Battlecry: Christian kids have lost it

[liberalogic]

Fear and Loathing at Philadelphia's BattleCry


It began with fireworks so loud and startling I screamed. Lights and smoke followed, and a few kids were pulled up on stage from the crowd. One was asked to read a letter.

This was the letter that opened the event. Its author was George W. Bush. Yes, the president of the United States sent a letter of support, greeting, prayer and encouragement to the BattleCry event held at Wachovia Spectrum Stadium in Philadelphia on May 12. Immediately afterward, a preacher took the microphone and led the crowd in prayer. Among other things, he asked the attendees to “Thank God for giving us George Bush.”

On his cue, about 17,000 youths from upward of 2,000 churches across America and Canada directed their thanks heavenward in unison.

Throughout the three and a half hours of BattleCry’s first session, I thought of only one analogy that fit the experience: This must have been what it felt like to watch the Hitler Youth, filled with self-righteous pride, proclaim the supremacy of their beliefs and their willingness to shed blood for them.


A man of imposing size sat down next to me and my friends and asked us if we were planning any disturbances.

And lest you think this is idle paranoia, BattleCry founder Ron Luce told the crowds the next morning (May 13) that he plans to launch a “blitzkrieg” in the communities, schools, malls, etc. against those who don’t share his theocratic vision of society.

Blitzkrieg.

Nothing like a little Nazi imagery to whip up the masses. *(see editor’s note at bottom)

But back to the first rally, on May 12. Shortly after we sat down, Tom, a man of imposing size who appeared to be a BattleCry security staffer, sat down next to me and my friends and asked us if we were planning any disturbances. I don’t know how BattleCry & Co. knew I was here; they apparently had recognized me from my appearance on “The O’Reilly Factor” (video link) in March. I told Tom that we weren’t planning any disturbances and that, no, I wouldn’t like to meet with BattleCry founder Ron Luce after the rally, nor did I want to give him my phone number. Seemingly satisfied, he ambled off. But later on, as I rose to go to the bathroom, I caught sight of another BattleCry security-type following me. It was very unsettling, to say the least.

(While in the bathroom, I saw something equally unsettling--a preteen girl wearing a shirt being sported by many attendees that night: Jesus on the cross, robes waving, and emblazoned across the front the words “Dressed to Kill.”)

After my bathroom break, Tom, my helpful minder, was replaced by an eerily cheerful young woman who was also obviously one of the BattleCry personnel. She claimed to be simply making sure that my friends and I were happy. She would stop by several times over the course of the concert. I wonder if all attendees got that kind of VIP treatment.

But on to the show.

The first rock band that performed, Delirious, got the crowd festive and up on their feet with lyrics that were projected on large screens so that everyone could join in: “We’re an army of God and we’re ready to die.... Let’s paint this big ol’ town red.... We see nothing but the blood of Jesus....”

Between musical acts, Luce, the BattleCry founder, hammered away at the dominant theme of the night: his contention that “pew-sitters ... passive Christians ... the Christians who just want love, joy, peace ... ” were the problem, and that the world needed more radical and extreme God-worshippers—those who would be obedient and fully submit to Christ.

Luce would have us believe that everything went off track when the Bible-toting people of my grandparents’ generation were replaced by the “pew-sitters” of the Baby Boom generation. These are the people who, according to Luce, just wanted to passively benefit from the “love, joy and peace” message of Christianity without actively surrendering their wills and their selves completely upon Christ’s altar and working in His name.

Yeah, if only people would stop practicing “love, joy and peace.” Wouldn’t that make the world a better place....

Luce used this critique of pew-sitting Christians to assuage the doubts of the youths at the rally who may have been feeling uncertain about their commitment to the Church. “Don’t worry,” he was telling them, “you’ve been amongst pew-sitters--watered-down Christians. Welcome to the reign of total submission to the Lord.”

It was a mantra Luce repeated all through the night: the need to submit one’s self fully to Jesus, to belong completely to Him.

“He doesn’t just want to be in your heart, He wants to own your heart.... There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life.... You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.”

Throughout this section, a loud crowd from the back of the stadium would periodically erupt, “We are warriors!”

Some of the youths said it was OK that Bush’s lies have killed thousands--because God put Bush in power.

After tugging at countless emotional strings, Luce insisted—with the humility of Taliban members who submit to Allah’s command to stone adulterers—“You are the one talking to God, I am just going to help you with the words.”

