Atheism is the believe that something came out of nothing and we're all going nowhere

[ding]

Jus sayin, because you are so deeply repressed and holding stuff in, that when you finally pop, it's gonna make a mess!

You're smart enough to start understanding what everyone has said, but you refuse.

In a nutshell, it is that it is cool to follow a faith, but definitely not cool to follow a religion.

Let that santa claus stuff go, and see the reality. I'm telling ya, you'll poop better once you do...

There is only one way to see reality. You must die to self. I don't see you doing that. You will never find peace until you do.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

There is only one way to see reality. You must die to self.

and you do that by becoming a 4th century christian, good luck finding your way back.

 

[RWS]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven".

There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

 

[ding]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

 

[Skull Pilot]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

 

[edthecynic]

No. I don't believe I am a good man.

Well, that is so obvious you can't hide it let alone deny it.

 

[edthecynic]

There is only one way to see reality. You must die to self.

Except you lie to yourself.

 

[edthecynic]

I never claimed to be a saint.

Again, it is so obvious that you could never make that claim.

 

[ding]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

 

[ding]

No. I don't believe I am a good man.

Well, that is so obvious you can't hide it let alone deny it.

There is only one way to see reality. You must die to self.

Except you lie to yourself.

I never claimed to be a saint.

Again, it is so obvious that you could never make that claim.

This is you lashing out because your pride has been wounded from our previous discussions.

Are you still carrying that girl? I left her by the stream.

Two Monks and a Woman - a Zen Lesson | KindSpring.org

 

[RWS]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

That's so sad... I can't believe you will dismiss the Pope... God speaks to the Pope. The Pope speaks to you.

Are you saying that you transcend the Pope? And have a higher one-on-one with God than the Pope?

 

[ding]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

That's so sad... I can't believe you will dismiss the Pope... God speaks to the Pope. The Pope speaks to you.

Are you saying that you transcend the Pope? And have a higher one-on-one with God than the Pope?

That's petty funny coming from a guy who doesn't believe God exists, don't you think?

Laughing leads to crying.

 

[BreezeWood]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

so much for objectivity, dying of self ... how is that better, is it political.

 

[ding]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

so much for objectivity, dying of self ... how is that better, is it political.

I would not expect you to understand anything I say.

 

[Skull Pilot]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

then tell me why all the talk of heaven, paradise and eternal rewards or the lake of fire the second death the weeping and gnashing of teeth etc.

if god really just wanted people to accept and love him for who he is there would be no need to punish those who don't

you claim to be objective but when you are biased into believing god is responsible all that exists you are not objective

 

[ding]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

then tell me why all the talk of heaven, paradise and eternal rewards or the lake of fire the second death the weeping and gnashing of teeth etc.

if god really just wanted people to accept and love him for who he is there would be no need to punish those who don't

you claim to be objective but when you are biased into believing god is responsible all that exists you are not objective

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

 

[Skull Pilot]

See again, you are pushing religions that require you to die to see "heaven". There's a reason they say that... And it's military, since nobody will be willing to die unless they believe their salvation relies upon it.

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

The Pope spoke about that last week. And he renounced it. He called people like you something akin to fake Christians. And said that you are worse than atheists (which I'm not btw).

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

And despite that, you continue to push extreme measures like death to see your "god".

That's not the way it works. You find "god" in life. Not death. And finding "god" in life means that you want to protect life as much as possible. Not kill others or die because of it.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

Ding, as a Christian, either you listen to the Pope going forward, or you make things up as you go. Which way are you going to roll now?

Militant Christian, or repentant Christian, or flavor of the day?

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

then tell me why all the talk of heaven, paradise and eternal rewards or the lake of fire the second death the weeping and gnashing of teeth etc.

if god really just wanted people to accept and love him for who he is there would be no need to punish those who don't

you claim to be objective but when you are biased into believing god is responsible all that exists you are not objective

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

no I said why mention it at all if the purpose of the bible is to convince people to love and accept god for who or what he is? Why set up punishment and reward?

If god only wanted people to accept him then he could simply ignore all those who don't rather than threatening them with eternal damnation

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Atheism is the believe that something came out of nothing and we're all going nowhere

No it isn't.

 

[ding]

lol, no. Dying to self does not mean to literally die. It means to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to one's self. I can see that you are a deep thinker.

I am more than happy for you to see me as a fake Christian. No skin off my teeth. I never claimed to be a saint. I'm sure it makes you feel better to believe that you are not an atheist but your behaviors say otherwise. Maybe you are a fake ignostic or agnostic or whatever bullshit rationalized term you are using today.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Now if you could only figure out that dying to self thingee, you just might find God while you are still living.

I think I will listen to God instead. He is the Pope's boss, lol. I'm going to roll the same way I've been rolling which is to listen for God's quite voice and know that He uses all things for the good of those that love Him. So whether or not I hear Him correctly, I know that whatever happens, He will progress me one way or another.

wait a minute

Not to have a preference of an outcome?

You certainly have a preference. You believe and obey not because you love to believe and obey but because you want the rewards promised if you do believe and obey

The entire christian notion of the afterlife is based on fear and greed the two most powerful of human motivators

I believe the man that lives a good life with the only reward being his own knowledge that he lived a good life and expects nothing else for his good works is a better man than one who expects an eternal reward for doing what he is told

Anyone who is focusing on the destination instead of the journey didn't understand what Christ was teaching. God wants you to love Him for who He is and not what He can do for you. The message of Jesus was focused on this life, not the next.

When we speak of preferences we need to be specific about what we are talking about. For instance, do I have a preference for who will win the game. If I prefer one team over the other I will be more likely to see questionable calls a certain way. We call this subjectivity. We can only be objective when we don't have a preference for an outcome. Dying to self is how we become objective.

So, do I still have preferences? Sure, but I work on not having preferences and I have made great strides from where I began. Am I happier for it? Yes. Great peace is achieved when we can be honest about ourselves and the world around us. Things are what they are, not what we want them to be. Am I more intelligent for it? Absolutely. Being objective is the foundation of logic and reason. Anyone who is objective cannot help but to have his intelligence sharpened.

I agree that a man who lives the good life (i.e. doing the right thing the right way for the right reason) is on a good path. Doing it for God makes it better.

then tell me why all the talk of heaven, paradise and eternal rewards or the lake of fire the second death the weeping and gnashing of teeth etc.

if god really just wanted people to accept and love him for who he is there would be no need to punish those who don't

you claim to be objective but when you are biased into believing god is responsible all that exists you are not objective

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

no I said why mention it at all if the purpose of the bible is to convince people to love and accept god for who or what he is? Why set up punishment and reward?

If god only wanted people to accept him then he could simply ignore all those who don't rather than threatening them with eternal damnation

That isn't what you said at all. You wrote, "then tell me why all the talk of heaven." Other than heaven is being with God and hell is being separated from God I have no idea what heaven and hell is. You don't believe in any of it so why does it even matter to you?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You make it sound like every page in the Bible is about heaven and hell. Very little of it is. Essentially it is a how to book; how to live and how not to live.

Based on the social norms of a 1500 year old draconian society.