Background Checks ARE The Best Way

[OldLady]

I'm more into addressing the root cause. You know, not cleaning the blood off the floor but treating the wound that's creating the pool of blood.

My father and his friends routinely took their rifles to school to go rabbit hunting afterwards. I think that was common for most of America at that time. Yet it wasn't until the 1960's when random shootings became the norm.

What we have is the breakdown of values, lack of community involvement, and anti Christian values being taught to our youth. THAT is the root cause that needs to be addressed.

The root causes of the lack of respect for life need to be addressed, as well, I agree.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I guess the reduction in gun deaths in the 18 states that have enacted universal background checks don't mean anything to you?

fallacy: Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Post hoc ergo propter hoc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

way too early for that

It's never too early to point a post hoc argument.
You argue a correlation = causation fallacy.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Background checks already apply to the majority of guns sales. They should apply to all sales/transfers, not just some (except family transfers/loans as are already included in the law). It is these loopholes...

There are no loopholes; it is impossible to legally avoid a background check prescribed by law.

In states where the loopholes have been closed, it has caused a significant reduction in gun crime

It does not matter how many times you offer this post hoc fallacy, it remains a fallacy.

 

[Crixus]

This editorial was in the paper this morning by one of our police chiefs. Our state will be voting on universal background checks in November. Probably we're not the only one. Universal background checks do help! At least it's better than nothing.


"Background checks are the best way to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people

Commitment to public service is ingrained in my family’s DNA. My grandfather served the city of Portland as a lieutenant in the police force for 30 years, and my father was a captain in the city of Portland Fire Department. He died in the line of duty in 1956.

Their calling to serve the people of Maine was passed on to me when I joined the U.S. Army as a military policeman in 1969 and then the Cape Elizabeth Police Department as a patrolman. Forty-two years later, I’m the chief of the Falmouth Police Department and president of the Maine Chiefs of Police Association, an organization that represents law enforcement officers in our state.

Background checks help to protect police officers and other first responders, and they make our communities safer. For these reasons, I am committed to the expansion of background checks to all gun sales and transfers in Maine.

I wish I could say things were different, but my years of experience have shown me that bad people will do bad things. Exploiting available loopholes to get their hands on a gun is second nature to criminals. We know that background checks on all gun sales are the best, most effective way to make sure felons and other dangerous people can’t get guns easily.

Since 1998, we’ve applied the federal law that requires background checks to be conducted on gun sales at licensed firearms dealers. And it has worked. That law has stopped more than 5,500 gun sales to dangerous people in Maine, whether they be felons, domestic abusers or other prohibited people.

Still, the loophole makes it incredibly easy for them to instead find the firearm they are looking for online or in classified ads from an unlicensed dealer and buy that gun with no questions asked. As Maine Public Broadcasting Network recently reported, the unlicensed gun market in Maine is “ booming.”

Question 3 fixes this.

In the 18 states that already require background checks for all gun sales, 48 percent fewer law enforcement officers are killed with handguns, 48 percent fewer individuals take their own lives with guns and 46 percent fewer women are shot and killed by their intimate partners. What’s more, we’ve also seen a 48 percent reduction in gun trafficking. By comparison, in Missouri, where lawmakers in 2007 repealed a law requiring background checks on all private gun sale, saw a 25 percent spike in firearm-related homicides.

It’s indisputable that background checks work.

This is a measure that enhances public safety while protecting law enforcement officers.

I’ve also heard the anecdotal scenarios that opponents to Question 3 have offered, which, they say, point to shortcomings in the initiative. There are those who say this measure would turn law-abiding Mainers into criminals, but in the 18 states where these laws are already in place, that has not proven true. The initiative allows people to loan guns to their hunting friends and to give or sell guns to family members without a background check.

Unfortunately, as with any campaign, there’s a lot of misinformation out there. Despite those vague and hypothetical scenarios, Question 3 is and should be seen as an extension of Maine’s heritage of responsible gun ownership.

No one wants criminals to have easy access to guns. By ensuring background checks are conducted for all sales and transfers of firearms, Mainers can be assured that when they are selling or transferring their gun, they know that whoever is on the receiving end is not a dangerous person. This is part and parcel of responsible gun ownership.

I’ve spent my career working side by side with the many good men and women of the Maine law enforcement community to protect and serve the people of this state. I want Maine to be safe, and I want to protect and preserve our heritage of responsible gun ownership. Question 3 does just that.

As a lifelong law enforcement officer and a proud Mainer, I urge voters to join me in voting yes on Question 3 in November.

Ed Tolan is chief of the Falmouth Police Department and president of the Maine Chiefs of Police Association, which has endorsed a “yes” vote on Question 3."

