Atheism is the believe that something came out of nothing and we're all going nowhere

[rightwinger]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

 

[LittleNipper]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

Read the book of Ecclesiastics and then maybe with and open mind and some prayer you will get it.

 

[ding]

You keep believing that. Your prior posts say otherwise. The universe was literally created from nothing. Nothing was there, then something was there. Furthermore, the Laws of Nature were in place before something was created from nothing.

Ex nihilo nihil fit.
Your own inflation theory, except the way you pervert it, says there is no such thing as nothing.

No such thing as nothing
If we look at the most absolute nothingness that we can find and we zoom in to the smallest scales, we can infer that the emptiness is a hotbed of quantum activity! Particles are popping in and out of existence so quickly that you or I wouldn’t even say they existed. There is energy in the vacuum and we can see it (check out the Casimir effect for more information).

Something from nothing
Now let’s roll back the clock to “before” the Big Bang, as people who pose this question would call it. We know that our proto-Universe must have been very small, and was thus in the quantum regime. If, by some mechanism, these quantum fluctuations were amplified so that they became very large, then they exit the quantum mechanical regime and can become physical particles (as we would think of them). We call this mechanism Inflation (which my group believes we may have detected).

So it’s not that there was nothing and then suddenly there was something, but that the Universe was in a state that was governed purely by quantum mechanics. Inflation then amplified quantum fluctuations in our proto-Universe onto large scales that then became our Universe as we know it.

Because of quantum mechanics, there is no such thing as nothing.

It isn't my inflation theory, moron. And I have not perverted anything. I am directly quoting one of the pioneers. Even your own guitar playing / facial hair styling enthusiast says you are full of shit. You have been all over the map on this but then again that is nothing new from a flaming liberal and what we have come to expect.

Insulting me is like trying to get something from nothing.

Dude, I insult you because you have proven to be an idiot. So it is not really an insult. It is a statement of fact. Others have already proven that it is possible for matter to be created. I have shown you their explanation. Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin both believe it as it is their theory and their equations.

You have nothing but insults because you have been shown over and over that there is no such thing as nothing and even the inflation theory says there is no such thing as nothing, so you completely pervert it by pontification and then name drop, the fallacy of appeal to authority.
You act like Tramp and think no one can see through your BS.

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

 

[ding]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

That would be the materialistic view.

"A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could." Vladimir Lenin

 

[ding]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

Read the book of Ecclesiastics and then maybe with and open mind and some prayer you will get it.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[BreezeWood]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

Read the book of Ecclesiastics and then maybe with and open mind and some prayer you will get it.

.

Read the book of Ecclesiastics and then maybe with and open mind and some prayer you will get it.

you will get it ...


that was a reference they added to their book in the 4th century ... funny how you are unable to express the answer yourself.

 

[edthecynic]

Ex nihilo nihil fit.
Your own inflation theory, except the way you pervert it, says there is no such thing as nothing.

No such thing as nothing
If we look at the most absolute nothingness that we can find and we zoom in to the smallest scales, we can infer that the emptiness is a hotbed of quantum activity! Particles are popping in and out of existence so quickly that you or I wouldn’t even say they existed. There is energy in the vacuum and we can see it (check out the Casimir effect for more information).

Something from nothing
Now let’s roll back the clock to “before” the Big Bang, as people who pose this question would call it. We know that our proto-Universe must have been very small, and was thus in the quantum regime. If, by some mechanism, these quantum fluctuations were amplified so that they became very large, then they exit the quantum mechanical regime and can become physical particles (as we would think of them). We call this mechanism Inflation (which my group believes we may have detected).

So it’s not that there was nothing and then suddenly there was something, but that the Universe was in a state that was governed purely by quantum mechanics. Inflation then amplified quantum fluctuations in our proto-Universe onto large scales that then became our Universe as we know it.

Because of quantum mechanics, there is no such thing as nothing.

