BDS and "The Color Purple."

[patrickcaturday]

Hoss don't you think it is racist for you to say that one group of blacks should take care of another group of blacks just because of the color of their skins. I don't know but it sure sounds racist to me. Also you were the one who a while back was saying that when Americans give they do so without regard to race religion or ethnicity, so you are not only racist but hypocritical also. As for the BDS movement I intend with my meger resources to support it to the fullest !!!

Wouldn't want you to waste your meager resources, Patrick, in a futile cause. Israel is a rich country.

You are right Israel is a FUTILE CAUSE.

 

[RoccoR]

SherriMunnerlyn, et al,

Except for "intent."

The documentary Roadmap To Apartheid shows practices in South Africa and Palestine side by side and illustrates how similar Apartheid was in these two different places. The issue with BDS is the Apartheid it is a response to, not attacking Israel.

(COMMENT)

The intent of sequestering (seclude, remove, or separate) and quarantining (separate and restrict the movement of) the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) from Israel is to protect the the general non-combatant population, sovereignty and integrity of Israel. It doesn't have a racist component. The threat is the basis of the action.

Does anyone really believe that the Palestinian doesn't pose a legitimate and unnecessary threat?

Yes, it is a nonviolent response to Occupation and Apartheid and human rights abuses, a tool for human beings of conscience in the global community all over the world to use when intl law seems incapable of unrighting an Injustice of a colossal magnitude in our world.

(COMMENT)

If you define "Apartheid as an "institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;" then we have to disagree.

Again, the separation is justified in the probable cause through the established pattern of historically documented past criminal behavior and the threat the HoAP represents, has demonstrated, and has articulated in numerous way.

The reason the International Community and Justice System has not taken steps is that they know, the hands of the HoAP is not clean. Even though the Israeli may be in technical violation of established norms, the fact of the matter is, the HoAP is a violent and potential threat, who also is in violation of establish norms.

And I find the reference to Black Propaganda in context with this discussion of BDD racist, as well. This is nothing to do with black propaganda.

(COMMENT)

I find it interesting that you don't challenge the truth of it, but merely that it sounds racist.

My apologies stand.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hossfly]

BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. What does Alice Walker stand for? To me, she is a human being who has devoted much of her life to speaking out against prejudice and racism. It makes perfect since that she has become a spokesperson for BDS. Sherri

Apparently there are others smart enough who can see right through this scheme. As an aside, I wonder if any of the medical and technological inventions were manufactured in the West Bank, if those behind this BDS scheme would actually turn these inventions down so as not to be hypocritical. I think it is apparent that those behind this scheme just close their eyes to all the murders which are occurring in the Middle East since the Jews are not involved.

Apartheid: More Than Just a Word | HonestReporting

 

[Hossfly]

People, use your minds. BDS was a response to Apartheid in South Africa. What is Apartheid? It is a system based on prejudice and racism. Israeli Apartheid is likewise a system based on prejudice and racism. BDS opposes Israeli Apartheid and prejudice and racism. It logically follows that supporting BDS is opposing racism and opposing BDS is supporting racism.

Yes, people use your minds and realize that those who actually experienced apartheid in South Africa and saw what is going on in Israel claim there is no apartheid there. Meanwhile, those who are pushing this BDS movement completely close their eyes to the lack of religious freedoms in Muslim countries where people are harassed and murdered for their beliefs and their houses of worship destroyed. I imagine since the Jews are not involved in this, it isn't important to worry what is happening to these innocent people, and it certainly isn't worth the time by these pushers of the BDS movement to go on different forums to condemn what is happening.. By the way, none of us congratulated the new Miss Israel, an Ethiopian. Can anyone see South Africa ever crowning a Black woman in the past?

I don't believe the Arabs are a race so the term "racism" is a misnomer. However, it does look like the Arabs themselves are certainly racists.

Racism in the Arab world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hossfly]

BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. What does Alice Walker stand for? To me, she is a human being who has devoted much of her life to speaking out against prejudice and racism. It makes perfect since that she has become a spokesperson for BDS. Sherri

Well you are entitled to your opinion, Frau Sherri. There are many decent people who are opposed to what your fascist friends are doing in the name of religion. Civilized people do not like to see innocent people murdered because of their religious beliefs and would like to see people have the freedom of practicing their religious beliefs in peace. It's a shame that you and the rests of those pushing this boycott movement can't start something to show how your friends treat those of different religions.

