Better Life = Better Faith?

[presonorek]

There is this common cliche` that people like to use. When something favorable happens people like to say, "There is a god!" in a humorous manner. This phrase is contrary to the personality of Job in the famous Old Testament book of Job. He believed in God, praised God, trusted God and sought God's counsel even in the face of great adversity. However, is this mentality commonplace?

In my personal journey through life I have experienced greater faith during the good times of my life. When my life is going fantastic I can easily ignore and disregard the logical fallacies of the religion of my youth. Adversity and troubled times encourage the rational side to shine through. These are the times when I doubted the divinity of Christ and even the existence of God.

Has anybody else ever caught themselves being a fair weather fan of Christ? Has anybody else struggled with such a shallow sense of faith or am I the only one?

To sum it up: When life is great then I believe God created the universe and that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. When my life has been bad I thought that kind of stuff sounded a little shady, foolish and unrealistic.

In the Broadway Musical, Book of Mormon, they created a anti-thesis to the Book of Job with the song, "Hasa Diga Eebowai". The Hasa Diga Eebowai song insinuates that people living in horrible conditions are atheist or even anti-theist. This is declared as human nature. Do people really love God less when times are bad? Do they really love God more when times are good? Is it possibly the other way around? What do you guys say? Have you ever noticed a pattern in your personal life in this regard?

I certainly have.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Misery breeds faith. More miserable an area, more religious the people of it.

Why Is Mississippi More Religious Than New Hampshire?

"Quality of life

I wondered whether state differences might follow a similar pattern as that already established for different countries. Various researchers report that religion declines as the quality of life improves. Evidently, religion acts as a form of emotion-focused coping in the jargon of clinical psychology. This means that miserable living conditions drive people into churches.

In sub-Saharan Africa, where the quality of life is abysmal, almost everyone is religious (1). The quality of life is much better in Europe and religion is at a very low ebb.

This raises the question of whether New Hampshire resembles Europe in having a good quality of life and weak religion. Is Mississippi more like sub-Saharan Africa in having a lower quality of life and stronger religion?"

more at link

 

[presonorek]

I have always been the opposite of the norm.

Misery breeds faith. More miserable an area, more religious the people of it.

Why Is Mississippi More Religious Than New Hampshire?

"Quality of life

I wondered whether state differences might follow a similar pattern as that already established for different countries. Various researchers report that religion declines as the quality of life improves. Evidently, religion acts as a form of emotion-focused coping in the jargon of clinical psychology. This means that miserable living conditions drive people into churches.

In sub-Saharan Africa, where the quality of life is abysmal, almost everyone is religious (1). The quality of life is much better in Europe and religion is at a very low ebb.

This raises the question of whether New Hampshire resembles Europe in having a good quality of life and weak religion. Is Mississippi more like sub-Saharan Africa in having a lower quality of life and stronger religion?"

more at link

 

[JakeStarkey]

Hard times encourage a harder look at the intersection of religion and business.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I've seen "hard times" and good times.
I've watched people close to me die miserably.

When I've been in the middle of truly hard times, I've never even thought about god. It just wouldn't occur to me.

The two people I watched die miserably painful deaths - one was Christian and never lost or questioned that faith. The other was atheist and also never questioned that.

If you're weak and unsure of what you believe, you're more likely to change.

A seemingly common source of the two belly button born again type is prison. If I were stuck in prison, I might want the parole board to think I'd come down with a severe case of god.

I've seen a LOT of people who suffered from CNS injuries. That's brain and spine, catastrophic, life changing injuries. The stuff of bad soap operas where the doctor comes in and says "you'll never walk again" or "your son's brain is gone".

Most CNS injuries are young men - "Here, hold my beer". What I saw in every one of them, men and women alike, was that whatever they were before the accident was magnified by the accident.

If they were active and athletic, they sailed through physical therapy. If they were sedentary, they had a very hard time learning even the smallest task. If they were spoiled and lazy, they became more lazy and more demanding that they be taken care of.

