Zone1 Assisted dying bill passes in the Lords. Will soon become law

[MarathonMike]

No matter how altruistic assisted dying starts out. It always ends up in the same place, holding people down for the death shot while they kick and scream, fighting for their lives.

Really? They don't put the person under with anesthesia first?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Really? They don't put the person under with anesthesia first?

No. In the Netherlands an 80 year old woman fought so hard two doctors asked her family to help hold her down.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

It certainly happened in the Netherlands where an 80 year old woman fought against her death so furiously the doctor asked her family to hold her down.

Dutch probe 'appalling' euthanasia of dementia patient

In a rare series of moves, Dutch authorities are investigating whether doctors may have committed crimes in five euthanasia cases, including the deaths of two women with advanced Alzheimer's disease.

apnews.com

Assisted suicide always starts out with the very best of intentions, and ends in murder.

You cite one case that made the papers. It is certainly something that needs monitoring and safeguards need to be built in. But to claim this incident is common place is a stretch.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

You cite one case that made the papers. It is certainly something that needs monitoring and safeguards need to be built in. But to claim this incident is common place is a stretch.

The fact that it exists at all is disgraceful.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The fact that it exists at all is disgraceful.

Its horrific. But I dont see it as symbolic of the whole movement.

 

[martybegan]

I believe that the mentally ill are excluded from this bill on the grounds that they cannot give informed consrnt,

Physically healthy Dutch woman Zoraya ter Beek, 29, granted euthanasia approval over her severe depression

And yet here is an example of letting the mentally ill kill themselves legally.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Its horrific. But I dont see it as symbolic of the whole mobement.

It is not symbolic. Muslim violence against the native British is emblematic of the subjugation of the British people.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

It is not symbolic. Muslim violence against the native British is emblematic of the subjugation of the British people.

Not really on topic but I value your input,

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Physically healthy Dutch woman Zoraya ter Beek, 29, granted euthanasia approval over her severe depression

And yet here is an example of letting the mentally ill kill themselves legally.

I cant read the article. But the UK proposal is that only those in sound mind can sign up for it. I dont think this lady would be allowed.

 

[martybegan]

I cant read the article. But the UK proposal is that only those in sound mind can sign up for it. I dont think this lady would be allowed.

Yet.

The problem with progressives is they always progress.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Yet.

The problem with progressives is they always progress.

But that is like saying we cant ban murder because there will always be murder. Nonsense.

 

[martybegan]

But that is like saying we cant ban murder because there will always be murder. Nonsense.

No, because your side has shown your incremental approach to changing things, as well as an inability to admit when things have gone too far.

You can't be trusted to say "we're stopping here, we promise"

 

[DGS49]

A point of U.S. Civics is appropriate here: The Federal Government has no power over this issue. Any relevant law, to be Constitutional, would have to be passed by one of the States.

I am personally of two minds about this issue. My Church teaches that suicide is always sinful. Until recently, someone who offed himself could not be buried in a Catholic cemetery. Now they give the stiff the benefit of the doubt, assuming that he was not of sound mind, or that he might have changed his mind between the time he did the act and it came to fruition (e.g., jumped off a bridge, or similar).

I had an interesting day in college once. In the morning my Philosophy teacher told us that everyone should ponder, from time to time, whether our life was worth living - whether ending it might make sense, and in the afternoon my Psychology teacher told us that anyone even considering suicide should immediately see a shrink.

I think suicide would be a logical choice for a lot of people. If you are constantly in pain or If or you spend most of your time going from one doctor's office to another, what kind of a life is that? I hope that if I ever get to that stage I have the courage and good sense to end my life, presumably with minimal inconvenience to others.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I cant read the article. But the UK proposal is that only those in sound mind can sign up for it. I dont think this lady would be allowed.

Oh well, that argument is easily disposed of and has been disposed of. If the individual was in sound mind, he or she would naturally accept euthanasia. Therefore we will assume the soundness of mind and kill the poor sot.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Of all the arguments over conditions, the ones both for and against euthanasia are the most difficult. On the one hand are people truly suffering unbearably. It is unfair to make these people suffer needlessly and worse, to inflict watching that suffering on their families.

On the other is an overarching government anxious to weild power over the lives of those lesser beings, the citizens,that are governed. If a girl says "I'd rather die than wear that" there is a friendly government agent to say 'Right this way". The impetus is not to save lives, but to take them. This is harmful in a number of ways. The cheapness of killing certainly makes more economic sense than investing in expensive cures for deadly diseases. The utility of killing is easily expanded, especially when coupled with "If he was in his right mind, he'd rather die than go through this." That leads to wholesale slaughter.

Of course we should not allow assisted suicide. We aren't good enough a people to be trusted with the lives of others.

 

[Cassandro]

"Assisted suicide" is an oxymoron.

 

[ice man]

I have never really dug into this. The stories I hear are that assisting dying exists on a larger scale, but it's just more low key. But I never really understood that. The assisted suicide procedure is more deliberate and direct. I am guessing insurance companies favor it. Their actuaries can probably tell them specifically how much money they will save if legislation like this passes.

 

[Foxfyre]

Let me put this to you. My wife's mother was a permanently institutionalized manic depressive patient. My wife was diagnosed with depression, although, I could see the highs, where the doctors who weren't around her regularly, missed them and thus they didn't add "manic" to the diagnosis. She died many years ago, not by suicide. My daughter was diagnosed with depression. She has no "highs." So, she like her mother, has to be on medication. It's genetic. The medication keeps her "in balance" and she does pretty well with the meds. Just because someone suffers from depression is no reason to toss their life away. Always seek a less than life-ending solution where possible.

I struggle with the pros and cons of assisted dying. I don't want to live when there is constant terrible intractable pain, mental or physical, and/or no quality of life left for me and to have a painless and loving way out is attractive to me. But there is a fine line in there somewhere between a right to die and what becomes a duty to die.

I can't find any justification for a moral society to condone people who feel they have a duty to die, either because they think they are failures or evil or because they feel like a burden on their families.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I struggle with the pros and cons of assisted dying. I don't want to live when there is constant terrible intractable pain, mental or physical, and/or no quality of life left for me and to have a painless and loving way out is attractive to me. But there is a fine line in there somewhere between a right to die and what becomes a duty to die.

I can't find any justification for a moral society to condone people who feel they have a duty to die, either because they think they are failures or evil or because they feel like a burden on their families.

Everyone has their own boundaries.. When I was in hospital I saw a guy shittiiing in a pan and having nurses wipe his arse afterwards. I dont think I could cope with that.
This bill will be amended as different voices weigh in.
I dont think it will be a one size fits all.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Of all the arguments over conditions, the ones both for and against euthanasia are the most difficult. On the one hand are people truly suffering unbearably. It is unfair to make these people suffer needlessly and worse, to inflict watching that suffering on their families.

On the other is an overarching government anxious to weild power over the lives of those lesser beings, the citizens,that are governed. If a girl says "I'd rather die than wear that" there is a friendly government agent to say 'Right this way". The impetus is not to save lives, but to take them. This is harmful in a number of ways. The cheapness of killing certainly makes more economic sense than investing in expensive cures for deadly diseases. The utility of killing is easily expanded, especially when coupled with "If he was in his right mind, he'd rather die than go through this." That leads to wholesale slaughter.

Of course we should not allow assisted suicide. We aren't good enough a people to be trusted with the lives of others.

I think you allow your paranoia to cloud your judgement.
In the past few weeks several expensive medecines have been invented including intelligent insulin.
And at the end of it you make a strong case against capital punishment.