There was a session when, after a great crescendo, the stadium was brought to silence. Luce instructed individuals to stand up when they felt the spirit and cry out, “I want the cross!” The voices of hundreds rose up over the course of 10 minutes. These young people, declaring death unto themselves and rebirth in Christ, were called down to the floor of the stadium and directed to get on their knees and put their heads down and pray some more.

Luce put great emphasis on following every word in the Bible, treating it as an “instruction book,” even when a person doesn’t understand or agree. This is, of course, the logic that leads to the stoning of gays, non-virgin brides, disobedient children and much more—because the Bible says so.

Chillingly, when I confronted Ron explicitly about these passages, he refused to disavow them. During the afternoon preceding the May 12 rally, Luce and about 300 BattleCry acolytes (almost entirely youths) rallied in front of Philadelphia’s Constitution Hall—the location having been chosen because Luce wants to “restore” the Founding Fathers’ vision of a religious society (never mind that the Founders enshrined in the Constitution an explicitly secular framework of government).

I and about 20 people representing various anti-Bush, atheistic and anti-Iraq-war factions made our way into the rally and began interacting with the youths assembled. Some said openly that it was OK that George Bush’s lies have cost the lives of thousands of Americans and Iraqis. Why was it OK? Because “God put him [Bush] there.”

We then decided to ask them a little about this God, and his “instruction book,” as Luce calls it. Specifically, we asked them if they supported the parts of Deuteronomy and Leviticus that spell out, for example, death sentences for women who dared to enter the city while menstruating. The most memorable response came from Luce himself. (We were standing face to face in the plaza—he had recognized me from my O’Reilly appearance.)

“This is your Bible,” I told him. “You have to defend this.”

He smiled, smugly, and almost looked taken aback that I would challenge him like this.

“You can’t defend this,” I continued.

A biblical literalist, Luce couldn’t disavow something in his “instruction book,” but neither did he want to appear (I imagine) to condone Iron Age barbarity. So he stayed quiet, until, after I prodded him further, he changed the subject.

“Why are you so angry?” he asked.

My point made, I walked away.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060513_battlecry_philadelphia/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

After watching a brief documentary on this organization, I decided to do a little research. The above was just one of the articles that I found.

When I saw the teenagers who participate in these rallies on tv, many of them looked like the gothic kids who destroyed Columbine. In other words, they were outcasts who were now purified by the message of Christ. As someone of their age, it hurt me to watch them "submit" themselves. Why would they do this? They are looking for structure and acceptance, a codified set of behaviors that determines their worth. It's easier to be accepted by God for following the Bible, than to be accepted by your peers for who you are. There is no formula to being popular; yet there is a formula to heaven. They've sought the latter because they can't discover the first. Ron Luce is a predator-- he is capitalizing on feelings of loss, anguish, and unworthiness to promote a POLITICAL agenda. The group has petitioned state legislators to restore Christian values. They haven't submitted themselves to Jesus, they've submitted themselves to Ron Luce.

On top of this, the shows that they have contain spectacular lighting effects, fireworks, and everything else that a loud rock show would have. What is the need this? Last I checked, Jesus wore a robe and sandals. Do they really need these effects to praise him? Couldn't those thousands upon thousands of dollars have gone to charity instead of frivolous appeal. The purity of Christ's message should be good enough to stand on its own. Instead, Luce is riling them up for, as he calls it, "a religious war," or as I call it-- jihad.

And I seem to remember God giving us Clinton as well. Their explanation for Bush's presidency is insane...that's what they used to call the "divine right of kings." They caused a lot of bloodshed as well.

 

[acludem]

Wow this is scary. But it's always fun to challenge those who say "I believe the bible should be followed literally". Ask them if they believe in capital punishment for disobedient children, that's in the bible. This Ron Luce is like anyother demagogue, regardless of his religion, this is a personality cult pure and simple.

acludem

 

[Annie]

Fear and Loathing at Philadelphia's BattleCry


It began with fireworks so loud and startling I screamed. Lights and smoke followed, and a few kids were pulled up on stage from the crowd. One was asked to read a letter.

This was the letter that opened the event. Its author was George W. Bush. Yes, the president of the United States sent a letter of support, greeting, prayer and encouragement to the BattleCry event held at Wachovia Spectrum Stadium in Philadelphia on May 12. Immediately afterward, a preacher took the microphone and led the crowd in prayer. Among other things, he asked the attendees to “Thank God for giving us George Bush.”