 

[Kondor3]

BDS?

 

[sealadaigh]

People, use your minds. BDS was a response to Apartheid in South Africa. What is Apartheid? It is a system based on prejudice and racism. Israeli Apartheid is likewise a system based on prejudice and racism. BDS opposes Israeli Apartheid and prejudice and racism. It logically follows that supporting BDS is opposing racism and opposing BDS is supporting racism.

Yes, people use your minds and realize that those who actually experienced apartheid in South Africa and saw what is going on in Israel claim there is no apartheid there. Meanwhile, those who are pushing this BDS movement completely close their eyes to the lack of religious freedoms in Muslim countries where people are harassed and murdered for their beliefs and their houses of worship destroyed. I imagine since the Jews are not involved in this, it isn't important to worry what is happening to these innocent people, and it certainly isn't worth the time by these pushers of the BDS movement to go on different forums to condemn what is happening.. By the way, none of us congratulated the new Miss Israel, an Ethiopian. Can anyone see South Africa ever crowning a Black woman in the past?

I don't believe the Arabs are a race so the term "racism" is a misnomer. However, it does look like the Arabs themselves are certainly racists.

Racism in the Arab world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

both nelson mandela and desmond tutu, both south african nobel peace prize winners, have remarked on israeli being an apartheid state, as has mairead macGuire, another nobel peace prize winner, who has expericed apartheid like conditions growing up is the six northeastern counties of ireland.

apartheid is an ill defined word.

i think i will go with them.

 

[toastman]

patrick, I have to questions for you:
Define Racism
and
Where is there any racism in Hossly's post . I asked the same questions to Georgie Boy and Seal but they ran away like usual

In this case I would define racism as assuming that only one race should take care of another race because they are the same race. Say there was a charity drive where only whites were urged to contribute soley because all of the proceeds were going to whites. Another facet of this racism is when a person of a different race urges the people of the first race to contribute without lifting a finger himself.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Is there a website or article or something on the internet that shares the same definition as you or at least a similar one ??

 

[sealadaigh]

In this case I would define racism as assuming that only one race should take care of another race because they are the same race. Say there was a charity drive where only whites were urged to contribute soley because all of the proceeds were going to whites. Another facet of this racism is when a person of a different race urges the people of the first race to contribute without lifting a finger himself.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Is there a website or article or something on the internet that shares the same definition as you or at least a similar one ??

it is an example of the definition. you can look at what hoss said different ways, at least in the contect of a racist statement.

blacks should help their black brethern.

whites should hire their white brethern.

all the brothers stick together.

etc...

what hoss said was racist and particularly given the letter written by alice walker.

 

[Sunshine]

Alice Walker has bitten off more than she can chew.

 

[MHunterB]

SherriMunnerlyn, et al,

I don't see it this way at all.

BDS is an AntiRacist Movement. As far as I am concerned, all who oppose it are racists. Sherri

(COMMENT)

The Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement is a campaign against Israel --- a non-violent means of protest that opposes perceived violations international law and Palestinian rights. It is a countermeasure to the security quarantine.

It has nothing to do with racism. The use of the "Race Card" (the world has seen many time before) is a secondary effort to instigate public dissent and chaos. The use of the "Race Card" is an organized effort that wants to portray or incite the idea that Israel discriminates against Hostile Arab/Palestinians (HoAP) on the basis of ethnic or genetic inferiority; and suggesting it is not because the HoAP have a history of establish criminal behaviors or a background of past practices that create a security threat to the safety and integrity of Israel. It attempt to demonize the Israel.

Unfortunately, the use of the BDS Campaign to camouflage and spread Black Propaganda by means of the "Race Card", also has a negative effect on the BDS Campaign.

Essentially, there is nothing wrong with the original concept behind the BDS Campaign; very typical of a free political process using the non-violent tools at hand. But there will always be those elements that will attempt to high-jack the salient points the BDS Campaign has to make and replace them with material for the purpose of instigating and inciting trouble.

