Biden's Education Department Will Move Fast to Reverse DeVos' Policies

[Winston]

Biden's Education Department Will Move Fast to Reverse DeVos' Policies

WASHINGTON -- Like most federal agencies, the Education Department followed President Donald Trump's lead in seeking to undo the legacy of his predecessor, and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos diligently tore into President Barack Obama's policies.President-elect Joe Biden's administration

www.yahoo.com

Devos was a mess and failure in that position.

here are the facts:
graduation rates
View attachment 417393

DeVos had no business being the Secretary of Education. She, and her kids, never attended a public school or university. They never had a student loan. The most damning statistic on the American system. The reason countries like Denmark lead the world in innovation while America occupies last place in so many statistics involving industrialized nations. The real American exceptionalism is American is exceptionally inefficient, from infant mortality rates to upward mobility, America falls behind almost every industrialized nation. But the biggest statistic, a student with standardized test scores in the lowest quintile, but with a family income in the highest quintile, has a greater chance of graduating college than a student in the highest quintile of test scores but the lowest quintile in income. That is absolutely FUBARED. The loss in innovation and productivity due to that deference to income, is immeasurable.

If you take out a loan then you have to pay it. If you are whining about the ridiculous cost of an education at our liberal colleges and universities then fix it. But what else would those worthless professors be able to do?

I am not for loan forgiveness. What I am for is free college. The North Carolina Constitution specifically states that a college education should be "free", as far as practical. Hard to make an argument to me that it is not "practical". My sons graduated from a public university with an average debt of around $25,000. They paid that debt off in under two years, but it still pisses me off that they had to have that debt to pay for something that the Constitution says should be free.

 

[Winston]

..... Blindingly supporting a dimwit con artist. A carnival barker at best. Dumber than a box or rocks, so narcistic that it is a real mental illness, and an absolutely screaming failure when it comes to business. .....

You forgot to include "immeasurably more successful than Winston could ever imagine being."

Success: The accomplishment of an aim or purpose. In order to evaluate success one has to look at where one started and where one ends up. Trump was born on third base, and where he ends up has yet to be seen. But it is safe to say that he has never gotten off third base. I am not going to say I started in the batter's box, I got a walk to first base. And not going to claim I am on third base. But I can safely say I have made it to second. So that would make my "success" greater than Trump's. I pay my debts. That alone puts me ahead of Trump. I pay people that work for me, fairly. I have never stiffed a contractor. That puts me ahead of Trump. I paid much more in taxes over the last ten years than Trump. That should count for something.

History is going to be pretty harsh on Trump. The only group of people that will be condemned more than Trump are the fools that blindly supported him.

So funny a party of fools blindly following someone lecturing us on the exact same thing.

The Republican party would burn this country to the ground if they thought that is what they needed to do to remain in power. Sad really. The House is comprised of members that are suppose to take care of their constituents. They are to put their interest first. But the Senate is supposed to be comprised of individuals that have the fortitude, and the morality, to put the nation's interest first, ahead of their state, let alone their party. The Republican members of the Senate have demonstrated, time and time again, that they put the party's interest above that of the nation. Rather it is obstructing Obama's judicial appointments or refusing to pass a second Covid-19 relief bill, for them it is always party first.

Anything Obama put forth should have been resisted, liberal judges make up their own law instead of supporting what is already written and Obama hates the US. And the relief bill issue is not just on Republicans....Pelosi was trying her best to get way more out of it than just a relief bill plush she couldn't care less about us regular peons anyway.

That is just stupid. The biggest act of judicial activism, of judges making up their own laws, was Heller.

 

[jbrownson0831]

Biden's Education Department Will Move Fast to Reverse DeVos' Policies

WASHINGTON -- Like most federal agencies, the Education Department followed President Donald Trump's lead in seeking to undo the legacy of his predecessor, and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos diligently tore into President Barack Obama's policies.President-elect Joe Biden's administration

www.yahoo.com

Devos was a mess and failure in that position.

here are the facts:
graduation rates
View attachment 417393

DeVos had no business being the Secretary of Education. She, and her kids, never attended a public school or university. They never had a student loan. The most damning statistic on the American system. The reason countries like Denmark lead the world in innovation while America occupies last place in so many statistics involving industrialized nations. The real American exceptionalism is American is exceptionally inefficient, from infant mortality rates to upward mobility, America falls behind almost every industrialized nation. But the biggest statistic, a student with standardized test scores in the lowest quintile, but with a family income in the highest quintile, has a greater chance of graduating college than a student in the highest quintile of test scores but the lowest quintile in income. That is absolutely FUBARED. The loss in innovation and productivity due to that deference to income, is immeasurable.