On his cue, about 17,000 youths from upward of 2,000 churches across America and Canada directed their thanks heavenward in unison.

Throughout the three and a half hours of BattleCry’s first session, I thought of only one analogy that fit the experience: This must have been what it felt like to watch the Hitler Youth, filled with self-righteous pride, proclaim the supremacy of their beliefs and their willingness to shed blood for them.


A man of imposing size sat down next to me and my friends and asked us if we were planning any disturbances.

And lest you think this is idle paranoia, BattleCry founder Ron Luce told the crowds the next morning (May 13) that he plans to launch a “blitzkrieg” in the communities, schools, malls, etc. against those who don’t share his theocratic vision of society.

Blitzkrieg.

Nothing like a little Nazi imagery to whip up the masses. *(see editor’s note at bottom)

...

Ok, the author, who you omitted, is an interesting character:

http://www.google.com/search?q=suns...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

 

[Nienna]

Between musical acts, Luce, the BattleCry founder, hammered away at the dominant theme of the night: his contention that “pew-sitters ... passive Christians ... the Christians who just want love, joy, peace ... ” were the problem, and that the world needed more radical and extreme God-worshippers—those who would be obedient and fully submit to Christ...

Luce would have us believe that everything went off track when the Bible-toting people of my grandparents’ generation were replaced by the “pew-sitters” of the Baby Boom generation. These are the people who, according to Luce, just wanted to passively benefit from the “love, joy and peace” message of Christianity without actively surrendering their wills and their selves completely upon Christ’s altar and working in His name...

It was a mantra Luce repeated all through the night: the need to submit one’s self fully to Jesus, to belong completely to Him...

“He doesn’t just want to be in your heart, He wants to own your heart.... There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life.... You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.”

I don't see much wrong with these ideas.

 

[Redhots]

Mixing militarism and religion tends to have very bad results (for somebody). I think history will back me up on that.

 

[5stringJeff]

Now I won't defend using the pulpit to advance politics on either side of the aisle. And I don't know much about Ron Luce. However, I see nothing wrong with this quote: “He doesn’t just want to be in your heart, He wants to own your heart.... There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life."
I do see a little bit wrong with this: "You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.” I believe that as Christians, we are called to discover more and more about Christ as we mature in our faith. No, we don't have to know all the answers in order to believe, but it seems as though Luce is saying that Christians don't need to grow in knowledge. Then again, I'm only getting a partial quote.
To LL: I will say that many youth rallies are designed to excite people about the opportunities to serve Christ and the church, much like a pep rally is designed to get people excited about a football game. So yes, it's not money spent on the poor, it's money spent on getting Christian youth excited about doing good things, which could result in even more good being done than buying clothes/food for the poor.

 

[manu1959]

Mixing militarism and religion tends to have very bad results (for somebody). I think history will back me up on that.

i think you libs call them freedom fighters

 

[Redhots]

I don't see much wrong with these ideas.

Really?

Because this bit, which was also in your quote, I found a little disturbing.

“He doesn’t just want to be in your heart, He wants to own your heart.... There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life.... You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.”

Do you know of any biblical pretext for that because I know of some that says the opposite.

 

[Redhots]

i think you libs call them freedom fighters

 

[5stringJeff]

There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life.... You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.”

Do you know of any biblical pretext for that because I know of some that says the opposite.

I've already addressed the second phrase that you objected to. As to the first phrase, God is the owner of your life. The Bible is clear that God has never relinquished ownership of any of His creation. In fact, life itself flows from God, and is a gift from God.

 

[Redhots]

I do see a little bit wrong with this: "You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.” I believe that as Christians, we are called to discover more and more about Christ as we mature in our faith. No, we don't have to know all the answers in order to believe, but it seems as though Luce is saying that Christians don't need to grow in knowledge. Then again, I'm only getting a partial quote.

Yep.

I don't remember chapter and verse, but there is the comparison between the cow and the pig and how you should study the bible.

The cow chews the cud, swallows it, then spits it back out and then starts chewing it again. The pig happily eats whatever slop you throw in its trough.

As to the first phrase, God is the owner of your life. The Bible is clear that God has never relinquished ownership of any of His creation.

Yeah, I left that first sentence unbolded because I wanted to draw a distinction between them, but still keep it in context.

This one though:

There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life....

So loving god/christ isn't a good reason? Or even a generalized "its the right thing to do" doesn't cut it? Its because he owns you?