I suppose there were plenty who found a new strength and determination because of their injury but I never saw it. I would imagine there were some who "found god" but I didn't see that either.

What I did see was the faithful tended to remain so while the non-believer also stayed non-believers. I also saw the "why has god forsaken me?" type.

We're not made from a cookie cutter.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

There is this common cliche` that people like to use. When something favorable happens people like to say, "There is a god!" in a humorous manner. This phrase is contrary to the personality of Job in the famous Old Testament book of Job. He believed in God, praised God, trusted God and sought God's counsel even in the face of great adversity. However, is this mentality commonplace?

In my personal journey through life I have experienced greater faith during the good times of my life. When my life is going fantastic I can easily ignore and disregard the logical fallacies of the religion of my youth. Adversity and troubled times encourage the rational side to shine through. These are the times when I doubted the divinity of Christ and even the existence of God.

Has anybody else ever caught themselves being a fair weather fan of Christ? Has anybody else struggled with such a shallow sense of faith or am I the only one?

To sum it up: When life is great then I believe God created the universe and that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. When my life has been bad I thought that kind of stuff sounded a little shady, foolish and unrealistic.

In the Broadway Musical, Book of Mormon, they created a anti-thesis to the Book of Job with the song, "Hasa Diga Eebowai". The Hasa Diga Eebowai song insinuates that people living in horrible conditions are atheist or even anti-theist. This is declared as human nature. Do people really love God less when times are bad? Do they really love God more when times are good? Is it possibly the other way around? What do you guys say? Have you ever noticed a pattern in your personal life in this regard?

I certainly have.

I believe that Christians who truly have their faith in Jesus Christ have the same determination Job demonstrated. We will love God and serve God no matter what. I do not serve God for His benefits. I serve God because I love God and Jesus Christ is my everything. Every valley in my life has drawn me closer to the LORD. I find that to be the normal experience for the born again believer who loves Jesus Christ.

For the person who does not understand the relationship of the Christian to Jesus Christ - it is this way - when a person falls in love they tell everyone of their beloved, they talk to their beloved every opportunity they have, their thoughts are constantly on their beloved, they marry, they have children and the relationship becomes richer as time goes on. If the relationship cannot endure the storms of life, loss of job, sickness, poverty - the same as it endures - the blessings of life, a better job, good health, then was it a marriage based on love, commitment, the keeping of ones vows no matter what? Or was it just a convenience at the time? A fad? An attraction that was not love but based on the benefits one would receive? The choice is not between heaven and hell. The choice is between Jesus Christ and this world! If you love this world? The love of the father is not in you. You cannot love the world and love Jesus Christ too. It is one or the other. The love of the world is to be at enmity with God. Those who love the things of this world are perishing.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Misery breeds faith. More miserable an area, more religious the people of it.

Why Is Mississippi More Religious Than New Hampshire?

"Quality of life

I wondered whether state differences might follow a similar pattern as that already established for different countries. Various researchers report that religion declines as the quality of life improves. Evidently, religion acts as a form of emotion-focused coping in the jargon of clinical psychology. This means that miserable living conditions drive people into churches.

In sub-Saharan Africa, where the quality of life is abysmal, almost everyone is religious (1). The quality of life is much better in Europe and religion is at a very low ebb.

This raises the question of whether New Hampshire resembles Europe in having a good quality of life and weak religion. Is Mississippi more like sub-Saharan Africa in having a lower quality of life and stronger religion?"

more at link

Misery does not breed Christians. As for the sub-Saharan Africa - there is a saying - when Jesus is all you have you find out that Jesus is all you need. It's true. But I'd rather have Jesus in a mud hut than to live in a palace without Him. To know Jesus Christ and for Him to know you is the greatest blessing any person could ever have.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

There is this common cliche` that people like to use. When something favorable happens people like to say, "There is a god!" in a humorous manner. This phrase is contrary to the personality of Job in the famous Old Testament book of Job. He believed in God, praised God, trusted God and sought God's counsel even in the face of great adversity. However, is this mentality commonplace?

