Baseball HOF vote tmrw Jan 9

[ShootSpeeders]

Bonds and clemens had better make it. If not the greatest position player and pitcher of all time, they are certainly both in the top 5. I am not convinced they did use PEDS but if so it did not help their careers much anyway. They were sensational long before they bulked up.

The critics say "using PEDs is cheating" but baseball has always been a cheaters paradise. Ask HOFer gaylord perry.

 

[TruthSeeker56]

I agree. Bonds and Clemens should be first-ballot inductees, but I bet that NONE of them make it, including McGwire.

 

[Mad Scientist]

I hope the Druggies and Cheaters make it on the first ballot, because that's what Baseball is all about thesedays.

 

[rightwinger]

Piazza and Biggio will be elected

Cheaters will be left out

 

[GHook93]

2013 Official Hall of Fame Ballot - Baseball-Reference.com

Biggio (amazing stats period and unbelievable for 2B and a leadoff man) is the only foresure.
Schilling is foresure 216 wins, 3.46 ERA, 3K+ Ks and 1.137 WHIP, plus the heroics in the world series.
Piazza is close. Piazza (along with Bench) had the best power numbers of any catcher in history, .308 BA, 427 HR, 1335 RBI and wasn't a roid suspect, however, the D is what holds him back.

Roids Players:
Bonds - I think the best shot of all the roids players, but I think they make a statement
Clemens - Ditto
Sosa - Has some unbelievable years of what 160 RBIs+ the guy was a monster. Minus the roids suspicions he would be a 1st ballot, but the Big Mac miss foreshadowed Sosa.
Palmeiro - Sosa has better single season that Palmeiro (a ton better), but career stats, Palmeiro's are equivalent if not better than Sosa. But, like Big Mac, the voters have spoken on him!
Bagwell - See Palmeiro
Big Mac - already a no.

Old Timers Hold-Overs:
Jack Morris - I think he finally makes it.
Mattingly - Should make it and he will inch closer and miss.
Lee Smith - Should make it, but the voters hate closers. Very unjustifiably so.
Raines - Good player, but won't ever make the HOF.

My picks for who will make it: Biggio, Schilling, Piazza and Morris! The stub all the roid players and Mattingly again!

 

[GHook93]

Piazza and Biggio will be elected

Cheaters will be left out

No Schilling, Morris or Mattlingly for you?

 

[rightwinger]

Piazza and Biggio will be elected

Cheaters will be left out

No Schilling, Morris or Mattlingly for you?

I think Schilling will wait a year

Morris and Mattingly are been there done that. Close to HOF but no cigar

 

[rightwinger]

Best Pitchers not in the HOF

- Ron Guidry
- Dwight Gooden
- Fernando Valenzuela
- JR Richard
- Morris
- Luis Tiant

 

[deaddogseye]

of all the steroids guys who deserve to be left out -- the list is topped by mcgwire. If you look at his stats he was washed up well below HOF numbers. In 1993 and 1994 COMBINED he hit 18 HRs and drove in 49 runs. He was done .Then in 1995 he clearly starts to juice and hits 345 HRS the rest of his career. If there is one guy who should be kept out over steroids is this big oaf.

He is just the opposite of Bonds and Clemmens, regardless of what you think of the merits of their cases -- guys who were clearly HOFers beofre the steroids era began (at least as far as we know). This guy was a mediocrity at best turned into a mediocritiy with some HOF numbers solely as a result if steroids.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

I agree. Bonds and Clemens should be first-ballot inductees, but I bet that NONE of them make it, including McGwire.

Even without the steroid issue Mac is just a borderline HOF. He had the power of Bonds but in every other phase of the game Mac was just ordinary. Throw in the roids and he has no chance - which is what the voters have said the last few years.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

of all the steroids guys who deserve to be left out -- the list is topped by mcgwire. If you look at his stats he was washed up well below HOF numbers. In 1993 and 1994 COMBINED he hit 18 HRs and drove in 49 runs. He was done .Then in 1995 he clearly starts to juice and hits 345 HRS the rest of his career. If there is one guy who should be kept out over steroids is this big oaf.

He is just the opposite of Bonds and Clemmens, regardless of what you think of the merits of their cases -- guys who were clearly HOFers beofre the steroids era began (at least as far as we know). This guy was a mediocrity at best turned into a mediocritiy with some HOF numbers solely as a result if steroids.

I never thought much of Mac either but i'll mention his brother (who was a weightlifter and turned mac onto roids) says the roids helped mac only to the extent that they cleared up the foot pain he had.

 

[Rocko]

Piazza and Biggio will be elected

Cheaters will be left out

I think Piazza juiced.

 

[Rocko]

Bonds and clemens had better make it. If not the greatest position player and pitcher of all time, they are certainly both in the top 5. I am not convinced they did use PEDS but if so it did not help their careers much anyway. They were sensational long before they bulked up.

The critics say "using PEDs is cheating" but baseball has always been a cheaters paradise. Ask HOFer gaylord perry.

What do you mean using PEDs didn't help their careers. It was the key to their careers.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Roids Players:
Bonds - I think the best shot of all the roids players, but I think they make a statement
Clemens - Ditto
Sosa - Has some unbelievable years of what 160 RBIs+ the guy was a monster. Minus the roids suspicions he would be a 1st ballot, but the Big Mac miss foreshadowed Sosa.
Palmeiro - Sosa has better single season that Palmeiro (a ton better), but career stats, Palmeiro's are equivalent if not better than Sosa. But, like Big Mac, the voters have spoken on him!
Bagwell - See Palmeiro
Big Mac - already a no.

