Atheists are hoping aliens from outer space will contact us...

[hobelim]

Christians don't sacrifice goats over the fires anymore.

Nonsense.

I have seen many christians roasting hashev, a he-goat without blemish, over the flames. I have seen many christians put to the fire by atheists like fatted calves... Either way, a soothing and fragrant offering that is pleasing to the Lord.

What a person sees or doesn't see depends on what they understand or don't.


Obviously the subject and purpose of ritual sacrifice remains hidden from most, even from the ones claim to comply with divine law, the ones who proclaim the law is obsolete, and the ones who insist it is some archaic superstitious relic of the past......

 

[RWS]

And this is directed to people who still argue about Communists....

If you believe in "Heaven", then that would be a Communist society. The idea of Heaven is that there is equality, everyone lives peacefully and shares, and nobody has more access to God than you do. Nobody should be better off or worse than you in "Heaven". You should all be equal and there should be no "classes" in "heaven" based on how much money you had when you died. Everything should be cool and equal in "Heaven".

That is what Communism is. So if you hate Communism, I wonder what you then expect in Heaven?

 

[hobelim]

And this is directed to people who still argue about Communists....

If you believe in "Heaven", then that would be a Communist society. The idea of Heaven is that there is equality, everyone lives peacefully and shares, and nobody has more access to God than you do. Nobody should be better off or worse than you in "Heaven". You should all be equal and there should be no "classes" in "heaven" based on how much money you had when you died. Everything should be cool and equal in "Heaven".

That is what Communism is. So if you hate Communism, I wonder what you then expect in Heaven?

Jesus spoke of there being people who are called great or least in the kingdom of heaven. Everyone is accountable for and receives the fruit of their labor according to the measure of their actions, great or small, in doing either good or evil....


Its just the opposite of what people believe and value in others on earth...

Here many people to this day still think that religious deceivers are holy men and that honesty is a flaw...

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

I was born on this rock
And I've been travelin' through space
Since the moment I first realized
What all you fast talkin' cats would do if you could
You know, I'm ready for the final surprise
There ain't no way around it
Ain't nothing to say
That's gonna satisfy my soul deep inside
All the prayers and surveyors
Keep the whole place uptight

 

[Boss]

Religions and Religious beliefs are ubiquitous across times, and countries and cultures. From the perspective of Evolution it signals that it has Evolutionary survival value. It seems to me that human beings by virtue of simply being alive experience Existential anxiety at the awareness that our personal death and that of our family friends and loved one loom ahead and that we Exist in a boundlessly Mysterious universe....Organized Religion seems to offer an answer to that background anxiety all folks experience and answers to the Questions that surge in human minds about being alive in this Universe.

I can appreciate what you're saying here and I agree with certain aspects. Human spirituality does indicate evolutionary survival value, that's hard to deny. The question is, why? So we can surmise as you have, that it's because humans realize their own mortality and experience existential anxiety. That's an easy enough explanation until you start to ponder how the hell did we contemplate existentialism or immortality to begin with? It's kind of like the chicken or egg dilemma. Other species of life don't seem to have this problem grappling with their own mortality. So this tells me that it's possibly the other way around, we didn't invent spirituality to cope with our anxiety, the anxiety was created by our spirituality which already existed.

Religion is simply a manifestation of our inherent spirituality. We are creatures who are hard-wired with an inherent "sense" of something beyond ourselves. We don't know what it is, we can't really define it, but we are spiritually aware and connected to it. Religions serve as a placeholder for those senses and we obtain a semblance of solitude through religious connection with others.

I prefer to view The Church (organized religion) as sort of a "health club" for human spirituality. Now, lots of people believe in maintaining good physical health but they don't necessarily believe they need to join a health club. They have the inner discipline to exercise and maintain their health without the need for a place to go. Others might find it beneficial and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't go around bashing religion because I think it's an important aspect for a lot of people. It's how they feel they can spiritually connect the best.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

I can appreciate what you're saying here and I agree with certain aspects. Human spirituality does indicate evolutionary survival value, that's hard to deny. The question is, why? So we can surmise as you have, that it's because humans realize their own mortality and experience existential anxiety. That's an easy enough explanation until you start to ponder how the hell did we contemplate existentialism or immortality to begin with? It's kind of like the chicken or egg dilemma. Other species of life don't seem to have this problem grappling with their own mortality. So this tells me that it's possibly the other way around, we didn't invent spirituality to cope with our anxiety, the anxiety was created by our spirituality which already existed.

