As America retreats and divides, China & Germany look to fill the void

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Mac1958

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So Mac let discuss how the World should handle China?
You really have to ask? With communication, collaboration and innovation, and the strength that comes from that.

That would NORMALLY be the way we would handle it, but we no longer possess those qualities or habits. We refuse to collaborate and innovate with EACH OTHER, let alone with OTHER COUNTRIES. Trumpism has made sure of that by barricading itself within its own alternate informational universe and telling everyone else to fuck off.

So, given how far we have fallen, to answer your question, I don't know. World leadership is now up for grabs.
Wow!

So China rise is because of Trump?

China was an issue before Trump and for anyone to forget the fact China and the U.S. were at each other throats over the South China Sea and our Military involvement with Japan and South Korea during Obama years, well Mac you should look at past articles and realize China has never played nice before Trump and talking to them has gotten us what?
Ah, a straw man. Yes, China has been preparing for this moment for decades, and here it is. Congrats.
Straw man?

No, fact is you wrote your opinion with pulling articles while leaving out the fact that the U.S. for over a decade has been dealing with a China expansion into regions like Africa, South America, Central America, Mexico, Asia and the Middle East.

You act like we haven’t attempted to negotiate with China before and yet we have and it has failed, so Mac what is your solution?

Negotiations and just hope China honor their side of the deal?
I've answered your questions clearly. Your agreement or your approval are not required.

I notice you have twice now used the term "you act like", trying to put words in my mouth. Yes, that's known as a "straw man", and I don't have patience for that kind of intellectual dishonesty.

Your guy is in charge. Follow and defend him. Enjoy.
 

Mad_Jack_Flint

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Also Mac how do you deal with a Super Power for over a decade has done everything to undermine the U.S. from flooding our streets with illegal drugs to manipulating our currency?
 

Votto

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Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.
Wait...........wut?

Clinton, Biden, and the rest of the Chinese sell outs led the world? How many millions did Hunter Biden make from them again as he worked with Chinese corporations to join the US as an economic power house?

And who was responsible for Covid? Being a partisan shill like yourself, I thought it was Trump and not China itself as China stopped travel to China to help stop the spread of Covid, but allowed its citizens to travel abroad to spread the plague. When Trump criticizes China then all of the Chinese loving Progressives like Mac come out of the wood work like Lebron as they defend how China has handled its oppression of Hong Kong while pretending to be about human rights and BLM? And when Trump stopped travel from China Biden and the rest of the Dims called him xenophobic for doing it?

Meanwhile, partisan shill democrats like Mac refuse to utter the words, Abraham Accord, a peace deal that effectively helps bring peace to the Middle East without the the Hamas led PLO, which has stopped peace from coming there for generations. Incidentally, this is something that the Obama administration swore up and down could never happen.

It is understandable why someone like Mac may not know about it since he dedicates himself to a steady diet of CNN.
 
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Mac1958

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Also Mac how do you deal with a Super Power for over a decade has done everything to undermine the U.S. from flooding our streets with illegal drugs to manipulating our currency?
When I talked about communication, collaboration and innovation, I was talking about with other countries, such as those in Europe, not China.

And here's my completely independent and original idea to fundamentally change our trade relationship with China. Line 4 of my sig:

4. >>> Band Aids, Borders, Burritos & Bejing
 

Correll

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Maybe the rest of the world, if they wanted our leadership so much, should have been more diplomatic about the way they expressed their disapproval of our voters choice.


AND been more understanding when we wanted out interests served a little better.
 
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Mac1958

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Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.
Wait...........wut?

Clinton, Biden, and the rest of the Chinese sell outs led the world? How many millions did Hunter Biden make from them again as he worked with Chinese corporations to join the US as an economic power house?

And who was responsible for Covid? Being a partisan shill like yourself, I thought it was Trump and not China itself as China stopped travel to China to help stop the spread of Covid, but allowed its citizens to travel abroad to spread the plague. When Trump criticizes China then all of the Chinese loving Progressives like Mac come out of the wood work like Lebron as they defend how China has handled its oppression of Hong Kong while pretending to be about human rights and BLM? And when Trump stopped travel from China Biden and the rest of the Dims called him xenophobic for doing it?