If you take out a loan then you have to pay it. If you are whining about the ridiculous cost of an education at our liberal colleges and universities then fix it. But what else would those worthless professors be able to do?

I am not for loan forgiveness. What I am for is free college. The North Carolina Constitution specifically states that a college education should be "free", as far as practical. Hard to make an argument to me that it is not "practical". My sons graduated from a public university with an average debt of around $25,000. They paid that debt off in under two years, but it still pisses me off that they had to have that debt to pay for something that the Constitution says should be free.

Well I would like to hear your plan for how those fathead college professors will be paid then, and if its on my dime then you can pay my share for me.

 

[jbrownson0831]

..... Blindingly supporting a dimwit con artist. A carnival barker at best. Dumber than a box or rocks, so narcistic that it is a real mental illness, and an absolutely screaming failure when it comes to business. .....

You forgot to include "immeasurably more successful than Winston could ever imagine being."

Success: The accomplishment of an aim or purpose. In order to evaluate success one has to look at where one started and where one ends up. Trump was born on third base, and where he ends up has yet to be seen. But it is safe to say that he has never gotten off third base. I am not going to say I started in the batter's box, I got a walk to first base. And not going to claim I am on third base. But I can safely say I have made it to second. So that would make my "success" greater than Trump's. I pay my debts. That alone puts me ahead of Trump. I pay people that work for me, fairly. I have never stiffed a contractor. That puts me ahead of Trump. I paid much more in taxes over the last ten years than Trump. That should count for something.

History is going to be pretty harsh on Trump. The only group of people that will be condemned more than Trump are the fools that blindly supported him.

So funny a party of fools blindly following someone lecturing us on the exact same thing.

The Republican party would burn this country to the ground if they thought that is what they needed to do to remain in power. Sad really. The House is comprised of members that are suppose to take care of their constituents. They are to put their interest first. But the Senate is supposed to be comprised of individuals that have the fortitude, and the morality, to put the nation's interest first, ahead of their state, let alone their party. The Republican members of the Senate have demonstrated, time and time again, that they put the party's interest above that of the nation. Rather it is obstructing Obama's judicial appointments or refusing to pass a second Covid-19 relief bill, for them it is always party first.

Anything Obama put forth should have been resisted, liberal judges make up their own law instead of supporting what is already written and Obama hates the US. And the relief bill issue is not just on Republicans....Pelosi was trying her best to get way more out of it than just a relief bill plush she couldn't care less about us regular peons anyway.

That is just stupid. The biggest act of judicial activism, of judges making up their own laws, was Heller.

Oh come on....anything that goes to a libber gets appealed until it can be justly ruled on by a Republican.

 

[harmonica]

Biden's Education Department Will Move Fast to Reverse DeVos' Policies

WASHINGTON -- Like most federal agencies, the Education Department followed President Donald Trump's lead in seeking to undo the legacy of his predecessor, and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos diligently tore into President Barack Obama's policies.President-elect Joe Biden's administration

www.yahoo.com

Devos was a mess and failure in that position.

here are the facts:
graduation rates
View attachment 417393

DeVos had no business being the Secretary of Education. She, and her kids, never attended a public school or university. They never had a student loan. The most damning statistic on the American system. The reason countries like Denmark lead the world in innovation while America occupies last place in so many statistics involving industrialized nations. The real American exceptionalism is American is exceptionally inefficient, from infant mortality rates to upward mobility, America falls behind almost every industrialized nation. But the biggest statistic, a student with standardized test scores in the lowest quintile, but with a family income in the highest quintile, has a greater chance of graduating college than a student in the highest quintile of test scores but the lowest quintile in income. That is absolutely FUBARED. The loss in innovation and productivity due to that deference to income, is immeasurable.

If you take out a loan then you have to pay it. If you are whining about the ridiculous cost of an education at our liberal colleges and universities then fix it. But what else would those worthless professors be able to do?

I am not for loan forgiveness. What I am for is free college. The North Carolina Constitution specifically states that a college education should be "free", as far as practical. Hard to make an argument to me that it is not "practical". My sons graduated from a public university with an average debt of around $25,000. They paid that debt off in under two years, but it still pisses me off that they had to have that debt to pay for something that the Constitution says should be free.

free??? where's the $$$$ coming from?