As long as we were survivalist hunter gatherers with no margin of survival reserves [IE surplus food stocks] we simply did not have time or energy to ponder much about what was going on we had to be in survival mode all the time
... we also lived in direct contact with the natural world and thus there was not as much a sense of separation from source ...It is unclear if other sentient animals experience anxiety and angst.... I simply do not know ...hearing the howling sound of a train in the distance sometimes made me think that even the Iron Horse was feeling it...
Can other animals experience existential dread?

"- Your car is an extension of you, just like everything and everyone are extensions of you, so put some love into your car, and then send love out ..."
"The next time something happens to your car, make a note as to what you feel the broken part represents and see if you can connect it to how you are feeling at that particular moment. You may be surprised at the results."

 

[Mudda]

...and tell us there's no God.

That is why scientists like Carl Sagan so eagerly tell us there MUST be life on other planets, but it's a wish, there is no science to back up his claims.

So far, after decades of listening with radio telescopes, the skies have been totally silent.

Either aliens don't exist at all anywhere in the universe, or they are so far away their transmissions will never reach us.

And in either case, we will never have aliens visit us.

We are probably alone.

Aliens are already here.

 

[Boss]

As long as we were survivalist hunter gatherers with no margin of survival reserves [IE surplus food stocks] we simply did not have time or energy to ponder much about what was going on we had to be in survival mode all the time...

We have evidence from the oldest remains of human civilization showing that our most ancient ancestors had spiritual beliefs and practiced spiritual rituals. So you have to go back to before we were civilized creatures. Even then, I would have to say that man, at some point, became spiritually aware of something greater than self because you really need a source of inspiration for mankind to make the next leap.

Now you may be right in that we didn't have time to ponder "religions" and that would make sense because religions didn't transpire until thousands of years later.

 

[Mudda]

As long as we were survivalist hunter gatherers with no margin of survival reserves [IE surplus food stocks] we simply did not have time or energy to ponder much about what was going on we had to be in survival mode all the time...

We have evidence from the oldest remains of human civilization showing that our most ancient ancestors had spiritual beliefs and practiced spiritual rituals. So you have to go back to before we were civilized creatures. Even then, I would have to say that man, at some point, became spiritually aware of something greater than self because you really need a source of inspiration for mankind to make the next leap.

Now you may be right in that we didn't have time to ponder "religions" and that would make sense because religions didn't transpire until thousands of years later.

Our ancestors had the belief in gods because they thought the aliens were gods. These kinds of stories are in pretty much every culture.

 

[RWS]

Religions and Religious beliefs are ubiquitous across times, and countries and cultures. From the perspective of Evolution it signals that it has Evolutionary survival value. It seems to me that human beings by virtue of simply being alive experience Existential anxiety at the awareness that our personal death and that of our family friends and loved one loom ahead and that we Exist in a boundlessly Mysterious universe....Organized Religion seems to offer an answer to that background anxiety all folks experience and answers to the Questions that surge in human minds about being alive in this Universe.

I can appreciate what you're saying here and I agree with certain aspects. Human spirituality does indicate evolutionary survival value, that's hard to deny. The question is, why? So we can surmise as you have, that it's because humans realize their own mortality and experience existential anxiety. That's an easy enough explanation until you start to ponder how the hell did we contemplate existentialism or immortality to begin with? It's kind of like the chicken or egg dilemma. Other species of life don't seem to have this problem grappling with their own mortality. So this tells me that it's possibly the other way around, we didn't invent spirituality to cope with our anxiety, the anxiety was created by our spirituality which already existed.

Religion is simply a manifestation of our inherent spirituality. We are creatures who are hard-wired with an inherent "sense" of something beyond ourselves. We don't know what it is, we can't really define it, but we are spiritually aware and connected to it. Religions serve as a placeholder for those senses and we obtain a semblance of solitude through religious connection with others.

I prefer to view The Church (organized religion) as sort of a "health club" for human spirituality. Now, lots of people believe in maintaining good physical health but they don't necessarily believe they need to join a health club. They have the inner discipline to exercise and maintain their health without the need for a place to go. Others might find it beneficial and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't go around bashing religion because I think it's an important aspect for a lot of people. It's how they feel they can spiritually connect the best.

There you go again, but this time, you're squaring around and bunting...

You're just waiting to see which side takes a lead, so you can team up with them.

It's ok for you to want to get a group to circle-jerk each other.

But it's not how I roll...

We all have to understand our place in this world. And what we can do to make it better. It can be by maintaining the status quo, or wanting something better.