Meanwhile, partisan shill democrats like Mac refuse to utter the words, Abraham Accord, a peace deal that effectively helps bring peace to the Middle East without the the Hamas led PLO, which has stopped peace from coming there for generations. Incidentally, this is something that the Obama administration swore up and down could never happen.

It is understandable why someone like Mac may not know about it since he dedicates himself to a steady diet of CNN.
It's Trump's time. It's your time. Enjoy.
 
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Mac1958

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Maybe the rest of the world, if they wanted our leadership so much, should have been more diplomatic about the way they expressed their disapproval of our voters choice. AND been more understanding when we wanted out interests served a little better.
There ya go. And now we have what we have. Enjoy.
 

Votto

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No President has been a better friend to our adversaries than Donald Trump. Under his leadership, US standing around the world has plummeted while those of Putin and Xi have ascended. No wonder Putin is working so hard to see Trump is re-elected. Another four years of Trump will see the USA join the ranks of Brazil. Xi and Putin are literally laughing at us.

Funny how when Trump ever criticizes China or calls Covid the Chinese virus Progressives line up to condemn him for doing so.
 

Votto

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Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.
Wait...........wut?

Clinton, Biden, and the rest of the Chinese sell outs led the world? How many millions did Hunter Biden make from them again as he worked with Chinese corporations to join the US as an economic power house?

And who was responsible for Covid? Being a partisan shill like yourself, I thought it was Trump and not China itself as China stopped travel to China to help stop the spread of Covid, but allowed its citizens to travel abroad to spread the plague. When Trump criticizes China then all of the Chinese loving Progressives like Mac come out of the wood work like Lebron as they defend how China has handled its oppression of Hong Kong while pretending to be about human rights and BLM? And when Trump stopped travel from China Biden and the rest of the Dims called him xenophobic for doing it?

Meanwhile, partisan shill democrats like Mac refuse to utter the words, Abraham Accord, a peace deal that effectively helps bring peace to the Middle East without the the Hamas led PLO, which has stopped peace from coming there for generations. Incidentally, this is something that the Obama administration swore up and down could never happen.

It is understandable why someone like Mac may not know about it since he dedicates himself to a steady diet of CNN.
It's Trump's time. It's your time. Enjoy.
Will you ever respond to one of my retorts that either makes sense or refutes what I have said?

Ever?
 

Correll

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So Mac let discuss how the World should handle China?
You really have to ask? With communication, collaboration and innovation, and the strength that comes from that.

That would NORMALLY be the way we would handle it, but we no longer possess those qualities or habits. We refuse to collaborate and innovate with EACH OTHER, let alone with OTHER COUNTRIES. Trumpism has made sure of that by barricading itself within its own alternate informational universe and telling everyone else to fuck off.

So, given how far we have fallen, to answer your question, I don't know. World leadership is now up for grabs, and it's playing out right in front of us.

How can we collaborate with each other, when half the country is ready to disavow you if you don't think that men should be allowed to compete in women's sports?

Hey, remember when Newt Gingrich wanted to make curing Diabetes a Manhattan level national goal?

Good thing he got taken down. Now he spends his time doing the talk show circuit.

Much more productive.
 
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Mac1958

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Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.
Wait...........wut?

Clinton, Biden, and the rest of the Chinese sell outs led the world? How many millions did Hunter Biden make from them again as he worked with Chinese corporations to join the US as an economic power house?

And who was responsible for Covid? Being a partisan shill like yourself, I thought it was Trump and not China itself as China stopped travel to China to help stop the spread of Covid, but allowed its citizens to travel abroad to spread the plague. When Trump criticizes China then all of the Chinese loving Progressives like Mac come out of the wood work like Lebron as they defend how China has handled its oppression of Hong Kong while pretending to be about human rights and BLM? And when Trump stopped travel from China Biden and the rest of the Dims called him xenophobic for doing it?

Meanwhile, partisan shill democrats like Mac refuse to utter the words, Abraham Accord, a peace deal that effectively helps bring peace to the Middle East without the the Hamas led PLO, which has stopped peace from coming there for generations. Incidentally, this is something that the Obama administration swore up and down could never happen.

It is understandable why someone like Mac may not know about it since he dedicates himself to a steady diet of CNN.
It's Trump's time. It's your time. Enjoy.
Will you ever respond to one of my retorts that either makes sense or refutes what I have said?

Ever?
Only if they address my point instead of trying to deflect and change the subject.