 

[jbrownson0831]

Biden's Education Department Will Move Fast to Reverse DeVos' Policies

WASHINGTON -- Like most federal agencies, the Education Department followed President Donald Trump's lead in seeking to undo the legacy of his predecessor, and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos diligently tore into President Barack Obama's policies.President-elect Joe Biden's administration

www.yahoo.com

Devos was a mess and failure in that position.

here are the facts:
graduation rates
View attachment 417393

DeVos had no business being the Secretary of Education. She, and her kids, never attended a public school or university. They never had a student loan. The most damning statistic on the American system. The reason countries like Denmark lead the world in innovation while America occupies last place in so many statistics involving industrialized nations. The real American exceptionalism is American is exceptionally inefficient, from infant mortality rates to upward mobility, America falls behind almost every industrialized nation. But the biggest statistic, a student with standardized test scores in the lowest quintile, but with a family income in the highest quintile, has a greater chance of graduating college than a student in the highest quintile of test scores but the lowest quintile in income. That is absolutely FUBARED. The loss in innovation and productivity due to that deference to income, is immeasurable.

If you take out a loan then you have to pay it. If you are whining about the ridiculous cost of an education at our liberal colleges and universities then fix it. But what else would those worthless professors be able to do?

I am not for loan forgiveness. What I am for is free college. The North Carolina Constitution specifically states that a college education should be "free", as far as practical. Hard to make an argument to me that it is not "practical". My sons graduated from a public university with an average debt of around $25,000. They paid that debt off in under two years, but it still pisses me off that they had to have that debt to pay for something that the Constitution says should be free.

free??? where's the $$$$ coming from?

Wait for it......wait for it.....

 

[SC Patriot]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

 

[SC Patriot]

Biden's Education Department Will Move Fast to Reverse DeVos' Policies

WASHINGTON -- Like most federal agencies, the Education Department followed President Donald Trump's lead in seeking to undo the legacy of his predecessor, and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos diligently tore into President Barack Obama's policies.President-elect Joe Biden's administration

www.yahoo.com

Devos was a mess and failure in that position.

here are the facts:
graduation rates
View attachment 417393

DeVos had no business being the Secretary of Education. She, and her kids, never attended a public school or university. They never had a student loan. The most damning statistic on the American system. The reason countries like Denmark lead the world in innovation while America occupies last place in so many statistics involving industrialized nations. The real American exceptionalism is American is exceptionally inefficient, from infant mortality rates to upward mobility, America falls behind almost every industrialized nation. But the biggest statistic, a student with standardized test scores in the lowest quintile, but with a family income in the highest quintile, has a greater chance of graduating college than a student in the highest quintile of test scores but the lowest quintile in income. That is absolutely FUBARED. The loss in innovation and productivity due to that deference to income, is immeasurable.

If you take out a loan then you have to pay it. If you are whining about the ridiculous cost of an education at our liberal colleges and universities then fix it. But what else would those worthless professors be able to do?

I am not for loan forgiveness. What I am for is free college. The North Carolina Constitution specifically states that a college education should be "free", as far as practical. Hard to make an argument to me that it is not "practical". My sons graduated from a public university with an average debt of around $25,000. They paid that debt off in under two years, but it still pisses me off that they had to have that debt to pay for something that the Constitution says should be free.

free??? where's the $$$$ coming from?

PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE.........whatever the fuck that means

 

[jbrownson0831]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

Well you have just described the difference between a Democrat and a Republican.

 

[SC Patriot]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

Well you have just described the difference between a Democrat and a Republican.

No. The difference between the ambitious and the entitled.

 

[jbrownson0831]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

Well you have just described the difference between a Democrat and a Republican.

No. The difference between the ambitious and the entitled.

What I said....entitled and ambitious, Dem and Republican

 

[22lcidw]

We are due for a kid to spaz out with a mass murder event. Maybe Trump's policies reduced the pressure a bit.

 

[Winston]

Biden's Education Department Will Move Fast to Reverse DeVos' Policies

WASHINGTON -- Like most federal agencies, the Education Department followed President Donald Trump's lead in seeking to undo the legacy of his predecessor, and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos diligently tore into President Barack Obama's policies.President-elect Joe Biden's administration

www.yahoo.com

Devos was a mess and failure in that position.

here are the facts:
graduation rates
View attachment 417393

DeVos had no business being the Secretary of Education. She, and her kids, never attended a public school or university. They never had a student loan. The most damning statistic on the American system. The reason countries like Denmark lead the world in innovation while America occupies last place in so many statistics involving industrialized nations. The real American exceptionalism is American is exceptionally inefficient, from infant mortality rates to upward mobility, America falls behind almost every industrialized nation. But the biggest statistic, a student with standardized test scores in the lowest quintile, but with a family income in the highest quintile, has a greater chance of graduating college than a student in the highest quintile of test scores but the lowest quintile in income. That is absolutely FUBARED. The loss in innovation and productivity due to that deference to income, is immeasurable.