Background checks are the best way to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people

Stopped reading at the part where they say felons can buy on line. People who say this are liars by omission and should be dismissed as nothing more then gossip columnists.

I'm sure the Chief will be pleased to hear it. Unless you have an extensive law enforcement background, I'm more likely to take his word for it.

The chief is nothing g more then a political sycophant licking his masters bootheel. I dealt in guns for years. More so then some soft Yankee main wannabe cop. He basically says a felon can order guns online. This is not true at all. You can order and pay for guns online all day, but unless you have an FFL you will be going through the exact same process as if you went to a gun store. Now, if I were ti go to a popular auction site I could just look around until I find a private seller in my area an bam, non transfer gun sale. See that's the issue I have with people like the chief there. He has yet to explain how any murder anywhere has been prevented by any back round check at any time.

I guess the reduction in gun deaths in the 18 states that have enacted universal background checks don't mean anything to you?

Not really no. And by gun deaths, how many gun deaths were prevented by having to fill out a yellow paper? ill reckon none. only good guys will be addressed by the yellow paper.

 

[TNHarley]

this just goes on and on...neither side willing to compromise at all....i loved when the nra..said ...government was going to take the arms and refuse to give purchase permits to people on social security ...when in reality....what they said....people who were unable to manage their affairs and have guardians like my moms does...should not have guns or purchase permits....my mother is incompetent and does not understand what a gun is a...and yet the nra thinks its okay to arm her?

Its the fact that big govt bureaucrats will have the power to give/deny. ITs also a pandoras box.
You give those greedy fuckers an inch, and they take a mile.

 

[OldLady]

At least it's better than nothing.

Because we know 100% for sure that thugs, terrorists and insane people will NOT obey this or any law, how is restricting the ability of good, law abiding citizens from protecting themselves against those criminals "better"?

By your logic, you're okay with giving the bad guys an advantage. That's not better, that's fucking insane.

This law would not restrict any good, law abiding citizen from owning a weapon or protecting themselves in the least.

Do you know how to get a background check on anyone? Especially from two citizens? Do you know how much they cost?

I've just been told around here it's around $25.
The local gun stores will run them for you.

 

[OldLady]

This editorial was in the paper this morning by one of our police chiefs. Our state will be voting on universal background checks in November. Probably we're not the only one. Universal background checks do help! At least it's better than nothing.


"Background checks are the best way to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people

Commitment to public service is ingrained in my family’s DNA. My grandfather served the city of Portland as a lieutenant in the police force for 30 years, and my father was a captain in the city of Portland Fire Department. He died in the line of duty in 1956.

Their calling to serve the people of Maine was passed on to me when I joined the U.S. Army as a military policeman in 1969 and then the Cape Elizabeth Police Department as a patrolman. Forty-two years later, I’m the chief of the Falmouth Police Department and president of the Maine Chiefs of Police Association, an organization that represents law enforcement officers in our state.

Background checks help to protect police officers and other first responders, and they make our communities safer. For these reasons, I am committed to the expansion of background checks to all gun sales and transfers in Maine.

I wish I could say things were different, but my years of experience have shown me that bad people will do bad things. Exploiting available loopholes to get their hands on a gun is second nature to criminals. We know that background checks on all gun sales are the best, most effective way to make sure felons and other dangerous people can’t get guns easily.

Since 1998, we’ve applied the federal law that requires background checks to be conducted on gun sales at licensed firearms dealers. And it has worked. That law has stopped more than 5,500 gun sales to dangerous people in Maine, whether they be felons, domestic abusers or other prohibited people.

Still, the loophole makes it incredibly easy for them to instead find the firearm they are looking for online or in classified ads from an unlicensed dealer and buy that gun with no questions asked. As Maine Public Broadcasting Network recently reported, the unlicensed gun market in Maine is “ booming.”

Question 3 fixes this.

In the 18 states that already require background checks for all gun sales, 48 percent fewer law enforcement officers are killed with handguns, 48 percent fewer individuals take their own lives with guns and 46 percent fewer women are shot and killed by their intimate partners. What’s more, we’ve also seen a 48 percent reduction in gun trafficking. By comparison, in Missouri, where lawmakers in 2007 repealed a law requiring background checks on all private gun sale, saw a 25 percent spike in firearm-related homicides.

It’s indisputable that background checks work.

This is a measure that enhances public safety while protecting law enforcement officers.

I’ve also heard the anecdotal scenarios that opponents to Question 3 have offered, which, they say, point to shortcomings in the initiative. There are those who say this measure would turn law-abiding Mainers into criminals, but in the 18 states where these laws are already in place, that has not proven true. The initiative allows people to loan guns to their hunting friends and to give or sell guns to family members without a background check.