 

[Nienna]

Really?

Because this bit, which was also in your quote, I found a little disturbing.



Do you know of any biblical pretext for that because I know of some that says the opposite.

I took that to mean that one doesn't have to know much about Jesus in order to BECOME a believer... but once a believer, one should always continue to grow and become closer in one's relationship to Jesus.

 

[Nienna]

So loving god/christ isn't a good reason? Or even a generalized "its the right thing to do" doesn't cut it? Its because he owns you?

Those who love Him OBEY Him. He always gives you a choice. You can choose not to obey (sin) at any point. But, generally speaking, a Christian should give over more and more control to God /obey more and more as he grows.

 

[5stringJeff]

This one though:


So loving god/christ isn't a good reason? Or even a generalized "its the right thing to do" doesn't cut it? Its because he owns you?

Of course, we should love God, and we should act out of love. But the loving relationship doesn't negate the fact that God created us, just like the love that we have for our parents and/or children doesn't negate the parent-child relationship.

 

[Redhots]

@mom4 & 5stringJeff

But that isn't what he said though. Its not how he framed it.

It moves away from the idea that god wants you to come to him willingly and really blurrs it with the focus on the idea of ownership, infact he went as far as to say its the only reason.

Which if thats something you want to come to personaly in your own life, thats fine I suppose, but when you have the figurehead of a mass movement espousing those beliefs it takes on a much more manipulitive tone IMO.

 

[liberalogic]

Now I won't defend using the pulpit to advance politics on either side of the aisle. And I don't know much about Ron Luce. However, I see nothing wrong with this quote: “He doesn’t just want to be in your heart, He wants to own your heart.... There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life."
I do see a little bit wrong with this: "You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.” I believe that as Christians, we are called to discover more and more about Christ as we mature in our faith. No, we don't have to know all the answers in order to believe, but it seems as though Luce is saying that Christians don't need to grow in knowledge. Then again, I'm only getting a partial quote.
To LL: I will say that many youth rallies are designed to excite people about the opportunities to serve Christ and the church, much like a pep rally is designed to get people excited about a football game. So yes, it's not money spent on the poor, it's money spent on getting Christian youth excited about doing good things, which could result in even more good being done than buying clothes/food for the poor.

Excellent points. To me, blind acceptance is detrimental. How can you believe if you don't know what you're believing? "You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life" is a very scary statement. And for kids who are lost, they will accept this without questioning it.

My problem with religion is not the set of beliefs, but the unwillingness of believers to have an open mind, to realize that the Bible is fallible. Ron Luce manipulates belief to form an unwavering, palpable truth. This gives kids a structured path; it gives them direction. To me, it's more selfish than admirable. They're working for themselves through Jesus instead of working for Jesus through themselves. Read Luce's rhetoric, you'll find that it's very similar to what a cult leader would say.

And as for the money spent on rallies, I see your point, but I still disagree. Pep rallies serve no true purpose in the context of the real world (I've been to enough of them). I fully admit, though, that Luce's use of fireworks and lights is a brilliant idea for his deplorable purposes. It's giving these kids the same excitement that all the others have at alcoholically-induced parties. He's channeling that aggression and rage into his own agenda. He's playing them into the palm of his hands. But again, TRUE believers shouldn't need to be wooed by these effects; the beauty of Christ's teachings should sustain itself.

Personally, I can hate and chastise the group as much as I please. But I don't have the right to stop it and I'm okay with that. But when they decide that they want to influence the public sector; when they decide that they want to change censorship standards and other laws that restrict others, then I have a real problem with them. If they really want to make a difference, they should go to the poorest neighborhoods of the country and distribute food and provide shelter. They should go to Africa and help those in need. But that's not their goal-- as I said before, it's jihad.

 

[Redhots]

And as for the money spent on rallies, I see your point, but I still disagree. Pep rallies serve no true purpose in the context of the real world (I've been to enough of them). I fully admit, though, that Luce's use of fireworks and lights is a brilliant idea for his deplorable purposes. It's giving these kids the same excitement that all the others have at alcoholically-induced parties. He's channeling that aggression and rage into his own agenda. He's playing them into the palm of his hands. But again, TRUE believers shouldn't need to be wooed by these effects; the beauty of Christ's teachings should sustain itself.

The thing that really bothers me though are images like these:

Laser lights and pyro effects are one thing, but I'm not sure what having men dressed in military fatigues bursting onto the stage with machine guns and muzzle flashes has to do with the teachings of christ.