If you take out a loan then you have to pay it. If you are whining about the ridiculous cost of an education at our liberal colleges and universities then fix it. But what else would those worthless professors be able to do?

I am not for loan forgiveness. What I am for is free college. The North Carolina Constitution specifically states that a college education should be "free", as far as practical. Hard to make an argument to me that it is not "practical". My sons graduated from a public university with an average debt of around $25,000. They paid that debt off in under two years, but it still pisses me off that they had to have that debt to pay for something that the Constitution says should be free.

free??? where's the $$$$ coming from?

Sec. 9. Benefits of public institutions of higher education.

The General Assembly shall provide that the benefits of The University of North Carolina and other public institutions of higher education, as far as practicable, be extended to the people of the State free of expense.

NC Constitution - Article 9 - North Carolina General Assembly

www.ncleg.gov

Where does the money come from? Well, suppose to be from here,

Sec. 6. State school fund.

The proceeds of all lands that have been or hereafter may be granted by the United States to this State, and not otherwise appropriated by this State or the United States; all moneys, stocks, bonds, and other property belonging to the State for purposes of public education; the net proceeds of all sales of the swamp lands belonging to the State; and all other grants, gifts, and devises that have been or hereafter may be made to the State, and not otherwise appropriated by the State or by the terms of the grant, gift, or devise, shall be paid into the State Treasury and, together with so much of the revenue of the State as may be set apart for that purpose, shall be faithfully appropriated and used exclusively for establishing and maintaining a uniform system of free public schools.



Sec. 7. County school fund; State fund for certain moneys.

(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, all moneys, stocks, bonds, and other property belonging to a county school fund, and the clear proceeds of all penalties and forfeitures and of all fines collected in the several counties for any breach of the penal laws of the State, shall belong to and remain in the several counties, and shall be faithfully appropriated and used exclusively for maintaining free public schools.

(b) The General Assembly may place in a State fund the clear proceeds of all civil penalties, forfeitures, and fines which are collected by State agencies and which belong to the public schools pursuant to subsection (a) of this section. Moneys in such State fund shall be faithfully appropriated by the General Assembly, on a per pupil basis, to the counties, to be used exclusively for maintaining free public schools. (2003‑423, s.1.)

 

[SC Patriot]

You are aware of what happens when something is free and requires no sacrifice. No?
Here is a simple analogy. If you buy a new car and it cost you a lot of money.....would you ever try to park it in a tight spot or would you walk the extra 20 yards so you can feel comfortable knowing it will not likely get a ding in the door?

Now, if that car was free and if you got a ding in the door, you were entitled to a brand new car as its replacement, would you park 20 yards away or take the quicker route and park in the tight spot?

It is not rocket science. It is human nature.

 

[Winston]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

I will gnaw on it and spit it right back. I will use my oldest son as an example. Thankfully, I raised him in North Carolina. The public school he attended, well it was good, but it was not anything close to say, Providence High in Charlotte, a private school. And I never made much money until the kids were gone, I was the oldest too, and like me, he missed out on much of the income expansion my father and I experienced in those golden years, 40-60.

So he didn't grow up wealthy, and he lacked much of the life experiences his wealthy cohorts had. His standardized test scores were not superior. One of the saddest days of my life was secretly watching as he logged on to check those scores. The dejection he felt was heartbreaking. But they were good enough to get him in to a good public university. Not Carolina, Not State, but the next best.

So here is the point. He did borrow to go to school. But if he would not have had that ability, and if he would not have gotten grants, well he just might have been an electrician That's great. I would be proud of him. A skilled trade, and maybe he would be making eighty grand a year, and no debt, and at 25, he could even be saving for retirement. And paying taxes. So, for this nation, for this world, he would be paying taxes and fixing electrical issues. A fair contribution.

Well, he is 25. College graduate, two years away from a Phd in Material Science from one of those schools he couldn't get into as an undergraduate. He is a engineering scientist. He is one of the world's leading experts on "creep". If you get your power from a steam generation plan, coal or gas, well that plant operates more efficiently than ever before, at higher temperatures. And it doesn't blow the hell up because of people like my son, if not just, my son.

So never mind, he has paid off that student debt, a long time ago. Just refinanced his house, that he closed on before he ever walked across the stage, financed with his offer letter. So now it is fifteen years to payoff, He should knock it out in seven. Nice house too, above the median value to say the least. And never mind his retirement account is above the average for a retiree today. Just think what he contributes to this nation, to this world. He travels all over the world, or, well he did before the whole Covid-19 pandemic, meets with power companies, universities, Oxford actually asked him to come to finish that Phd. So what kind of "contribution" to you think he is going to make.