In my personal journey through life I have experienced greater faith during the good times of my life. When my life is going fantastic I can easily ignore and disregard the logical fallacies of the religion of my youth. Adversity and troubled times encourage the rational side to shine through. These are the times when I doubted the divinity of Christ and even the existence of God.

Has anybody else ever caught themselves being a fair weather fan of Christ? Has anybody else struggled with such a shallow sense of faith or am I the only one?

To sum it up: When life is great then I believe God created the universe and that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. When my life has been bad I thought that kind of stuff sounded a little shady, foolish and unrealistic.

In the Broadway Musical, Book of Mormon, they created a anti-thesis to the Book of Job with the song, "Hasa Diga Eebowai". The Hasa Diga Eebowai song insinuates that people living in horrible conditions are atheist or even anti-theist. This is declared as human nature. Do people really love God less when times are bad? Do they really love God more when times are good? Is it possibly the other way around? What do you guys say? Have you ever noticed a pattern in your personal life in this regard?

I certainly have.

Have you ever done an in depth bible study on the book of Job before?

 

[Anonymous1977]

Misery does not breed Christians. As for the sub-Saharan Africa - there is a saying - when Jesus is all you have you find out that Jesus is all you need. It's true. But I'd rather have Jesus in a mud hut than to live in a palace without Him. To know Jesus Christ and for Him to know you is the greatest blessing any person could ever have.

Hi Jeremiah ,

Could I ask, are you really female?...my computer might be being hacked and tampered with but your profile is showing on my computer as "female"...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Misery does not breed Christians. As for the sub-Saharan Africa - there is a saying - when Jesus is all you have you find out that Jesus is all you need. It's true. But I'd rather have Jesus in a mud hut than to live in a palace without Him. To know Jesus Christ and for Him to know you is the greatest blessing any person could ever have.

Hi Jeremiah ,

Could I ask, are you really female?...my computer might be being hacked and tampered with but your profile is showing on my computer as "female"...

Yes! I am a female! I have told the board that many times. Perhaps you missed it. I chose my writing name (screen name) after Jeremiah in the bible - the Book of Jeremiah - because he was a weeping servant of God who wept over the sins of the people. Although he warned them about false prophets and told them that judgement was coming the people did not believe him. I see that America is in a very similar place today. Those who hold fast to God's Word are not believed and those who preach about money all the time and tell the people whatever they want to hear? Are accepted.

 

[Anonymous1977]

Yes! I am a female! I have told the board that many times. Perhaps you missed it. I chose my writing name (screen name) after Jeremiah in the bible - the Book of Jeremiah - because he was a weeping servant of God who wept over the sins of the people. Although he warned them about false prophets and told them that judgement was coming the people did not believe him. I see that America is in a very similar place today. Those who hold fast to God's Word are not believed and those who preach about money all the time and tell the people whatever they want to hear? Are accepted.

Thank you, Ma'am.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Yes! I am a female! I have told the board that many times. Perhaps you missed it. I chose my writing name (screen name) after Jeremiah in the bible - the Book of Jeremiah - because he was a weeping servant of God who wept over the sins of the people. Although he warned them about false prophets and told them that judgement was coming the people did not believe him. I see that America is in a very similar place today. Those who hold fast to God's Word are not believed and those who preach about money all the time and tell the people whatever they want to hear? Are accepted.

Thank you, Ma'am.

I am thinking about changing my screen name. Because it is confusing to some people and I have to bring up my reason for choosing my s/n every so often. I'll let you know if I change it, Anonymous.

 

[presonorek]

Have you ever done an in depth bible study on the book of Job before?

No

 

[presonorek]

I believe that Christians who truly have their faith in Jesus Christ have the same determination Job demonstrated.