And in the case of institutionalized religions, we should want something better. Because what they give us, are the reasons we have most of the major problems in this world.

Now, how can that get better?

Certainly not with us fools debating with each other on a forum.

It can only happen with enlightenment. Which brings us back to the OP... It's the only way it can happen, where people will start opening their eyes and drop their birth religions and fundamentalist views.

It's suggested that we should find conclusive evidence of ET-life in the next 10 years. It may not be intelligent, but it will show that life is not exclusive to Earth. Which can set the foundation for a new reality, and hope.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

As long as we were survivalist hunter gatherers with no margin of survival reserves [IE surplus food stocks] we simply did not have time or energy to ponder much about what was going on we had to be in survival mode all the time...

We have evidence from the oldest remains of human civilization showing that our most ancient ancestors had spiritual beliefs and practiced spiritual rituals. So you have to go back to before we were civilized creatures. Even then, I would have to say that man, at some point, became spiritually aware of something greater than self because you really need a source of inspiration for mankind to make the next leap.

Now you may be right in that we didn't have time to ponder "religions" and that would make sense because religions didn't transpire until thousands of years later.

awareness of "something greater than self" is awareness of separation between self and that "something greater" or Higher self ... it is that sense of separation that is illusion

That sense of separation marks "getting kicked out of Paradise"...Paradise was not a physical place it was a "State of Being" with no sense of separation but of oneness with All ..some sort of Spiritual Big Bang may have occurred separating the Zero from the One and launching us as Free will agents into Space Time continuum; a hostile and difficult terrain that the sentient through Life must cross before reclaiming an Awareness of Self ...or not reclaiming ...

 

[Boss]

There you go again, but this time, you're squaring around and bunting...

You're just waiting to see which side takes a lead, so you can team up with them.

It's ok for you to want to get a group to circle-jerk each other.

But it's not how I roll...

We all have to understand our place in this world. And what we can do to make it better. It can be by maintaining the status quo, or wanting something better.

And in the case of institutionalized religions, we should want something better. Because what they give us, are the reasons we have most of the major problems in this world.

Now, how can that get better?

Certainly not with us fools debating with each other on a forum.

It can only happen with enlightenment. Which brings us back to the OP... It's the only way it can happen, where people will start opening their eyes and drop their birth religions and fundamentalist views.

It's suggested that we should find conclusive evidence of ET-life in the next 10 years. It may not be intelligent, but it will show that life is not exclusive to Earth. Which can set the foundation for a new reality, and hope.

Well no, I'm not bunting or switch-hitting or whatever dumb analogy you'd like to make. I am speaking philosophically over your head, which isn't very hard to do, to be perfectly honest.

Now... let's discuss this concept you've presented about "better" and what that means exactly? Better than what? Better in what sense? By what measure are you determining what is or isn't "better" for all of mankind? Is this from some sense of "good" that you are ordained with which none of the rest of us have? And what IS "good"? And what IS "evil"?

To me, these are all arbitrary criteria which are essentially rooted in our spiritual foundations. Your ideas of what constitutes "good" or "better" or "best" may be completely different from mine. Your ideas aren't validated simply because you believe they are true and neither are mine.

Hitler thought it was "better" and "good" to exterminate 7 million Jews. The 19 hijackers on 9/11 thought it was "better" and "good" to fly airplanes into the WTC buildings. Their ideas weren't validated because they believed them to be true.

 

[Boss]

awareness of "something greater than self" is awareness of separation between self and that "something greater" or Higher self ... it is that sense of separation that is illusion

That sense of separation marks "getting kicked out of Paradise"...Paradise was not a physical place it was a "State of Being" with no sense of separation but of oneness with All ..some sort of Spiritual Big Bang may have occurred separating the Zero from the One and launching us as Free will agents into Space Time continuum; a hostile and difficult terrain that the sentient through Life must cross before reclaiming an Awareness of Self ...or not reclaiming ...

Perhaps.

But I have to say, this sounds an awful lot like the makings of a religious viewpoint. In any respect, it is synonymous with the type of rationalizations found in organized religions. That's not to say it's not true or I disagree. It could very well be... could be that we're all spiritual souls who are being punished by having to endure a physical existence because our souls are inferior? Or perhaps this physical existence is a sort of "training ground" for our spirits to grow?

 

[Skieler]

...and tell us there's no God.

That is why scientists like Carl Sagan so eagerly tell us there MUST be life on other planets, but it's a wish, there is no science to back up his claims.