Look, the point is not my son. The point is that today, all across this nation, there are individuals like my son, like your example, that , are electricians instead of the engineering scientist they could have been. What has this world lost? What have we thrown away. Because this is not about the individual, this is about all of us. There are not a few of those individuals, there are thousands of them.

And just to put in terms you might understand. Had my son become an electrician, and if you get your power from a steam generation plant, your power bill is probably a couple of bucks cheaper every month because of the work he does on steel/nickel alloy boiler plates. Now, multiply that by thousands of people, and multiply that same number by the thousands of people that DID become electricians, and you are starting to see the economic impact of education and financial policies that promote elitism. Seems the price of a few overly educated baristas with forgiven student loan debt as the cost of preventing that, I say we are getting a pretty good deal.

 

[harmonica]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

I will gnaw on it and spit it right back. I will use my oldes son as an example. Thankfully, I raised him in North Carolina. The public school he attended, well it was good, but it was not anything close to say, Providence High in Charlotte, a private school. And I never made much money until the kids were gone, I was the oldest too, and like me, he missed out on much of the income expansion my father and I experienced in those golden years, 40-60.

So he didn't grow up wealthy, and he lacked much of the life experiences his wealthy cohorts had. His standardized test scores were not superior. One of the saddest days of my life was secretly watching as he logged on to check those scores. The dejection he felt was heartbreaking. But they were good enough to get him in to a good public university. Not Carolina, Not State, but the next best.

So here is the point. He did borrow to go to school. But if he would not have had that ability, and if he would not have gotten grants, well he just might have been an electrician That's great. I would be proud of him. A skilled trade, and maybe he would be making eighty grand a year, and no debt, and at 25, he could even be saving for retirement. And paying taxes. So, for this nation, for this world, he would be paying taxes and fixing electrical issues. A fair contribution.

Well, he is 25. College graduate, two years away from a Phd in Material Science from one of those schools he couldn't get into as an undergraduate. He is a engineering scientist. He is one of the world's leading experts on "creep". If you get your power from a steam generation plan, coal or gas, well that plant operates more efficiently than ever before, at higher temperatures. And it doesn't blow the hell up because of people like my son, if not just, my son.

So never mind, he has paid of that student debt, a long time ago. Just refinanced his house, that he closed on before he ever walked across the stage, financed with his offer letter. So now it is fifteen years to payoff, He should knock it out in seven. Nice house too, above the median value to say the least. And never mind his retirement account is above the average for a retiree today. Just think what he contributes to this nation, to this world. He travels all over the world, or, well he did before the whole Covid-19 pandemic, meets with power companies, universities, Oxford actually asked him to come to finish that Phd. So what kind of "contribution" to you think he is going to make.

Look, the point is not my son. The point is that today, all across this nation, there are individuals like my son, like your example, that , electricians instead of the engineering scientist they could have been. What has this world lost? What have we thrown away. Because this is not about the individual, this is about all of us. There are not a few of those individuals, there are thousands of them.

And just to put in terms you might understand. Had my son become an electrician, and if you get your power from a steam generation plant, your power bill is probably a couple of bucks cheaper every month because of the work he does on steel/nickel alloy boiler plates. Now, multiply that by thousands of people, and multiply that same number by the thousands of people that DID become electricians, and you are starting to see the economic impact of education and financial policies that promote elitism. Seems the price of a few overly educated baristas with forgiven student loan debt as the cost of prevented that, I say we are getting a pretty good deal.

...your son is not the only graduate in the world!!!
....hey pal, I've got news for you--some people are just stupid and/or don't have the discipline/drive/BRAINS/etc for college
.....the world needs ditch diggers too

 

[Staidhup]

Biden will do whatever the teachers union tells him to do. The last thing the union wants is choice, vouchers, and accountability.

 

[Staidhup]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

I will gnaw on it and spit it right back. I will use my oldest son as an example. Thankfully, I raised him in North Carolina. The public school he attended, well it was good, but it was not anything close to say, Providence High in Charlotte, a private school. And I never made much money until the kids were gone, I was the oldest too, and like me, he missed out on much of the income expansion my father and I experienced in those golden years, 40-60.

So he didn't grow up wealthy, and he lacked much of the life experiences his wealthy cohorts had. His standardized test scores were not superior. One of the saddest days of my life was secretly watching as he logged on to check those scores. The dejection he felt was heartbreaking. But they were good enough to get him in to a good public university. Not Carolina, Not State, but the next best.

So here is the point. He did borrow to go to school. But if he would not have had that ability, and if he would not have gotten grants, well he just might have been an electrician That's great. I would be proud of him. A skilled trade, and maybe he would be making eighty grand a year, and no debt, and at 25, he could even be saving for retirement. And paying taxes. So, for this nation, for this world, he would be paying taxes and fixing electrical issues. A fair contribution.