It isn't my inflation theory, moron. And I have not perverted anything. I am directly quoting one of the pioneers. Even your own guitar playing / facial hair styling enthusiast says you are full of shit. You have been all over the map on this but then again that is nothing new from a flaming liberal and what we have come to expect.

Insulting me is like trying to get something from nothing.

Dude, I insult you because you have proven to be an idiot. So it is not really an insult. It is a statement of fact. Others have already proven that it is possible for matter to be created. I have shown you their explanation. Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin both believe it as it is their theory and their equations.

You have nothing but insults because you have been shown over and over that there is no such thing as nothing and even the inflation theory says there is no such thing as nothing, so you completely pervert it by pontification and then name drop, the fallacy of appeal to authority.
You act like Tramp and think no one can see through your BS.

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

None of the "experts" you don't understand say something comes from nothing because there is no such thing as nothing.
I have been saying that same thing since my first post, it is your lack of understanding that is "all over the map."

 

[BreezeWood]

.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


not even their 4th century book starts from nothing ... or uses it as a beginning which might imply the universe was simply altered from an existence already established.

 

[ding]

It isn't my inflation theory, moron. And I have not perverted anything. I am directly quoting one of the pioneers. Even your own guitar playing / facial hair styling enthusiast says you are full of shit. You have been all over the map on this but then again that is nothing new from a flaming liberal and what we have come to expect.

Insulting me is like trying to get something from nothing.

Dude, I insult you because you have proven to be an idiot. So it is not really an insult. It is a statement of fact. Others have already proven that it is possible for matter to be created. I have shown you their explanation. Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin both believe it as it is their theory and their equations.

You have nothing but insults because you have been shown over and over that there is no such thing as nothing and even the inflation theory says there is no such thing as nothing, so you completely pervert it by pontification and then name drop, the fallacy of appeal to authority.
You act like Tramp and think no one can see through your BS.

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

None of the "experts" you don't understand say something comes from nothing because there is no such thing as nothing.
I have been saying that same thing since my first post, it is your lack of understanding that is "all over the map."

Let's start with your original assertions.

Space and time had a beginning, but not energy, therefore since energy IS something there always was something and there always will be something. Claiming that space and time had a beginning does not prove energy had a beginning.

The proves FLoT states that energy cannot be creates nor destroyed. That means that since energy cannot be created it always existed and since it cannot be destroyed it will always exist. There is no way around it. Energy exists independent of space and time.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

 

[edthecynic]

Insulting me is like trying to get something from nothing.

Dude, I insult you because you have proven to be an idiot. So it is not really an insult. It is a statement of fact. Others have already proven that it is possible for matter to be created. I have shown you their explanation. Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin both believe it as it is their theory and their equations.

You have nothing but insults because you have been shown over and over that there is no such thing as nothing and even the inflation theory says there is no such thing as nothing, so you completely pervert it by pontification and then name drop, the fallacy of appeal to authority.
You act like Tramp and think no one can see through your BS.

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

None of the "experts" you don't understand say something comes from nothing because there is no such thing as nothing.
I have been saying that same thing since my first post, it is your lack of understanding that is "all over the map."

Let's start with your original assertions.

Space and time had a beginning, but not energy, therefore since energy IS something there always was something and there always will be something. Claiming that space and time had a beginning does not prove energy had a beginning.

The proves FLoT states that energy cannot be creates nor destroyed. That means that since energy cannot be created it always existed and since it cannot be destroyed it will always exist. There is no way around it. Energy exists independent of space and time.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

You can't even be honest about what my first post was, so why should anyone expect you to be honest about quantum mechanics which you don't even understand. In the quantum universe there is no such thing as nothing.

My first post:

Actually, it is the bible that claims that no thing (God) created everything from nothing. Science proved that there never was nothing and there will never be nothing, the First Law of Thermodynamics AKA The Law of Conservation of Energy.

 

[rightwinger]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

Read the book of Ecclesiastics and then maybe with and open mind and some prayer you will get it.

I would rather read internet porn

At least I'd get something out of it

 

[rightwinger]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

That would be the materialistic view.