Oh, and if I read them. I don't read a majority of Trumpster talk radio talking points. Boring.
 

Mad_Jack_Flint

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So Mac let discuss how the World should handle China?
You really have to ask? With communication, collaboration and innovation, and the strength that comes from that.

That would NORMALLY be the way we would handle it, but we no longer possess those qualities or habits. We refuse to collaborate and innovate with EACH OTHER, let alone with OTHER COUNTRIES. Trumpism has made sure of that by barricading itself within its own alternate informational universe and telling everyone else to fuck off.

So, given how far we have fallen, to answer your question, I don't know. World leadership is now up for grabs.
Wow!

So China rise is because of Trump?

China was an issue before Trump and for anyone to forget the fact China and the U.S. were at each other throats over the South China Sea and our Military involvement with Japan and South Korea during Obama years, well Mac you should look at past articles and realize China has never played nice before Trump and talking to them has gotten us what?
Ah, a straw man. Yes, China has been preparing for this moment for decades, and here it is. Congrats.
Straw man?

No, fact is you wrote your opinion with pulling articles while leaving out the fact that the U.S. for over a decade has been dealing with a China expansion into regions like Africa, South America, Central America, Mexico, Asia and the Middle East.

You act like we haven’t attempted to negotiate with China before and yet we have and it has failed, so Mac what is your solution?

Negotiations and just hope China honor their side of the deal?
I've answered your questions clearly. Your agreement or your approval are not required.

I notice you have twice now used the term "you act like", trying to put words in my mouth. Yes, that's known as a "straw man", and I don't have patience for that kind of intellectual dishonesty.

Your guy is in charge. Follow and defend him. Enjoy.
My guy?

I didn’t know Johnson won in 2016?

No Mac your opinion is we should just talk to them and roll over and just let China manipulate us while pretending they are doing nothing!

Fact is you have no answers at all and blame Trump for everyone failure to slow China and when it is pointed out you are full of shit you then start telling other posters who they voted for...

So I do apologize your Queen did not win in 2016 but she would have failed just like Trump, Obama and Bush did but hey let forget Obama and Bush failures and let just say Trump is the cause of China growth...

I mean yeah let forget the disrespect China showed Obama or the fact they manipulate our currency and have been for a decade and let just talk to them because hey China listens very well...

I mean they haunted their expansion in the South China Sea for that oil when Obama was President, wait they didn’t!

Shit, well they stopped their expansion around the world when Obama was President, oh shit they didn’t?

What the hell then Mac, well we will do the Mac way and just talk to them and if they refuse to listen, well hell Mac you can blame Trump for your miserable failure you call a life then!

Fact is no matter if it is Trump or Biden the reality is China does not give a fuck about what the U.S. or the World want and will do as it pleases or until a full war breaks out...
 
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Mac1958

Mac1958

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So Mac let discuss how the World should handle China?
You really have to ask? With communication, collaboration and innovation, and the strength that comes from that.

That would NORMALLY be the way we would handle it, but we no longer possess those qualities or habits. We refuse to collaborate and innovate with EACH OTHER, let alone with OTHER COUNTRIES. Trumpism has made sure of that by barricading itself within its own alternate informational universe and telling everyone else to fuck off.

So, given how far we have fallen, to answer your question, I don't know. World leadership is now up for grabs.
Wow!

So China rise is because of Trump?

China was an issue before Trump and for anyone to forget the fact China and the U.S. were at each other throats over the South China Sea and our Military involvement with Japan and South Korea during Obama years, well Mac you should look at past articles and realize China has never played nice before Trump and talking to them has gotten us what?
Ah, a straw man. Yes, China has been preparing for this moment for decades, and here it is. Congrats.
Straw man?

No, fact is you wrote your opinion with pulling articles while leaving out the fact that the U.S. for over a decade has been dealing with a China expansion into regions like Africa, South America, Central America, Mexico, Asia and the Middle East.

You act like we haven’t attempted to negotiate with China before and yet we have and it has failed, so Mac what is your solution?

Negotiations and just hope China honor their side of the deal?
I've answered your questions clearly. Your agreement or your approval are not required.

I notice you have twice now used the term "you act like", trying to put words in my mouth. Yes, that's known as a "straw man", and I don't have patience for that kind of intellectual dishonesty.