Old Timers Hold-Overs:
Jack Morris - I think he finally makes it.
Mattingly - Should make it and he will inch closer and miss.
Lee Smith - Should make it, but the voters hate closers. Very unjustifiably so.
Raines - Good player, but won't ever make the HOF.

!

In 2001 Sosa had one of the greatest years in history but no one knows of it since Bonds hit 73 HRs that year.

Bagwell may be the greatest 1B of all time. Almost as good a hitter as Gehrig and a much better fielder.

Mattingly does not belong. Over-rated player and a short career.

Raines will make it eventually. Almost a dupe of Rickey Henderson

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
What do you mean using PEDs didn't help their careers. It was the key to their careers.

BS. Consider Bonds. He was a fantastic player his first twelve or so years before he bulked up. After bulking up he was a better power hitter but lost his foot speed and went downhill in every other phase of the game. The added strength did NOT make him a better overall player. Being a pitcher and not needing foot speed, Clemens may have benefited a little from bulking up, but like Bonds he was sensational long before he used roids (if he did use them).

Bulking up (whether due to PEDs or just weightlifting) was NOT key to their careers.

 

[Rocko]

[
What do you mean using PEDs didn't help their careers. It was the key to their careers.

BS. Consider Bonds. He was a fantastic player his first twelve or so years before he bulked up. After bulking up he was a better power hitter but lost his foot speed and went downhill in every other phase of the game. The added strength did NOT make him a better overall player. Being a pitcher and not needing foot speed, Clemens may have benefited a little from bulking up, but like Bonds he was sensational long before he used roids (if he did use them).

Bulking up (whether due to PEDs or just weightlifting) was NOT key to their careers.

Bonds was a great player before he juiced, this is true, and in taking steriods he probably sacrificed some of his speed, but the guy had a season where he hit 73 homeruns in his late thirties. Instead of having 756 homeruns he probably would have been around 400. As for Rodger Clemens, juice allowed his body to repair faster. He wouldn't have been able to pitch at such a high level into his 40's without it.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[

Bonds was a great player before he juiced, this is true, and in taking steriods he probably sacrificed some of his speed, but the guy had a season where he hit 73 homeruns in his late thirties. Instead of having 756 homeruns he probably would have been around 400. As for Rodger Clemens, juice allowed his body to repair faster. He wouldn't have been able to pitch at such a high level into his 40's without it.

400 HRs for a 200 pound Bonds.???? More like 600. He was a tremendous slugger throughout his 20s when he was built average. Juice may have helped Clemens his last few years but he could have retired at 35 and still easily made the HOF.

 

[GHook93]

Roids Players:
Bonds - I think the best shot of all the roids players, but I think they make a statement
Clemens - Ditto
Sosa - Has some unbelievable years of what 160 RBIs+ the guy was a monster. Minus the roids suspicions he would be a 1st ballot, but the Big Mac miss foreshadowed Sosa.
Palmeiro - Sosa has better single season that Palmeiro (a ton better), but career stats, Palmeiro's are equivalent if not better than Sosa. But, like Big Mac, the voters have spoken on him!
Bagwell - See Palmeiro
Big Mac - already a no.

Old Timers Hold-Overs:
Jack Morris - I think he finally makes it.
Mattingly - Should make it and he will inch closer and miss.
Lee Smith - Should make it, but the voters hate closers. Very unjustifiably so.
Raines - Good player, but won't ever make the HOF.

!

In 2001 Sosa had one of the greatest years in history but no one knows of it since Bonds hit 73 HRs that year.

Bagwell may be the greatest 1B of all time. Almost as good a hitter as Gehrig and a much better fielder.

Mattingly does not belong. Over-rated player and a short career.

Raines will make it eventually. Almost a dupe of Rickey Henderson

Forget the HR, check out his RBI numbers they were in same from '95-'03 he had at least 100 RBIs a year. Once a player gets 100 RBIs they say he had a great year. In that run he had he years he drove in 119, one yr of 138, 142, 158 and 160!!! Amazing RBI numbers.

Bagwell had nothing on Gehrig. Raines isn't even in the say hemisphere as Henderson! Henderson is one of kind in the history of baseball! Still one of my favorites of all time.

Your right about Mattingly, he had a good 5 year run in the 80s, but they were amazing. He drove in 143 RBIs one year, consistent power numbers, BA in the mid-.300. But your right too short a period to be considered one of the greats.

 

[GHook93]

Piazza and Biggio will be elected

Cheaters will be left out

I think Piazza juiced.

Very possible. He was a big boy and had great bat speed, but he was injury prone (not a come characteristic of a juicer) and a very calm demeanor (Remember when Clemens tossed the bat at him, Clemens was have a roid rage moment)!

 

[GHook93]

[
What do you mean using PEDs didn't help their careers. It was the key to their careers.

BS. Consider Bonds. He was a fantastic player his first twelve or so years before he bulked up. After bulking up he was a better power hitter but lost his foot speed and went downhill in every other phase of the game. The added strength did NOT make him a better overall player. Being a pitcher and not needing foot speed, Clemens may have benefited a little from bulking up, but like Bonds he was sensational long before he used roids (if he did use them).

Bulking up (whether due to PEDs or just weightlifting) was NOT key to their careers.

You can't be serious. It's science.

(1) Amazing bat speed! Unnatural to the point, it can't be achieved without roids.
(2) Strength and power!
(3) Durability - Clemens was done after he left Boston, then he juiced and it revived his career in Toronto!
(4) Strengthens the joints! Huge for base ball players esp pitchers!