So far, after decades of listening with radio telescopes, the skies have been totally silent.

Either aliens don't exist at all anywhere in the universe, or they are so far away their transmissions will never reach us.

And in either case, we will never have aliens visit us.

We are probably alone.

Hmm religious people believe in God but not aliens, right? Because if so that in itself is a contradiction of terms. If there is a God and he created Earth and the heavens as it was written, wouldn't that mean that since he was not originally from Earth nor ever resided on the planet that by definition he himself is an alien?

God is the creator of the universe and he is everywhere, aka, omnipresent.

So you're admitting he is an alien, right?

 

[Doc1]

We may or may not be alone but even if we are not, it doesn't mean there is no God. God is a creator, so why would he feel restricted to just one tiny planet in our galaxy? He could have all kinds of other worlds with different kinds of life/creatures/people.

But it might cause a crisis in Christianity, especially Catholicism.

Catholicism is a very humanocentric religion. We believe that God sent his only Son to be Man, and it is through the Son of God's death, as a man, that we are saved.

We consume the Body and Blood of Christ during the Mass, and the reason that works is because we share humanity with Christ.

The introduction of an alien life form that was intelligent but not human might throw the entire equation out of whack for Catholics.

Man you need to pay closer attention to what's going on in your own church. Pope Francis has come out and said that he would "baptize" aliens. He has come out and said that all religions lead to god. The Catholics have one of the most powerful telescopes ever made on top of Mt Graham in Az. Man you are out of the loop.

 

[Syriusly]

...and tell us there's no God.

That is why scientists like Carl Sagan so eagerly tell us there MUST be life on other planets, but it's a wish, there is no science to back up his claims.

So far, after decades of listening with radio telescopes, the skies have been totally silent.

Either aliens don't exist at all anywhere in the universe, or they are so far away their transmissions will never reach us.

And in either case, we will never have aliens visit us.

We are probably alone.

Which atheists are you speaking of?

And why do you care?

There are lots of fascinating possibilities- but of course you don't quote anyone, or provide any link, its just your personal babbling.

For actual discussion- start here
Stephen Hawking: Intelligent Aliens Could Destroy Humanity, But Let's Search Anyway

 

[Syriusly]

The alien thing is a religious issue for the atheists. They think if we are contacted by aliens, the entire Christian religion will have a faith crisis and collapse in ruin. This is the reason atheists run around insisting that aliens are real, when they have absolutely no proof to back up these claims.

Do you really spend time and thought to pull this crap wholesale out of your ass?

I am an atheist. Whether or not we ever encounter alien life form doesn't change my 'atheism' either way.

And why would i want the 'entire Christian religion to collapse in ruin?

And who other than the bizarre wingnuts on the internet are running around claiming aliens are real?

Why are you spending time attacking me- for my non-belief in your God- rather than tending to your own soul?

 

[Boss]

I am an atheist. Whether or not we ever encounter alien life form doesn't change my 'atheism' either way.

Hypothetical question: What if we make contact with an alien civilization much different than our own in many ways but the one obvious commonality is they also have the propensity to worship a higher power?

Would that cause you to reconsider your viewpoint or would you find a way to explain this most incredible similarity?

 

[sealybobo]

...and tell us there's no God.

That is why scientists like Carl Sagan so eagerly tell us there MUST be life on other planets, but it's a wish, there is no science to back up his claims.

So far, after decades of listening with radio telescopes, the skies have been totally silent.

Either aliens don't exist at all anywhere in the universe, or they are so far away their transmissions will never reach us.

And in either case, we will never have aliens visit us.

We are probably alone.

How would aliens know? Either they believe too or they don't. But like us they don't know either.

Now if they told us the same Jesus story that would be interesting.

But my guess is if they are religious they believe they are his chosen one.

You have no idea how big the universe is or how many stars are out there.

But you are correct they are like us. Not intelligent enough to see or travel that far.

I believe there either was, is, or will be life around every star eventually.

If there is life on other planets what will that prove to you? Will it prove your religion is a lie? What's at stake here? My guess is nothing. Even if we found life everywhere you would still believe in God.

So why do you believe we are alone? Is your religion riding on it?

 

[sealybobo]

The alien thing is a religious issue for the atheists. They think if we are contacted by aliens, the entire Christian religion will have a faith crisis and collapse in ruin. This is the reason atheists run around insisting that aliens are real, when they have absolutely no proof to back up these claims.

Why do you think we are alone? Does your religion say we are alone?