What do you say of the ones who are not as determined as Job and begin to question the existence of God during troubled times?

Were they fake Christians the whole time?

If so, what happens if that person's life turns around again and they stop questioning the existence of God. Were they real Christians the whole time after all?

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Human emotions can be very intense and confusing. A commitment to a spouse is more concrete and visible than a commitment to God.

I can think all sorts of bad things about my wife and still be committed to her. I assume that one can think all sorts of bad things about God and still be committed to Him.

What exactly is a commitment to God? I'm not sure it's so fair to define your commitment to God in terms of disallowing doubt or anger at God. Could joining another religion be an act of breaking your commitment to God? Breaking away from prayer or breaking away from reading the Bible can't be breaking your commitment from God because you can always resume those duties at any time.

What does it look like when we break our commitment to God?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I believe that Christians who truly have their faith in Jesus Christ have the same determination Job demonstrated.

What do you say of the ones who are not as determined as Job and begin to question the existence of God during troubled times?

Were they fake Christians the whole time?

If so, what happens if that person's life turns around again and they stop questioning the existence of God. Were they real Christians the whole time after all?

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Human emotions can be very intense and confusing. A commitment to a spouse is more concrete and visible than a commitment to God.

I can think all sorts of bad things about my wife and still be committed to her. I assume that one can think all sorts of bad things about God and still be committed to Him.

What exactly is a commitment to God? I'm not sure it's so fair to define your commitment to God in terms of disallowing doubt or anger at God. Could joining another religion be an act of breaking your commitment to God? Breaking away from prayer or breaking away from reading the Bible can't be breaking your commitment from God because you can always resume those duties at any time.

What does it look like when we break our commitment to God?

I believe Matthew 13 sums it up. I will post it for you but first, only God knows the heart of a person, V. God knows our heart. What if a person backslides? He can be freely forgiven and return to the Lord. Jesus Christ will forgive us. If we come to Him in repentance and ask to be forgiven and restored back to Him? He will do it. What does it look like when we break our commitment to God? Our fellowship with Him is broken. As I said, we can be restored to the LORD, God will forgive the backslider. He loves us. God is not looking for ways to cast us into hell. His desire is to keep us out of there! God loves us.

Here are the Scriptures which answer your question, V.

Matthew Chapter 13

1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.

52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.

54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

King James Version (KJV)
by Public Domain

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Have you ever done an in depth bible study on the book of Job before?

No

God willing I am going to do a thread called the Book of Job tomorrow (God Willing!) which will break down each chapter of Job and we can examine his life. It's a great story!

 

[Anonymous1977]

I am thinking about changing my screen name. Because it is confusing to some people and I have to bring up my reason for choosing my s/n every so often. I'll let you know if I change it, Anonymous.

You could call yourself, "Female 'Yah Exalts,'" "Yah Exalts" being the meaning of Jeremiah according to Wikipedia's page for him:

Jeremiah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I am thinking about changing my screen name. Because it is confusing to some people and I have to bring up my reason for choosing my s/n every so often. I'll let you know if I change it, Anonymous.

You could call yourself, "Female 'Yah Exalts,'" "Yah Exalts" being the meaning of Jeremiah according to Wikipedia's page for him:

Jeremiah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that is very interesting! I will have to look at that! Thanks, Anonymous!

 

[presonorek]

God willing I am going to do a thread called the Book of Job tomorrow (God Willing!) which will break down each chapter of Job and we can examine his life. It's a great story!

The Book of Job is cited by many intellectuals as one of the greatest works of literature. There is no doubt in my mind that exhibiting the character traits of Job are to be greatly beneficial to those who mimic Job's judgement and loyalty.

I'm just suggesting that most humans don't respond to adversity in the same manner as Job.

Most facing trouble times say, "Hasa Diga Eebowai".

 

[onefour1]

Doctrine and Covenants 45:32
32 But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.