As America retreats and divides, China & Germany look to fill the void


American leadership?? Excuse me while I stand over here and LMAO. I'd be glad to see some other country take up the cost of babysitting the world.

The only time they want America to lead if they need money or someone to fight a war for them. Then we are their best friend. Other than that they hate us.

Let Germany and China babysit the rest of the world. I guarantee you they will get sick of paying them and fighting for them.

As far as I'm concerned the rest of the world can take care of itself, or not.

China will rape the resources like they have been doing, so China will gladly police the world and those like Mac will blame Trump for China bad behavior...

Fact is Trump actually brought out the reality of what the World has been doing and those like Mac hate what he is seeing because the reality is America has held many prosperous and poor nations up while never truly benefiting from it while those like China rapes the entire world and plays victim in the eyes of Mac!

Reality sucks and there is no options with China that will haunt them in their dream of being the lone Super Power of this World...

Mac is upset that many do see China for what it is and many understand that this has been coming for decades while Mac and his kind stuck their heads in the sand...

The U.S. had carried the World long enough and what the U.S. failed to do is teach the World to Fish and instead allowed it to suckle off the Tax Payer dime.

So as much as I dislike Trump he did shine the light on the fact something has to be done but those like Mac want it back the way it was while not understanding that will never happen in our lifetime!
Tramp and his cohorts are the cause of the rise of China.

I never remember Russia involved in our elections till Tramp invited them in , in 2016.

You're so full of shit. Trump didn't invite the Russians in and if you had an ounce of intelligence you would know Putin Hates Hitlery and would have done what he did no matter who her opponent was.

Oh and just in case you forgot. Mueller cleared Trump.

Carry on meathead.
 
So some Trumpsters are very cranky about this thread, some agree with it.

But all of them support Trump's decisions to put us where we are.

You mean where Bush, Obama and Trump...

Of course not because you believe China evil ways started on January 21st 2017 and before that China was a sweet and innocent country...

Also Europe should pay it own way and the U.S. has carried the World long enough!
Do you EVER not communicate in straw man arguments?

Anything you disagree with is written by a Trumpster and is Straw Man, so Mac tell the board what you would do to stop China growth that has only been happening since January 21st 2017 ( according to you ) and please do tell how sitting and negotiating will stop them?
Holy crap. When did I say "China growth that has only been happening since January 21st 2017"? And THEN you say "(according to you)"

You just keep doing it. What in the world is wrong with you? Are you this blatantly dishonest in real life?
You sure are seeing you keep on proclaiming anyone that point out the mistakes in your opinion as being a Trumpster and just doing a Straw Man argument!

You also will not acknowledge the past unless attaching Straw Man to it...

So which one of us is be dishonest here?
 
So Mac let discuss how the World should handle China?
You really have to ask? With communication, collaboration and innovation, and the strength that comes from that.

That would NORMALLY be the way we would handle it, but we no longer possess those qualities or habits. We refuse to collaborate and innovate with EACH OTHER, let alone with OTHER COUNTRIES. Trumpism has made sure of that by barricading itself within its own alternate informational universe and telling everyone else to fuck off.

So, given how far we have fallen, to answer your question, I don't know. World leadership is now up for grabs.

Wow!

So China rise is because of Trump?

China was an issue before Trump and for anyone to forget the fact China and the U.S. were at each other throats over the South China Sea and our Military involvement with Japan and South Korea during Obama years, well Mac you should look at past articles and realize China has never played nice before Trump and talking to them has gotten us what?
Ah, a straw man. Yes, China has been preparing for this moment for decades, and here it is. Congrats.

Straw man?

No, fact is you wrote your opinion with pulling articles while leaving out the fact that the U.S. for over a decade has been dealing with a China expansion into regions like Africa, South America, Central America, Mexico, Asia and the Middle East.

You act like we haven’t attempted to negotiate with China before and yet we have and it has failed, so Mac what is your solution?

Negotiations and just hope China honor their side of the deal?

The failure to negotiate and sign a the Trans Pacific Partnership is what really emboldened China.

That was the failure.
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.

Good Catch...

This is where the main global struggle is going on... China and Russia have US off the global stage at the moment and are trying to make hay.
Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) was China's biggest worry and they have seemed to put the brakes on that while Trump was in office. That is the big stick to beat China.


The trade deficit is complete Red Herring to befuddle the ignorant. I am surprised it has fooled so many.

China gives a crap about one thing, China. There only interest in US, is as a threat to them. The leadership of China know full well that there biggest fear is the Chinese people (ditto for Russia), a weak US makes them look strong.
China is smiling politely at Trump and taking advantage of his ineptness. This is brutal.