"A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could." Vladimir Lenin

Has nothing to do with Marxism

We are animals. Animals die
There is nothing wrong with that

 

[BreezeWood]

Insulting me is like trying to get something from nothing.

Dude, I insult you because you have proven to be an idiot. So it is not really an insult. It is a statement of fact. Others have already proven that it is possible for matter to be created. I have shown you their explanation. Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin both believe it as it is their theory and their equations.

You have nothing but insults because you have been shown over and over that there is no such thing as nothing and even the inflation theory says there is no such thing as nothing, so you completely pervert it by pontification and then name drop, the fallacy of appeal to authority.
You act like Tramp and think no one can see through your BS.

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

None of the "experts" you don't understand say something comes from nothing because there is no such thing as nothing.
I have been saying that same thing since my first post, it is your lack of understanding that is "all over the map."

Let's start with your original assertions.

Space and time had a beginning, but not energy, therefore since energy IS something there always was something and there always will be something. Claiming that space and time had a beginning does not prove energy had a beginning.

The proves FLoT states that energy cannot be creates nor destroyed. That means that since energy cannot be created it always existed and since it cannot be destroyed it will always exist. There is no way around it. Energy exists independent of space and time.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

.
spamming a posters signature should be prohibited ...

 

[ding]

Dude, I insult you because you have proven to be an idiot. So it is not really an insult. It is a statement of fact. Others have already proven that it is possible for matter to be created. I have shown you their explanation. Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin both believe it as it is their theory and their equations.

You have nothing but insults because you have been shown over and over that there is no such thing as nothing and even the inflation theory says there is no such thing as nothing, so you completely pervert it by pontification and then name drop, the fallacy of appeal to authority.
You act like Tramp and think no one can see through your BS.

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

None of the "experts" you don't understand say something comes from nothing because there is no such thing as nothing.
I have been saying that same thing since my first post, it is your lack of understanding that is "all over the map."

Let's start with your original assertions.

Space and time had a beginning, but not energy, therefore since energy IS something there always was something and there always will be something. Claiming that space and time had a beginning does not prove energy had a beginning.

The proves FLoT states that energy cannot be creates nor destroyed. That means that since energy cannot be created it always existed and since it cannot be destroyed it will always exist. There is no way around it. Energy exists independent of space and time.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

You can't even be honest about what my first post was, so why should anyone expect you to be honest about quantum mechanics which you don't even understand. In the quantum universe there is no such thing as nothing.

My first post:

Actually, it is the bible that claims that no thing (God) created everything from nothing. Science proved that there never was nothing and there will never be nothing, the First Law of Thermodynamics AKA The Law of Conservation of Energy.

Even better. The inflation model shows it did. Just like the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics shows that it is impossible to have a cyclical universe with no beginning.

 

[BreezeWood]

You have nothing but insults because you have been shown over and over that there is no such thing as nothing and even the inflation theory says there is no such thing as nothing, so you completely pervert it by pontification and then name drop, the fallacy of appeal to authority.
You act like Tramp and think no one can see through your BS.

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

None of the "experts" you don't understand say something comes from nothing because there is no such thing as nothing.
I have been saying that same thing since my first post, it is your lack of understanding that is "all over the map."

Let's start with your original assertions.

Space and time had a beginning, but not energy, therefore since energy IS something there always was something and there always will be something. Claiming that space and time had a beginning does not prove energy had a beginning.

The proves FLoT states that energy cannot be creates nor destroyed. That means that since energy cannot be created it always existed and since it cannot be destroyed it will always exist. There is no way around it. Energy exists independent of space and time.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

You can't even be honest about what my first post was, so why should anyone expect you to be honest about quantum mechanics which you don't even understand. In the quantum universe there is no such thing as nothing.

My first post:

Actually, it is the bible that claims that no thing (God) created everything from nothing. Science proved that there never was nothing and there will never be nothing, the First Law of Thermodynamics AKA The Law of Conservation of Energy.