Personally, I can hate and chastise the group as much as I please. But I don't have the right to stop it and I'm okay with that. But when they decide that they want to influence the public sector; when they decide that they want to change censorship standards and other laws that restrict others, then I have a real problem with them.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Fear and Loathing at Philadelphia's BattleCry


It began with fireworks so loud and startling I screamed. Lights and smoke followed, and a few kids were pulled up on stage from the crowd. One was asked to read a letter.

This was the letter that opened the event. Its author was George W. Bush. Yes, the president of the United States sent a letter of support, greeting, prayer and encouragement to the BattleCry event held at Wachovia Spectrum Stadium in Philadelphia on May 12. Immediately afterward, a preacher took the microphone and led the crowd in prayer. Among other things, he asked the attendees to “Thank God for giving us George Bush.”

On his cue, about 17,000 youths from upward of 2,000 churches across America and Canada directed their thanks heavenward in unison.

Throughout the three and a half hours of BattleCry’s first session, I thought of only one analogy that fit the experience: This must have been what it felt like to watch the Hitler Youth, filled with self-righteous pride, proclaim the supremacy of their beliefs and their willingness to shed blood for them.


A man of imposing size sat down next to me and my friends and asked us if we were planning any disturbances.

And lest you think this is idle paranoia, BattleCry founder Ron Luce told the crowds the next morning (May 13) that he plans to launch a “blitzkrieg” in the communities, schools, malls, etc. against those who don’t share his theocratic vision of society.

Blitzkrieg.

Nothing like a little Nazi imagery to whip up the masses. *(see editor’s note at bottom)

But back to the first rally, on May 12. Shortly after we sat down, Tom, a man of imposing size who appeared to be a BattleCry security staffer, sat down next to me and my friends and asked us if we were planning any disturbances. I don’t know how BattleCry & Co. knew I was here; they apparently had recognized me from my appearance on “The O’Reilly Factor” (video link) in March. I told Tom that we weren’t planning any disturbances and that, no, I wouldn’t like to meet with BattleCry founder Ron Luce after the rally, nor did I want to give him my phone number. Seemingly satisfied, he ambled off. But later on, as I rose to go to the bathroom, I caught sight of another BattleCry security-type following me. It was very unsettling, to say the least.

(While in the bathroom, I saw something equally unsettling--a preteen girl wearing a shirt being sported by many attendees that night: Jesus on the cross, robes waving, and emblazoned across the front the words “Dressed to Kill.”)

After my bathroom break, Tom, my helpful minder, was replaced by an eerily cheerful young woman who was also obviously one of the BattleCry personnel. She claimed to be simply making sure that my friends and I were happy. She would stop by several times over the course of the concert. I wonder if all attendees got that kind of VIP treatment.

But on to the show.

The first rock band that performed, Delirious, got the crowd festive and up on their feet with lyrics that were projected on large screens so that everyone could join in: “We’re an army of God and we’re ready to die.... Let’s paint this big ol’ town red.... We see nothing but the blood of Jesus....”

Between musical acts, Luce, the BattleCry founder, hammered away at the dominant theme of the night: his contention that “pew-sitters ... passive Christians ... the Christians who just want love, joy, peace ... ” were the problem, and that the world needed more radical and extreme God-worshippers—those who would be obedient and fully submit to Christ.

Luce would have us believe that everything went off track when the Bible-toting people of my grandparents’ generation were replaced by the “pew-sitters” of the Baby Boom generation. These are the people who, according to Luce, just wanted to passively benefit from the “love, joy and peace” message of Christianity without actively surrendering their wills and their selves completely upon Christ’s altar and working in His name.

Yeah, if only people would stop practicing “love, joy and peace.” Wouldn’t that make the world a better place....

Luce used this critique of pew-sitting Christians to assuage the doubts of the youths at the rally who may have been feeling uncertain about their commitment to the Church. “Don’t worry,” he was telling them, “you’ve been amongst pew-sitters--watered-down Christians. Welcome to the reign of total submission to the Lord.”

It was a mantra Luce repeated all through the night: the need to submit one’s self fully to Jesus, to belong completely to Him.

“He doesn’t just want to be in your heart, He wants to own your heart.... There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life.... You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.”

Throughout this section, a loud crowd from the back of the stadium would periodically erupt, “We are warriors!”