Well, he is 25. College graduate, two years away from a Phd in Material Science from one of those schools he couldn't get into as an undergraduate. He is a engineering scientist. He is one of the world's leading experts on "creep". If you get your power from a steam generation plan, coal or gas, well that plant operates more efficiently than ever before, at higher temperatures. And it doesn't blow the hell up because of people like my son, if not just, my son.

So never mind, he has paid off that student debt, a long time ago. Just refinanced his house, that he closed on before he ever walked across the stage, financed with his offer letter. So now it is fifteen years to payoff, He should knock it out in seven. Nice house too, above the median value to say the least. And never mind his retirement account is above the average for a retiree today. Just think what he contributes to this nation, to this world. He travels all over the world, or, well he did before the whole Covid-19 pandemic, meets with power companies, universities, Oxford actually asked him to come to finish that Phd. So what kind of "contribution" to you think he is going to make.

Look, the point is not my son. The point is that today, all across this nation, there are individuals like my son, like your example, that , are electricians instead of the engineering scientist they could have been. What has this world lost? What have we thrown away. Because this is not about the individual, this is about all of us. There are not a few of those individuals, there are thousands of them.

And just to put in terms you might understand. Had my son become an electrician, and if you get your power from a steam generation plant, your power bill is probably a couple of bucks cheaper every month because of the work he does on steel/nickel alloy boiler plates. Now, multiply that by thousands of people, and multiply that same number by the thousands of people that DID become electricians, and you are starting to see the economic impact of education and financial policies that promote elitism. Seems the price of a few overly educated baristas with forgiven student loan debt as the cost of preventing that, I say we are getting a pretty good deal.

Now imagine the opportunities your son would have had within a voucher or choice system.

 

[SC Patriot]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

I will gnaw on it and spit it right back. I will use my oldest son as an example. Thankfully, I raised him in North Carolina. The public school he attended, well it was good, but it was not anything close to say, Providence High in Charlotte, a private school. And I never made much money until the kids were gone, I was the oldest too, and like me, he missed out on much of the income expansion my father and I experienced in those golden years, 40-60.

So he didn't grow up wealthy, and he lacked much of the life experiences his wealthy cohorts had. His standardized test scores were not superior. One of the saddest days of my life was secretly watching as he logged on to check those scores. The dejection he felt was heartbreaking. But they were good enough to get him in to a good public university. Not Carolina, Not State, but the next best.

So here is the point. He did borrow to go to school. But if he would not have had that ability, and if he would not have gotten grants, well he just might have been an electrician That's great. I would be proud of him. A skilled trade, and maybe he would be making eighty grand a year, and no debt, and at 25, he could even be saving for retirement. And paying taxes. So, for this nation, for this world, he would be paying taxes and fixing electrical issues. A fair contribution.

Well, he is 25. College graduate, two years away from a Phd in Material Science from one of those schools he couldn't get into as an undergraduate. He is a engineering scientist. He is one of the world's leading experts on "creep". If you get your power from a steam generation plan, coal or gas, well that plant operates more efficiently than ever before, at higher temperatures. And it doesn't blow the hell up because of people like my son, if not just, my son.

So never mind, he has paid off that student debt, a long time ago. Just refinanced his house, that he closed on before he ever walked across the stage, financed with his offer letter. So now it is fifteen years to payoff, He should knock it out in seven. Nice house too, above the median value to say the least. And never mind his retirement account is above the average for a retiree today. Just think what he contributes to this nation, to this world. He travels all over the world, or, well he did before the whole Covid-19 pandemic, meets with power companies, universities, Oxford actually asked him to come to finish that Phd. So what kind of "contribution" to you think he is going to make.

Look, the point is not my son. The point is that today, all across this nation, there are individuals like my son, like your example, that , are electricians instead of the engineering scientist they could have been. What has this world lost? What have we thrown away. Because this is not about the individual, this is about all of us. There are not a few of those individuals, there are thousands of them.

And just to put in terms you might understand. Had my son become an electrician, and if you get your power from a steam generation plant, your power bill is probably a couple of bucks cheaper every month because of the work he does on steel/nickel alloy boiler plates. Now, multiply that by thousands of people, and multiply that same number by the thousands of people that DID become electricians, and you are starting to see the economic impact of education and financial policies that promote elitism. Seems the price of a few overly educated baristas with forgiven student loan debt as the cost of preventing that, I say we are getting a pretty good deal.

I am not sure where you are going with this post. As I read it, your son was not privelaged, your son was well educated. you son achieved ussess.....but someohow, the system is wrong?