There is no effort (relative to the security quarantine) on the part of the Israeli to suggest that the HoAP is ethnically or genetically inferior. The "quarantine" minimizes the HoAP organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against Israel or its citizens; threatening the sovereign integrity of the nation. The BDS Movement take the opposite view and opposes this self-defense effort.

Most Respectfully,
R

This remains the single most worthwhile and accurate post on this thread.

As usual, Rocco nails it What he's stated is that BDS is using scurrilous negative techniques to continue to vilify and demonize ALL Israeli society and ANY Israeli supporters.

This can be seen most clearly in the post Rocco responded to above, which bluntly insists that whoever doesn't agree with the poster's view is a racist. That kind of rhetorical grandstanding is useless and worthless: is any adult going to be influenced by the condemnation of some single individual on a chat board? And what kind of person would be so arrogant as to imagine their condemnation could mean something to others?

Further, it's basically an 'emotional' argument. Not only do emotions have no truth value (look it up) - but emotion is far from the best tool we humans have for problem-solving.

Regardless of who one 'likes' on here : there WAS some merit to suggesting to Georgie that he go out into the community and actually DO something to alleviate the suffering he professes to be so distressed by.

Emotion can be a powerful motivator - but unless people go out and DO something as a result, it's just as dead as 'faith without works'. And the 'doing' is best if it's a positive. Me, I 'do' Hadassah : )) But perhaps others would prefer 'Heifer International' or some other positive project.

 

[Coyote]

Closed for Moderator Review

 

[Coyote]

This thread has once again been cleaned - stick to the topic.

If you have drama with other posters take it to the Flame Zone.

As a reminder: the topic is not the personal attributes or perceived beliefs of other members here.

 

[Hossfly]

People, use your minds. BDS was a response to Apartheid in South Africa. What is Apartheid? It is a system based on prejudice and racism. Israeli Apartheid is likewise a system based on prejudice and racism. BDS opposes Israeli Apartheid and prejudice and racism. It logically follows that supporting BDS is opposing racism and opposing BDS is supporting racism.

Yes, people use your minds and realize that those who actually experienced apartheid in South Africa and saw what is going on in Israel claim there is no apartheid there. Meanwhile, those who are pushing this BDS movement completely close their eyes to the lack of religious freedoms in Muslim countries where people are harassed and murdered for their beliefs and their houses of worship destroyed. I imagine since the Jews are not involved in this, it isn't important to worry what is happening to these innocent people, and it certainly isn't worth the time by these pushers of the BDS movement to go on different forums to condemn what is happening.. By the way, none of us congratulated the new Miss Israel, an Ethiopian. Can anyone see South Africa ever crowning a Black woman in the past?

I don't believe the Arabs are a race so the term "racism" is a misnomer. However, it does look like the Arabs themselves are certainly racists.

Racism in the Arab world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

both nelson mandela and desmond tutu, both south african nobel peace prize winners, have remarked on israeli being an apartheid state, as has mairead macGuire, another nobel peace prize winner, who has expericed apartheid like conditions growing up is the six northeastern counties of ireland.

apartheid is an ill defined word.

i think i will go with them.

Of course you can go with whomever you want to when it comes to this subject of apartheid. Naturally, you will have no problem with others going along with people whose views differ from Tutu, etc. I'll go with the Rev. Heddings who as a young Methodist pastor in South Africa fought apartheid and now by actually living in Israel says there is no apartheid and who has said he would confront Tutu over this if they were face to face. I also will go with this man who was a member in the South African parliament. By the way, Seal, no comment from you about racism in the Arab world. I would think that Mandela and Tutu would concern themselves with this. Have you any information as to when and whether they have ever spoken about this? It would certainly seem strange to many people that they only concern themselves with Israel.

MUST SEE!!! South African Member of Parliament on Israeli Apartheid Charge | Israel Video Network

 

[georgephillip]

"May 15, 2013 marks the 65th anniversary of the Palestinian Nakba, which resulted in the catastrophic expulsion of the over 750,000 Palestinians from their homes and land in 1948, and creation of the first batch of Palestinian Refugees.

