, yes.

He ain't liable alone, as the pawns that he assembled, angered, and directed also bear considerable blame. They had free will. But what happened on J6 would not have happened without Don Trump.
His active machinations...including his rhetoric, his failure to lead, his assembling the pawns , inciting them, and sending 'em to the Capitol......all that is on Don Trump.

It is a dangerous game you people are playing.

I have no idea who comprises "you people".
But if the good poster Rider is suggesting that patriotic Americans who watched and were appalled by the the lack of leadership from our POTUS, and the ensuing violence on January 6th.......well, if he thinks our disdain of that behavior is a dangerous game, then I would respectfully suggest his priorities as an American are misguided, and sadly out of step with responsible citizenship.

IMHO

 

[Chillicothe]

I wish I knew

????
YOU....suggested it.
Even stating it was 'needed'.
And now you don't know just exactly what is needed?

No disrespect intended, but.......but maybe what is needed is some thoughtful analysis of what one is suggesting --- before suggesting it.

If you don't know what you are suggesting.....then, maybe, not suggest it?

 

[BlindBoo]

So Tweeting is now a crime?


I don't see how this is relevant.

So you think the riot on Jan 6th and Ashley's justifiable homicide in the halls of Congress would have occurred spontaneously without the tweets?

 

[marvin martian]

Seems you support cops killing unarmed black folks who are guilty of misdemeanors

So do you.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Trump bears responsibility....not solely, as the MAGA-jackasses who did the physical attack bear much of it too .....but Don Trump knew what his groupies were capable of and how they reacted to his live rhetoric. He had seen it dozens if not hundreds of times during his 2016 campaign, his term in office, and in his 2020 campaign. He knew his people well (ala' 'I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue....').

Any group of supporters or activists are capable of anything. Trump and Trump supporters are not unique in that respect. Look at CHAZ in Seattle.

Responsible leadership requires judiciousness in one's rhetoric in any heated environments with thousands of emotional and animated uber-fans. Don Trump and the crowd-fluffers before him at the Ellipse deliberately angered and incited the assembled crowd.....even when knowing that some of them were armed. ("They are not here to hurt me!")
That is on Don Trump......and Rudy, and Jr. and the crew who spoke before Trump did.

The crowd was already angry before Trump even spoke. They were angry about what they saw as a stolen election. He didn't incite any emotions or feelings they weren't feeling already.

Having said that, the quote you cite above was taken out of context. There was disagreement between Trump and aides about the magnetometers (metal detectors for weapons) at the rally. The aides wanted to keep the magnetometers in place and this is when Trump supposedly said the above quote.

So, the allegation that Trump knew people in the crowd were armed is patently false. No one knew whether anyone in the crowd was armed or not. In fact, no one was armed at the Capital building later.

Trump knew the people were angry.

And?

Knew some of them were armed.

False.

And he deliberately angered them more.

And? Is this a crime? And how is this any different than Maxine Waters exhorting her supporters to confront Republicans in public and "push back"?

The very point of political speech is to provoke passion about issues.

And then directed them to focus their anger on our elected Representatives at the Capitol.

You mean like Democrats did with President Trump?

Democrats and the media stoked anger and resentment towards Trump for five fucking years during his campaign and term of office. Usually based on lies or by conflating inconsequential remarks into racist rhetoric.

Trump is what he is and he did and said a lot of stupid shit and I really don't want him back in office. But the hatred for him by Democrats was so severe that it became a single-minded obsession to where they criticized him for anything and everything. For the Democrats, Trump could never do anything right even when he did something right.

THAT was irresponsible. Reckless. And a failure of leadership.
Saying 'peacefully' once, and 'fight' multiple times tells everyone which of the two behaviors was more important to him.

And? Again, is this a crime?

So, is Don Trump liable for what happened on January 6th. Hell, yes.

And what if no one had broken into the Capital that day? Would he still be liable for..something, anything, because of his fiery rhetoric at the rally?

He ain't liable alone, as the pawns that he assembled, angered, and directed also bear considerable blame. They had free will. But what happened on J6 would not have happened without Don Trump.

It would not have happened if they had not chosen to break in.

YOU are responsible for how you choose to respond to someone else's words. Words alone have no power in and of themselves but what we give them.

His active machinations...including his rhetoric, his failure to lead, his assembling the pawns , inciting them, and sending 'em to the Capitol......all that is on Don Trump.

"Assembling the pawns"? Jesus Christ.

Trump didn't "assemble" anyone. They all chose to go to D.C. and the rally for their own reasons.

I have no idea who comprises "you people".
But if the good poster Rider is suggesting that patriotic Americans who watched and were appalled by the the lack of leadership from our POTUS, and the ensuing violence on January 6th.......well, if he thinks our disdain of that behavior is a dangerous game, then I would respectfully suggest his priorities as an American are misguided, and sadly out of step with responsible citizenship.

IMHO

Irrelevant. Being appalled by Trump's behavior on Jan. 6 and holding him accountable for his Constitutionally protected speech that others chose to unwisely act on are two different things.

Trump had the right to say what he said on Jan 6. He always did and he still does. That did not change just because some idiots chose to break the law.

I don't give a shit that you are appalled by his behavior. I DO give a shit when people start assigning blame to mere words and speech. That is a huge slippery slope with a very sharp incline that comes dangerously close to encroaching on the principles of the 1st Amendment.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

So you think the riot on Jan 6th and Ashley's justifiable homicide in the halls of Congress would have occurred spontaneously without the tweets?

Answer my question: Is tweeting a crime, yes or no?

 

[BlindBoo]

The crowd was already angry before Trump even spoke.

There were 12 speakers prior to the Don taking the stage. Furthermore, he had spend weeks "thundering that shadowy forces are stealing our country". Since his loss was announced the Trumpyone was “determined to either overturn the voters’ decision or else torch our institutions on the way out.”

 

[BlindBoo]

Answer my question: Is tweeting a crime, yes or no?

Did I call it a crime, or did I say they were the part of the actions Trumpybear took that led to the riot and ultimately her untimely death? Yes or .....?

 

[Lesh]

So do you.

Not even ever you lying fuck

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

There were 12 speakers prior to the Don taking the stage. Furthermore, he had spend weeks "thundering that shadowy forces are stealing our country". Since his loss was announced the Trumpyone was “determined to either overturn the voters’ decision or else torch our institutions on the way out.”

And? His supporters at the rally were still already angry about the election. That's what they were doing there in the first place. The rally was called Stop the Steal after all.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Did I call it a crime, or did I say they were the part of the actions Trumpybear took that led to the riot and ultimately her untimely death? Yes or .....?

You said:

"If he didn't put out those tweets, his army of thugs and ruffians would have never shown up on Jan 6th, and all that followed would never have happened."

I have to assume from this that you have some kind of moral problem with Trump tweeting.

 

[Lesh]

And? His supporters at the rally were still already angry about the election. That's what they were doing there in the first place. The rally was called Stop the Steal after all.

And stopping the Count was what the attack on the Capitol was all about

 

[BlindBoo]

And? His supporters at the rally were still already angry about the election. That's what they were doing there in the first place. The rally was called Stop the Steal after all.

As planned.

 

[Lesh]

As planned.

So how did those Elipse rally goers who wanted to "stop the steal" end up there?

Trump SENT them

 

[BlindBoo]

So how did those Elipse rally goers who wanted to "stop the steal" end up there?

Trump SENT them

Just like an arsonist gathering his tender, lights the flame.....and then skedaddles!

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

And stopping the Count was what the attack on the Capitol was all about

And? I never disputed that or tried to defend it.