Unfortunately, as with any campaign, there’s a lot of misinformation out there. Despite those vague and hypothetical scenarios, Question 3 is and should be seen as an extension of Maine’s heritage of responsible gun ownership.

No one wants criminals to have easy access to guns. By ensuring background checks are conducted for all sales and transfers of firearms, Mainers can be assured that when they are selling or transferring their gun, they know that whoever is on the receiving end is not a dangerous person. This is part and parcel of responsible gun ownership.

I’ve spent my career working side by side with the many good men and women of the Maine law enforcement community to protect and serve the people of this state. I want Maine to be safe, and I want to protect and preserve our heritage of responsible gun ownership. Question 3 does just that.

As a lifelong law enforcement officer and a proud Mainer, I urge voters to join me in voting yes on Question 3 in November.

Ed Tolan is chief of the Falmouth Police Department and president of the Maine Chiefs of Police Association, which has endorsed a “yes” vote on Question 3."

Background checks are the best way to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people

Stopped reading at the part where they say felons can buy on line. People who say this are liars by omission and should be dismissed as nothing more then gossip columnists.

I'm sure the Chief will be pleased to hear it. Unless you have an extensive law enforcement background, I'm more likely to take his word for it.

Chances are all he ever was was a desk jockey, brown noser.

I think you should try reading the article. Patrolman, MP before that.

I've been a member on a LE board for 10 years so I know what the deal is, you don't.

Yes, what I'm saying is, if you know so much, why won't you share it?

 

[OldLady]

48 percent fewer individuals take their own lives with guns
What a stupid thing to say. Is jumping in front of a train better for him?

I don't think that's what he meant. If it isn't handy, maybe you'll wake up in the morning feeling better?

Then why doesn't America, with all her firearms, not rank anywhere near the top in the list of countries by suicide rate? Further, how is it possible that 50+ countries have higher suicides rates, despite their effective bans on civilian firearm ownership? A firearm isn't "handy" in any of those countries, yet off themselves they do, at a much higher rate than gun handy America.

Sounds like facts are of no concern to you. In grown up world, emotional arguments aren't arguments at all and valuing intention over actual results, well that's just fucking insane. Hey, a recurring theme with you!

Yes, I'm quite emotional about the fact that in the 18 states where universal background checks have been enacted, there have been nearly 50% reduction in gun related DV deaths and police deaths. Explain that, Mr. Grown Up.

First, you'll have to cite that stat and two, gun related deaths, and all crime for that matter, are down in all states.

Statistics 101.

Try again?

His sources weren't in the article. Look it up if you're interested. I highly doubt he pulled the numbers out of his ass.

 

[August West]

In my state I can buy 10 handguns today and sale them on the street and when they`re found to have been used in a criminal way I merely need to say they were stolen. End of story....until I buy 10 more and have those "stolen" too. Why does the gun/criminal lobby support straw purchases? Because they receive millions from the gun makers to oppose even the most innocuous gun laws. I have as much respect for them as I do any other group that helps arm terrorists, foreign and domestic.

 

[TNHarley]

In my state I can buy 10 handguns today and sale them on the street and when they`re found to have been used in a criminal way I merely need to say they were stolen. End of story....until I buy 10 more and have those "stolen" too. Why does the gun/criminal lobby support straw purchases? Because they receive millions from the gun makers to oppose even the most innocuous gun laws. I have as much respect for them as I do any other group that helps arm terrorists, foreign and domestic.

Straw purchases are illegal
Why should a gun owner be responsible for ANOTHER persons actions? That is about as totalitarian as it comes. Punishment at will

 

[August West]

In my state I can buy 10 handguns today and sale them on the street and when they`re found to have been used in a criminal way I merely need to say they were stolen. End of story....until I buy 10 more and have those "stolen" too. Why does the gun/criminal lobby support straw purchases? Because they receive millions from the gun makers to oppose even the most innocuous gun laws. I have as much respect for them as I do any other group that helps arm terrorists, foreign and domestic.

Straw purchases are illegal
Why should a gun owner be responsible for ANOTHER persons actions? That is about as totalitarian as it comes. Punishment at will

Why wouldn`t you want to report guns that were stolen from you? Are you a straw purchaser?

 

[OldLady]

I guess the reduction in gun deaths in the 18 states that have enacted universal background checks don't mean anything to you?

fallacy: Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Post hoc ergo propter hoc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

way too early for that

It's never too early to point a post hoc argument.
You argue a correlation = causation fallacy.

You don't know the correlation doesn't represent causation. Whatever works, I say.