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

I will gnaw on it and spit it right back. I will use my oldest son as an example. Thankfully, I raised him in North Carolina. The public school he attended, well it was good, but it was not anything close to say, Providence High in Charlotte, a private school. And I never made much money until the kids were gone, I was the oldest too, and like me, he missed out on much of the income expansion my father and I experienced in those golden years, 40-60.

So he didn't grow up wealthy, and he lacked much of the life experiences his wealthy cohorts had. His standardized test scores were not superior. One of the saddest days of my life was secretly watching as he logged on to check those scores. The dejection he felt was heartbreaking. But they were good enough to get him in to a good public university. Not Carolina, Not State, but the next best.

So here is the point. He did borrow to go to school. But if he would not have had that ability, and if he would not have gotten grants, well he just might have been an electrician That's great. I would be proud of him. A skilled trade, and maybe he would be making eighty grand a year, and no debt, and at 25, he could even be saving for retirement. And paying taxes. So, for this nation, for this world, he would be paying taxes and fixing electrical issues. A fair contribution.

Well, he is 25. College graduate, two years away from a Phd in Material Science from one of those schools he couldn't get into as an undergraduate. He is a engineering scientist. He is one of the world's leading experts on "creep". If you get your power from a steam generation plan, coal or gas, well that plant operates more efficiently than ever before, at higher temperatures. And it doesn't blow the hell up because of people like my son, if not just, my son.

So never mind, he has paid off that student debt, a long time ago. Just refinanced his house, that he closed on before he ever walked across the stage, financed with his offer letter. So now it is fifteen years to payoff, He should knock it out in seven. Nice house too, above the median value to say the least. And never mind his retirement account is above the average for a retiree today. Just think what he contributes to this nation, to this world. He travels all over the world, or, well he did before the whole Covid-19 pandemic, meets with power companies, universities, Oxford actually asked him to come to finish that Phd. So what kind of "contribution" to you think he is going to make.

Look, the point is not my son. The point is that today, all across this nation, there are individuals like my son, like your example, that , are electricians instead of the engineering scientist they could have been. What has this world lost? What have we thrown away. Because this is not about the individual, this is about all of us. There are not a few of those individuals, there are thousands of them.

And just to put in terms you might understand. Had my son become an electrician, and if you get your power from a steam generation plant, your power bill is probably a couple of bucks cheaper every month because of the work he does on steel/nickel alloy boiler plates. Now, multiply that by thousands of people, and multiply that same number by the thousands of people that DID become electricians, and you are starting to see the economic impact of education and financial policies that promote elitism. Seems the price of a few overly educated baristas with forgiven student loan debt as the cost of preventing that, I say we are getting a pretty good deal.

OK. Nice, long response.
Now I read it, I read it twice....but it seems you are saying your son did not have the advantage of privilege, your son achieved success on the less and your son has no debt.
So the problem is what?

 

[Winston]

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

I will gnaw on it and spit it right back. I will use my oldest son as an example. Thankfully, I raised him in North Carolina. The public school he attended, well it was good, but it was not anything close to say, Providence High in Charlotte, a private school. And I never made much money until the kids were gone, I was the oldest too, and like me, he missed out on much of the income expansion my father and I experienced in those golden years, 40-60.

So he didn't grow up wealthy, and he lacked much of the life experiences his wealthy cohorts had. His standardized test scores were not superior. One of the saddest days of my life was secretly watching as he logged on to check those scores. The dejection he felt was heartbreaking. But they were good enough to get him in to a good public university. Not Carolina, Not State, but the next best.

So here is the point. He did borrow to go to school. But if he would not have had that ability, and if he would not have gotten grants, well he just might have been an electrician That's great. I would be proud of him. A skilled trade, and maybe he would be making eighty grand a year, and no debt, and at 25, he could even be saving for retirement. And paying taxes. So, for this nation, for this world, he would be paying taxes and fixing electrical issues. A fair contribution.

Well, he is 25. College graduate, two years away from a Phd in Material Science from one of those schools he couldn't get into as an undergraduate. He is a engineering scientist. He is one of the world's leading experts on "creep". If you get your power from a steam generation plan, coal or gas, well that plant operates more efficiently than ever before, at higher temperatures. And it doesn't blow the hell up because of people like my son, if not just, my son.

So never mind, he has paid off that student debt, a long time ago. Just refinanced his house, that he closed on before he ever walked across the stage, financed with his offer letter. So now it is fifteen years to payoff, He should knock it out in seven. Nice house too, above the median value to say the least. And never mind his retirement account is above the average for a retiree today. Just think what he contributes to this nation, to this world. He travels all over the world, or, well he did before the whole Covid-19 pandemic, meets with power companies, universities, Oxford actually asked him to come to finish that Phd. So what kind of "contribution" to you think he is going to make.