Some of the youths said it was OK that Bush’s lies have killed thousands--because God put Bush in power.

After tugging at countless emotional strings, Luce insisted—with the humility of Taliban members who submit to Allah’s command to stone adulterers—“You are the one talking to God, I am just going to help you with the words.”

There was a session when, after a great crescendo, the stadium was brought to silence. Luce instructed individuals to stand up when they felt the spirit and cry out, “I want the cross!” The voices of hundreds rose up over the course of 10 minutes. These young people, declaring death unto themselves and rebirth in Christ, were called down to the floor of the stadium and directed to get on their knees and put their heads down and pray some more.

Luce put great emphasis on following every word in the Bible, treating it as an “instruction book,” even when a person doesn’t understand or agree. This is, of course, the logic that leads to the stoning of gays, non-virgin brides, disobedient children and much more—because the Bible says so.

Chillingly, when I confronted Ron explicitly about these passages, he refused to disavow them. During the afternoon preceding the May 12 rally, Luce and about 300 BattleCry acolytes (almost entirely youths) rallied in front of Philadelphia’s Constitution Hall—the location having been chosen because Luce wants to “restore” the Founding Fathers’ vision of a religious society (never mind that the Founders enshrined in the Constitution an explicitly secular framework of government).

I and about 20 people representing various anti-Bush, atheistic and anti-Iraq-war factions made our way into the rally and began interacting with the youths assembled. Some said openly that it was OK that George Bush’s lies have cost the lives of thousands of Americans and Iraqis. Why was it OK? Because “God put him [Bush] there.”

We then decided to ask them a little about this God, and his “instruction book,” as Luce calls it. Specifically, we asked them if they supported the parts of Deuteronomy and Leviticus that spell out, for example, death sentences for women who dared to enter the city while menstruating. The most memorable response came from Luce himself. (We were standing face to face in the plaza—he had recognized me from my O’Reilly appearance.)

“This is your Bible,” I told him. “You have to defend this.”

He smiled, smugly, and almost looked taken aback that I would challenge him like this.

“You can’t defend this,” I continued.

A biblical literalist, Luce couldn’t disavow something in his “instruction book,” but neither did he want to appear (I imagine) to condone Iron Age barbarity. So he stayed quiet, until, after I prodded him further, he changed the subject.

“Why are you so angry?” he asked.

My point made, I walked away.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060513_battlecry_philadelphia/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

After watching a brief documentary on this organization, I decided to do a little research. The above was just one of the articles that I found.

When I saw the teenagers who participate in these rallies on tv, many of them looked like the gothic kids who destroyed Columbine. In other words, they were outcasts who were now purified by the message of Christ. As someone of their age, it hurt me to watch them "submit" themselves. Why would they do this? They are looking for structure and acceptance, a codified set of behaviors that determines their worth. It's easier to be accepted by God for following the Bible, than to be accepted by your peers for who you are. There is no formula to being popular; yet there is a formula to heaven. They've sought the latter because they can't discover the first. Ron Luce is a predator-- he is capitalizing on feelings of loss, anguish, and unworthiness to promote a POLITICAL agenda. The group has petitioned state legislators to restore Christian values. They haven't submitted themselves to Jesus, they've submitted themselves to Ron Luce.

On top of this, the shows that they have contain spectacular lighting effects, fireworks, and everything else that a loud rock show would have. What is the need this? Last I checked, Jesus wore a robe and sandals. Do they really need these effects to praise him? Couldn't those thousands upon thousands of dollars have gone to charity instead of frivolous appeal. The purity of Christ's message should be good enough to stand on its own. Instead, Luce is riling them up for, as he calls it, "a religious war," or as I call it-- jihad.

And I seem to remember God giving us Clinton as well. Their explanation for Bush's presidency is insane...that's what they used to call the "divine right of kings." They caused a lot of bloodshed as well.

Two words...Hitler Youth.

Indoctrination and regimentation...convention and conformity...fear and loathing, the techniques used by totalitarian regimes throughout history to bring the populace to heel.

 

[Nienna]

Like Jeff said, I don't know much about Ron Luce, and I do know that there ARE Christian cults. This may be one of them, I don't know.

But, as to Christians not influencing the public sector, why shouldn't they?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The god of christ is not a totalitarian. That's satan. He only wants you if you want him willingly. This luce dude is a human perversion. Theocracies of any kind are inspired by satan, as it is worldly power they seek.