I hope Europe can do something here. Even if Biden wins, it would take some time to reverse this damage.
 
So Mac let discuss how the World should handle China?
You really have to ask? With communication, collaboration and innovation, and the strength that comes from that.

That would NORMALLY be the way we would handle it, but we no longer possess those qualities or habits. We refuse to collaborate and innovate with EACH OTHER, let alone with OTHER COUNTRIES. Trumpism has made sure of that by barricading itself within its own alternate informational universe and telling everyone else to fuck off.

So, given how far we have fallen, to answer your question, I don't know. World leadership is now up for grabs.

Wow!

So China rise is because of Trump?

China was an issue before Trump and for anyone to forget the fact China and the U.S. were at each other throats over the South China Sea and our Military involvement with Japan and South Korea during Obama years, well Mac you should look at past articles and realize China has never played nice before Trump and talking to them has gotten us what?
Ah, a straw man. Yes, China has been preparing for this moment for decades, and here it is. Congrats.

Straw man?

No, fact is you wrote your opinion with pulling articles while leaving out the fact that the U.S. for over a decade has been dealing with a China expansion into regions like Africa, South America, Central America, Mexico, Asia and the Middle East.

You act like we haven’t attempted to negotiate with China before and yet we have and it has failed, so Mac what is your solution?

Negotiations and just hope China honor their side of the deal?

The failure to negotiate and sign a the Trans Pacific Partnership is what really emboldened China.

That was the failure.

Not a failure on our part. TPP was terrible.
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.

Good Catch...

This is where the main global struggle is going on... China and Russia have US off the global stage at the moment and are trying to make hay.
Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) was China's biggest worry and they have seemed to put the brakes on that while Trump was in office. That is the big stick to beat China.


The trade deficit is complete Red Herring to befuddle the ignorant. I am surprised it has fooled so many.

China gives a crap about one thing, China. There only interest in US, is as a threat to them. The leadership of China know full well that there biggest fear is the Chinese people (ditto for Russia), a weak US makes them look strong.
China is smiling politely at Trump and taking advantage of his ineptness. This is brutal.

I hope Europe can do something here. Even if Biden wins, it would take some time to reverse this damage.
China has been doing this before Trump and you keep on claiming Trump is the only one that failed and that is why I wrote what I wrote about January 21st 2017 because you deny the past and reality!

China was already in parts of the World like Iran, Africa, South America and so on long before Trump, so until you realize this the fact is you are in denial and nothing the U.S. does will slow China unless it is economic war!
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.

Good Catch...

This is where the main global struggle is going on... China and Russia have US off the global stage at the moment and are trying to make hay.
Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) was China's biggest worry and they have seemed to put the brakes on that while Trump was in office. That is the big stick to beat China.


The trade deficit is complete Red Herring to befuddle the ignorant. I am surprised it has fooled so many.

China gives a crap about one thing, China. There only interest in US, is as a threat to them. The leadership of China know full well that there biggest fear is the Chinese people (ditto for Russia), a weak US makes them look strong.
China is smiling politely at Trump and taking advantage of his ineptness. This is brutal.

I hope Europe can do something here. Even if Biden wins, it would take some time to reverse this damage.
China has been doing this before Trump and you keep on claiming Trump is the only one that failed and that is why I wrote what I wrote about January 21st 2017 because you deny the past and reality!

China was already in parts of the World like Iran, Africa, South America and so on long before Trump, so until you realize this the fact is you are in denial and nothing the U.S. does will slow China unless it is economic war!

Very well put and spot on. China has its fingers in pies all over the world and most folks never realized how widespread they are and how much they want spread their influence around the world.

And its been going on for decades. Long before Trump was elected.
 
Let be clear no one is going to be able to stop China and Trump is not even the main reason why it ( China ) is as big as it is!

Germany is not strong enough to face China and neither is Europe as a whole and only a fool believe they can!

The U.S. after many years of ignoring the growing threat of China with Russia backing can not longer on it own fight China even in a economic war!

So let be clear Mac your crying about Trump failures with China is hilarious because you ignore the many other failures since Nixon!
 
So then let's cut all trade with China, make everything here for a much higher wage than over there. We don't need cheap labor.
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.

Good Catch...

This is where the main global struggle is going on... China and Russia have US off the global stage at the moment and are trying to make hay.
Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) was China's biggest worry and they have seemed to put the brakes on that while Trump was in office. That is the big stick to beat China.


The trade deficit is complete Red Herring to befuddle the ignorant. I am surprised it has fooled so many.