"Some three-quarters of the Palestinian Arab population or over 750,000 Palestinians were expelled by military assault or threat and over 400 Palestinian cities and towns were destroyed.

"The YWCA was one of the first NGOs (nongovernment organizations) to provide services for Palestinian refugees. Before UNRWA was established, the YWCA responded to the emergency needs of the population, and later created women’s training centers and pre-schools in what is now the Aqabet Jaber Refugee Camp Center near Jericho.

"In 1951 the YWCA of Jordan was formed with branches and centers in the refugee camps on both the East and West Bank of the River Jordan."

Past Due: Sixty Five Years and the Ongoing Nakba | BDSmovement.net

Isn't it interesting how many organizations committed to easing the day to day suffering of the victims of Israel's illegal occupation in Palestine support BDS?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The intent of sequestering (seclude, remove, or separate) and quarantining (separate and restrict the movement of) the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) from Israel is to protect the the general non-combatant population, sovereignty and integrity of Israel.

Israel has to keep the Palestinians from returning to their homes because they are the wrong religion.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

We have to agree to disagree.

The intent of sequestering (seclude, remove, or separate) and quarantining (separate and restrict the movement of) the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) from Israel is to protect the the general non-combatant population, sovereignty and integrity of Israel.

Israel has to keep the Palestinians from returning to their homes because they are the wrong religion.

(COMMENT)

While there is many an argument that can be made concerning the relative merits of the Muslim's Islamic following, and the impact it has had on humanity, and has today ... that is certainly no the reason or basis of the sequestering or quarantine.

The fact of the matter is that the Palestine has pledged to dismantle the Jewish State. The Palestinian not only make the pledge (establishing intent), but have taken actions to further that intent (terrorist attacks, hijackings, rocket launchings, assaults on the unarmed, etc) and have installed a government which has the continuation of the effort to destroy Israel embedded in its doctrine (Hamas Charter).

The use of the "race card" in the propaganda effort is only the latest effort to further stretch the "Apartheid" mantra to deflect the light off the fact that Palestinians celebrate martyrdom, teach the ethics of the suicide bomber to their children, and encourage the use of force to settle disputes. They are the poster board example of the corrupt culture that is Palestinian dream.

The Palestinian represents a danger to regional peace and extends the face of a failed culture that has not contributed a single step towards any human development.

No, it is not at all about race, or religion. The separation is based on the danger they represent.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

We have to agree to disagree.

The intent of sequestering (seclude, remove, or separate) and quarantining (separate and restrict the movement of) the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) from Israel is to protect the the general non-combatant population, sovereignty and integrity of Israel.

Israel has to keep the Palestinians from returning to their homes because they are the wrong religion.

(COMMENT)

While there is many an argument that can be made concerning the relative merits of the Muslim's Islamic following, and the impact it has had on humanity, and has today ... that is certainly no the reason or basis of the sequestering or quarantine.

The fact of the matter is that the Palestine has pledged to dismantle the Jewish State. The Palestinian not only make the pledge (establishing intent), but have taken actions to further that intent (terrorist attacks, hijackings, rocket launchings, assaults on the unarmed, etc) and have installed a government which has the continuation of the effort to destroy Israel embedded in its doctrine (Hamas Charter).

The use of the "race card" in the propaganda effort is only the latest effort to further stretch the "Apartheid" mantra to deflect the light off the fact that Palestinians celebrate martyrdom, teach the ethics of the suicide bomber to their children, and encourage the use of force to settle disputes. They are the poster board example of the corrupt culture that is Palestinian dream.

The Palestinian represents a danger to regional peace and extends the face of a failed culture that has not contributed a single step towards any human development.

No, it is not at all about race, or religion. The separation is based on the danger they represent.

Most Respectfully,
R

While there is many an argument that can be made concerning the relative merits of the Muslim's Islamic following,...

Baloney, Israel treats Muslims and Christians equally because they are equally not Jews.

The Palestinian represents a danger to regional peace ...

Baloney, Palestine poses no threat to any of its neighbors.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

P F Tinmore, et al,

We have to agree to disagree.