Even better. The inflation model shows it did. Just like the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics shows that it is impossible to have a cyclical universe with no beginning.

.

Just like the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics shows that it is impossible to have a cyclical universe with no beginning.

the cyclical universe precludes there being a beginning. no differently than having always been and will always be. in a vacuum.

where is the beginning of a sphere ...

 

[edthecynic]

You have nothing but insults because you have been shown over and over that there is no such thing as nothing and even the inflation theory says there is no such thing as nothing, so you completely pervert it by pontification and then name drop, the fallacy of appeal to authority.
You act like Tramp and think no one can see through your BS.

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

None of the "experts" you don't understand say something comes from nothing because there is no such thing as nothing.
I have been saying that same thing since my first post, it is your lack of understanding that is "all over the map."

Let's start with your original assertions.

Space and time had a beginning, but not energy, therefore since energy IS something there always was something and there always will be something. Claiming that space and time had a beginning does not prove energy had a beginning.

The proves FLoT states that energy cannot be creates nor destroyed. That means that since energy cannot be created it always existed and since it cannot be destroyed it will always exist. There is no way around it. Energy exists independent of space and time.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

You can't even be honest about what my first post was, so why should anyone expect you to be honest about quantum mechanics which you don't even understand. In the quantum universe there is no such thing as nothing.

My first post:

Actually, it is the bible that claims that no thing (God) created everything from nothing. Science proved that there never was nothing and there will never be nothing, the First Law of Thermodynamics AKA The Law of Conservation of Energy.

Even better. The inflation model shows it did. Just like the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics shows that it is impossible to have a cyclical universe with no beginning.

Already debunked at least a dozen times in this thread.

 

[ding]

No. I have been stating opinions backed up by reason and subject matter experts. You have been all over the map. I know everything I need to know about you from your behaviors.

None of the "experts" you don't understand say something comes from nothing because there is no such thing as nothing.
I have been saying that same thing since my first post, it is your lack of understanding that is "all over the map."

Let's start with your original assertions.

Space and time had a beginning, but not energy, therefore since energy IS something there always was something and there always will be something. Claiming that space and time had a beginning does not prove energy had a beginning.

The proves FLoT states that energy cannot be creates nor destroyed. That means that since energy cannot be created it always existed and since it cannot be destroyed it will always exist. There is no way around it. Energy exists independent of space and time.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

You can't even be honest about what my first post was, so why should anyone expect you to be honest about quantum mechanics which you don't even understand. In the quantum universe there is no such thing as nothing.

My first post:

Actually, it is the bible that claims that no thing (God) created everything from nothing. Science proved that there never was nothing and there will never be nothing, the First Law of Thermodynamics AKA The Law of Conservation of Energy.

Even better. The inflation model shows it did. Just like the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics shows that it is impossible to have a cyclical universe with no beginning.

Already debunked at least a dozen times in this thread.

Be sure to let Guth know about that, lol.

 

[ding]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

That would be the materialistic view.

"A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could." Vladimir Lenin

Has nothing to do with Marxism

We are animals. Animals die
There is nothing wrong with that

Marxists disagree with you. They believe communism is based on materialism and that materialism is based on atheism and the deification of man. It proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts.

 

[rightwinger]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

That would be the materialistic view.

"A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could." Vladimir Lenin

Has nothing to do with Marxism

We are animals. Animals die
There is nothing wrong with that

Marxists disagree with you. They believe communism is based on materialism and that materialism is based on atheism and the deification of man. It proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts.

Even Marxists are bright enough to call bullshit on religion

 

[ding]

Something came out of other stuff


We are going nowhere. We die and it is over

That would be the materialistic view.

"A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could." Vladimir Lenin

Has nothing to do with Marxism

We are animals. Animals die
There is nothing wrong with that

Marxists disagree with you. They believe communism is based on materialism and that materialism is based on atheism and the deification of man. It proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts.

Even Marxists are bright enough to call bullshit on religion

You should know, you are one.