Look, the point is not my son. The point is that today, all across this nation, there are individuals like my son, like your example, that , are electricians instead of the engineering scientist they could have been. What has this world lost? What have we thrown away. Because this is not about the individual, this is about all of us. There are not a few of those individuals, there are thousands of them.

And just to put in terms you might understand. Had my son become an electrician, and if you get your power from a steam generation plant, your power bill is probably a couple of bucks cheaper every month because of the work he does on steel/nickel alloy boiler plates. Now, multiply that by thousands of people, and multiply that same number by the thousands of people that DID become electricians, and you are starting to see the economic impact of education and financial policies that promote elitism. Seems the price of a few overly educated baristas with forgiven student loan debt as the cost of preventing that, I say we are getting a pretty good deal.

I am not sure where you are going with this post. As I read it, your son was not privelaged, your son was well educated. you son achieved ussess.....but someohow, the system is wrong?

Here is something to gnaw on.

If I were disadvantaged fiancially and unable to get a student loan.....and instead learned a trade such as electircal contractor...

Who is better off? The one whos parents got them a student loan of 200K that needs to be paid back while working as an intern for free at the top publishing company in Spokane or the one who worked his/her way up from a guy/gril that drove the truck to the jobs and then became an electrician at 60K a year with no debt?

I will gnaw on it and spit it right back. I will use my oldest son as an example. Thankfully, I raised him in North Carolina. The public school he attended, well it was good, but it was not anything close to say, Providence High in Charlotte, a private school. And I never made much money until the kids were gone, I was the oldest too, and like me, he missed out on much of the income expansion my father and I experienced in those golden years, 40-60.

So he didn't grow up wealthy, and he lacked much of the life experiences his wealthy cohorts had. His standardized test scores were not superior. One of the saddest days of my life was secretly watching as he logged on to check those scores. The dejection he felt was heartbreaking. But they were good enough to get him in to a good public university. Not Carolina, Not State, but the next best.

So here is the point. He did borrow to go to school. But if he would not have had that ability, and if he would not have gotten grants, well he just might have been an electrician That's great. I would be proud of him. A skilled trade, and maybe he would be making eighty grand a year, and no debt, and at 25, he could even be saving for retirement. And paying taxes. So, for this nation, for this world, he would be paying taxes and fixing electrical issues. A fair contribution.

Well, he is 25. College graduate, two years away from a Phd in Material Science from one of those schools he couldn't get into as an undergraduate. He is a engineering scientist. He is one of the world's leading experts on "creep". If you get your power from a steam generation plan, coal or gas, well that plant operates more efficiently than ever before, at higher temperatures. And it doesn't blow the hell up because of people like my son, if not just, my son.

So never mind, he has paid off that student debt, a long time ago. Just refinanced his house, that he closed on before he ever walked across the stage, financed with his offer letter. So now it is fifteen years to payoff, He should knock it out in seven. Nice house too, above the median value to say the least. And never mind his retirement account is above the average for a retiree today. Just think what he contributes to this nation, to this world. He travels all over the world, or, well he did before the whole Covid-19 pandemic, meets with power companies, universities, Oxford actually asked him to come to finish that Phd. So what kind of "contribution" to you think he is going to make.

Look, the point is not my son. The point is that today, all across this nation, there are individuals like my son, like your example, that , are electricians instead of the engineering scientist they could have been. What has this world lost? What have we thrown away. Because this is not about the individual, this is about all of us. There are not a few of those individuals, there are thousands of them.

And just to put in terms you might understand. Had my son become an electrician, and if you get your power from a steam generation plant, your power bill is probably a couple of bucks cheaper every month because of the work he does on steel/nickel alloy boiler plates. Now, multiply that by thousands of people, and multiply that same number by the thousands of people that DID become electricians, and you are starting to see the economic impact of education and financial policies that promote elitism. Seems the price of a few overly educated baristas with forgiven student loan debt as the cost of preventing that, I say we are getting a pretty good deal.

OK. Nice, long response.
Now I read it, I read it twice....but it seems you are saying your son did not have the advantage of privilege, your son achieved success on the less and your son has no debt.
So the problem is what?

The problem is there are thousands of individuals like my son, who did not have the support from their state, that he had. Did not have the ability to negotiate the federal student financial aid apparatus, and they became electricians instead of engineering scientists. That is lost potential, for all of us.

Put another way the greatest return on government spending happened after WWII. The GI bill and it's education benefits provided an huge return on investment that helped propel the economic expansion of the 50's and 60's.