China gives a crap about one thing, China. There only interest in US, is as a threat to them. The leadership of China know full well that there biggest fear is the Chinese people (ditto for Russia), a weak US makes them look strong.
China is smiling politely at Trump and taking advantage of his ineptness. This is brutal.

I hope Europe can do something here. Even if Biden wins, it would take some time to reverse this damage.

Agreed it won't be over night...

It will take a few years to get TPP signed... It would effectively gang up the Pacific Countries on China (also India and Brazil, just saying)....

Biggest obstacle is US lobbyists. US runs the country for lobbyists while the countries they are negotiating with have severely reduced lobbying of government. There is no money (these are bribes in other countries), fundraising strictly individual and is very limited(no pooling). The first world countries (Aus, Japan, South Korea) run there countries for their people not for fundraisers.

-------------

Then would come the next big negotiation EU - TPP talks.... I think this will be far tougher as US lobbyists on things like dairy, beef, sugar (and there products) have weakened substantially the health standards that are in EU. EU is not going to have chlorinated chicken and drugged up beef.
But I say they will agree on a lot of other things for now.
 
So then let's cut all trade with China, make everything here for a much higher wage than over there. We don't need cheap labor.

I doubt that would happen. China owns loads of our debt and their economy is tied to our economy because of it.
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.

Good Catch...

This is where the main global struggle is going on... China and Russia have US off the global stage at the moment and are trying to make hay.
Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) was China's biggest worry and they have seemed to put the brakes on that while Trump was in office. That is the big stick to beat China.


The trade deficit is complete Red Herring to befuddle the ignorant. I am surprised it has fooled so many.

China gives a crap about one thing, China. There only interest in US, is as a threat to them. The leadership of China know full well that there biggest fear is the Chinese people (ditto for Russia), a weak US makes them look strong.
China is smiling politely at Trump and taking advantage of his ineptness. This is brutal.

I hope Europe can do something here. Even if Biden wins, it would take some time to reverse this damage.

Agreed it won't be over night...

It will take a few years to get TPP signed... It would effectively gang up the Pacific Countries on China (also India and Brazil, just saying)....

Biggest obstacle is US lobbyists. US runs the country for lobbyists while the countries they are negotiating with have severely reduced lobbying of government. There is no money (these are bribes in other countries), fundraising strictly individual and is very limited(no pooling). The first world countries (Aus, Japan, South Korea) run there countries for their people not for fundraisers.

-------------

Then would come the next big negotiation EU - TPP talks.... I think this will be far tougher as US lobbyists on things like dairy, beef, sugar (and there products) have weakened substantially the health standards that are in EU. EU is not going to have chlorinated chicken and drugged up beef.
But I say they will agree on a lot of other things for now.
Hopefully one immediate result would be that the world would realize we have regained our senses.

The rest of the world is no more excited with the notion of China having more power than we are. And we've just handed it to them.
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.
China owns the Bidens.

Quid Pro Joe still hasn't explained why Hunter was on Air Force 2 in China. Why not?
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.

You really think China gives a rats ass about being carbon neutral?
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.

You really think China gives a rats ass about being carbon neutral?
If, unlike us, it is looking to the future and sees that being a world leader in renewable energy provides it with economic, business, geopolitical and/or other advantages, yes, absolutely. Obviously.
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.

You really think China gives a rats ass about being carbon neutral?
If, unlike us, it is looking to the future and sees that being a world leader in renewable energy provides it with economic, business, geopolitical and/or other advantages, yes, absolutely. Obviously.

They might in their borders but they can give a rat ass about the destruction they do to regions in Africa and those like you have ignored this all this time...

Also countries in Asia could be lead by Australia, South Korea and Japan if the want to counter China but China is willing to spend in countries like the Philippines which has a narcissist like Trump running it country, so it is impossible to slow China there and even if we wish we could!

Also Mac the solution is building up our part of the World with better trade agreements with Canada, Mexico, Central America, South America and Island Nations in our part of the World so we can get China and Russia influence out of our part of the World!

But you refuse to acknowledge that this monster China is was because of former administrations that failed to do what should have been!

Until you acknowledge this you will stay clueless while blaming Trump for everyone failure to stop China!
 
If China did not have the massive trade surplus from US, over the last several decades and currently and into the foreseeable future, they would not be in the position to threaten US, or the world.

The first step seems obvious.

Yeah, people like you blob shouldn't have their stuff made in China. People like you should stop worshiping people who have their stuff made in China.
 
Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.
yea germany is the best until someone needs a military....lets see them send their troops somewhere to stop something...
 

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