 

[12icer]

Actually the idea that you can do that is ludicrous. There is a FEDERAL organization that will have you in custody in short order if you do that. There is a law against straw purchases already, AND CRIMINALS like straw purchasers do not go through background checks. The ONLY reason to pass a law like the one written is to remove firearms from those who comply with the law by giving the people who wish to completely disarm LAW ABIDING AMERICANS the tool to do it by labeling anyone they wish as they already do when they speak of any person who disagrees with their agenda as a racist, homophobe sexist, islamaphobe, or any other label It will be a simple matter to once they have the ability to define the character of an "acceptable gun owner" to put all of these labels and CONSERVATIVE THINKER in the pile. If you do not think they will you are a complete fool.

 

[Iceweasel]

Stopped reading at the part where they say felons can buy on line. People who say this are liars by omission and should be dismissed as nothing more then gossip columnists.

I'm sure the Chief will be pleased to hear it. Unless you have an extensive law enforcement background, I'm more likely to take his word for it.

Chances are all he ever was was a desk jockey, brown noser.

I think you should try reading the article. Patrolman, MP before that.

I've been a member on a LE board for 10 years so I know what the deal is, you don't.

Yes, what I'm saying is, if you know so much, why won't you share it?

I just did. Don't take my word for it, go to officer.com and search it. Most are stron 2nd amendment constitutional types, because being sworn means they swear to uphold the constitution. They are familiar than any of us that the problem is not the guns but the repeat offenders that plea down and get right back into the same shit, until somebody dies.

 

[OldLady]

this just goes on and on...neither side willing to compromise at all....i loved when the nra..said ...government was going to take the arms and refuse to give purchase permits to people on social security ...when in reality....what they said....people who were unable to manage their affairs and have guardians like my moms does...should not have guns or purchase permits....my mother is incompetent and does not understand what a gun is a...and yet the nra thinks its okay to arm her?

Its the fact that big govt bureaucrats will have the power to give/deny. ITs also a pandoras box.
You give those greedy fuckers an inch, and they take a mile.

Hullo. There has been a federal law since 1993 requiring background checks by licensed dealers. That ship has sailed.

 

[TNHarley]

In my state I can buy 10 handguns today and sale them on the street and when they`re found to have been used in a criminal way I merely need to say they were stolen. End of story....until I buy 10 more and have those "stolen" too. Why does the gun/criminal lobby support straw purchases? Because they receive millions from the gun makers to oppose even the most innocuous gun laws. I have as much respect for them as I do any other group that helps arm terrorists, foreign and domestic.

Straw purchases are illegal
Why should a gun owner be responsible for ANOTHER persons actions? That is about as totalitarian as it comes. Punishment at will

Why wouldn`t you want to report guns that were stolen from you? Are you a straw purchaser?

What if you don't know? You think most gun owners tuck their guns in to bed every night?

 

[TNHarley]

this just goes on and on...neither side willing to compromise at all....i loved when the nra..said ...government was going to take the arms and refuse to give purchase permits to people on social security ...when in reality....what they said....people who were unable to manage their affairs and have guardians like my moms does...should not have guns or purchase permits....my mother is incompetent and does not understand what a gun is a...and yet the nra thinks its okay to arm her?

Its the fact that big govt bureaucrats will have the power to give/deny. ITs also a pandoras box.
You give those greedy fuckers an inch, and they take a mile.

Hullo. There has been a federal law since 1993 requiring background checks by licensed dealers. That ship has sailed.

Read what I bolded above

 

[M14 Shooter]

In my state I can buy 10 handguns today and sale them on the street and when they`re found to have been used in a criminal way I merely need to say they were stolen. End of story.

If you want to lie to the police, sure.
Given this, what gun control law would prevent you from selling these guns?

Why does the gun/criminal lobby support straw purchases?

Fallacy: Begging the question
No one supports straw purchases.

Because they receive millions from the gun makers to oppose even the most innocuous gun laws. I have as much respect for them as I do any other group that helps arm terrorists, foreign and domestic.

Mindless nonsense.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I guess the reduction in gun deaths in the 18 states that have enacted universal background checks don't mean anything to you?

fallacy: Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Post hoc ergo propter hoc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

way too early for that

It's never too early to point a post hoc argument.
You argue a correlation = causation fallacy.

You don't know the correlation doesn't represent causation. Whatever works, I say.

YOU argue that correlation = causation.
YOU do not understand this is a post hoc fallacy - that is, you do not understand your argument is unsound.
Why do you refuse to understand this?

 

[OldLady]

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.... a good gun thread with myriad rabbit holes to explore....
The proposal to require background checks for all sales/transfers of firearms (except immediate family) instead of just some sales/transfers makes no sense because of:
The suicide rate in Japan
The political affiliation of the Town Manager of Falmouth
Something or other in Latin
Criminals don't respect the law
It is emotional and stupid to want to prevent crime

Carry on.