The intent of sequestering (seclude, remove, or separate) and quarantining (separate and restrict the movement of) the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) from Israel is to protect the the general non-combatant population, sovereignty and integrity of Israel.

Israel has to keep the Palestinians from returning to their homes because they are the wrong religion.

(COMMENT)

While there is many an argument that can be made concerning the relative merits of the Muslim's Islamic following, and the impact it has had on humanity, and has today ... that is certainly no the reason or basis of the sequestering or quarantine.

The fact of the matter is that the Palestine has pledged to dismantle the Jewish State. The Palestinian not only make the pledge (establishing intent), but have taken actions to further that intent (terrorist attacks, hijackings, rocket launchings, assaults on the unarmed, etc) and have installed a government which has the continuation of the effort to destroy Israel embedded in its doctrine (Hamas Charter).

The use of the "race card" in the propaganda effort is only the latest effort to further stretch the "Apartheid" mantra to deflect the light off the fact that Palestinians celebrate martyrdom, teach the ethics of the suicide bomber to their children, and encourage the use of force to settle disputes. They are the poster board example of the corrupt culture that is Palestinian dream.

The Palestinian represents a danger to regional peace and extends the face of a failed culture that has not contributed a single step towards any human development.

No, it is not at all about race, or religion. The separation is based on the danger they represent.

Most Respectfully,
R

Prejudice and racism of the chosen people has become very lethal/deadly and harmful to Palestine, to the land and its peoples, and is certainly a very ugly thing. Walls that divide are an illustration and classic symbol of it. Nothing pretty or grand or redeeming in and about any of it. I see primarily Desperation in all these attempts to justify the unlawful Separation Wall and Apartheid and Occupation. I expect the Nazis engaged in the very same such thinking when they tried to preserve their own perceived people and race and built up the very same racist walls to imprison and divide and tried to justify their actions to themselves and the world. And it is not just a phenomenon for Europe or the Middle East, this ugly racism and prejudice behind such atrocities as Apartheid and Separation of the races. We all can look at our own History of Slavery and Segregation. And we see how nonviolence was used effectively in The Civil Rights Movement. So, BDS is a proven and effective and moral method to respond to Historical atrocities like Apartheid and Occupation in Palestine. Sherri

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"UPDATED: A couple dozen fervent pro-Israel activists gathered outside the 92nd Street Y on Thursday night to protest an appearance there by the Pulitzer Prize-winning author Alice Walker. Some of the demonstrators labelled her an “anti-Semite," lamenting that she'd been invited to a vaunted Jewish institution on Manhattan's Upper East Side.Jewish institutions like the 92nd Street Y are increasingly coming under harsh pressure—and, sometimes, being protested—for inviting forceful critics of Israel to speak. Walker, best known for her novel*The Color Purple*and afrequent*guest*of the 92nd Street Y, considers Israel's occupation of Palestinians "apartheid," and advocates for a near total boycott of the Jewish State. In an*open letter this week, Walker invited the R&B singer Alicia Keys to join the cultural boycott of Israel and cancel an upcoming Tel Aviv concert. Last year, Walker*declined to have her book translated into Hebrew by an Israeli publisher, citing her work with the*Russell Tribunal on Palestine.Both the apartheid charge and supporting tBoth the apartheid charge and supporting the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel virtually guarantee*denunciation by the right-wing pro-Israel community as anti-Semitic. In*Commentary, Jonathan Tobin*suggested that perhaps even the 92nd Street Y was anti-Semitic*for hosting a BDS-backer. "While some rightly label those who advocate discrimination against Israel and its people as anti-Semitism, many refuse to draw the logical conclusion about those who back the BDS (boycott, divest and sanctions against Israel) movement and continue to welcome them into the community and even honor them," he wrote. "The question is, how is it possible that a venerable Jewish institution like the 92nd Street Y would choose to welcome someone who advocates bias against Jews?'" BDS-Backer Alice Walker Protested At Jewish Institution - The Daily Beast. BDS is dividing the Jewish community in the US.. Wow, here we see venerable American Jewish groups called Anti Semitic.