Your guy is in charge. Follow and defend him. Enjoy.
My guy?

I didn’t know Johnson won in 2016?

No Mac your opinion is we should just talk to them and roll over and just let China manipulate us while pretending they are doing nothing!

Fact is you have no answers at all and blame Trump for everyone failure to slow China and when it is pointed out you are full of shit you then start telling other posters who they voted for...

So I do apologize your Queen did not win in 2016 but she would have failed just like Trump, Obama and Bush did but hey let forget Obama and Bush failures and let just say Trump is the cause of China growth...

I mean yeah let forget the disrespect China showed Obama or the fact they manipulate our currency and have been for a decade and let just talk to them because hey China listens very well...

I mean they haunted their expansion in the South China Sea for that oil when Obama was President, wait they didn’t!

Shit, well they stopped their expansion around the world when Obama was President, oh shit they didn’t?

What the hell then Mac, well we will do the Mac way and just talk to them and if they refuse to listen, well hell Mac you can blame Trump for your miserable failure you call a life then!

Fact is no matter if it is Trump or Biden the reality is China does not give a fuck about what the U.S. or the World want and will do as it pleases or until a full war breaks out...
More straw man arguments. This appears to be the only way you know how to communicate.

Not interested, sorry.
 

Mad_Jack_Flint

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Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.
Wait...........wut?

Clinton, Biden, and the rest of the Chinese sell outs led the world? How many millions did Hunter Biden make from them again as he worked with Chinese corporations to join the US as an economic power house?

And who was responsible for Covid? Being a partisan shill like yourself, I thought it was Trump and not China itself as China stopped travel to China to help stop the spread of Covid, but allowed its citizens to travel abroad to spread the plague. When Trump criticizes China then all of the Chinese loving Progressives like Mac come out of the wood work like Lebron as they defend how China has handled its oppression of Hong Kong while pretending to be about human rights and BLM? And when Trump stopped travel from China Biden and the rest of the Dims called him xenophobic for doing it?

Meanwhile, partisan shill democrats like Mac refuse to utter the words, Abraham Accord, a peace deal that effectively helps bring peace to the Middle East without the the Hamas led PLO, which has stopped peace from coming there for generations. Incidentally, this is something that the Obama administration swore up and down could never happen.

It is understandable why someone like Mac may not know about it since he dedicates himself to a steady diet of CNN.
It's Trump's time. It's your time. Enjoy.
Will you ever respond to one of my retorts that either makes sense or refutes what I have said?

Ever?
Only if they address my point instead of trying to deflect and change the subject.

Oh, and if I read them. I don't read a majority of Trumpster talk radio talking points. Boring.
I didn’t know POTUS is a Trump supporting program... Thank you for showing your ignorance as usual.

No one is deflecting and the fact is you can not stand anyone telling you the truth.

You get hurt and then call everyone that you disagree with a Trumpster and then wonder why no one take you seriously at all!

Fact remains China does not care what the U.S. or the World says and you need to grow the fuck up and realize that boy!
 

Mad_Jack_Flint

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So Mac let discuss how the World should handle China?
You really have to ask? With communication, collaboration and innovation, and the strength that comes from that.

That would NORMALLY be the way we would handle it, but we no longer possess those qualities or habits. We refuse to collaborate and innovate with EACH OTHER, let alone with OTHER COUNTRIES. Trumpism has made sure of that by barricading itself within its own alternate informational universe and telling everyone else to fuck off.

So, given how far we have fallen, to answer your question, I don't know. World leadership is now up for grabs.
Wow!

So China rise is because of Trump?

China was an issue before Trump and for anyone to forget the fact China and the U.S. were at each other throats over the South China Sea and our Military involvement with Japan and South Korea during Obama years, well Mac you should look at past articles and realize China has never played nice before Trump and talking to them has gotten us what?
Ah, a straw man. Yes, China has been preparing for this moment for decades, and here it is. Congrats.
Straw man?

No, fact is you wrote your opinion with pulling articles while leaving out the fact that the U.S. for over a decade has been dealing with a China expansion into regions like Africa, South America, Central America, Mexico, Asia and the Middle East.

You act like we haven’t attempted to negotiate with China before and yet we have and it has failed, so Mac what is your solution?

Negotiations and just hope China honor their side of the deal?
I've answered your questions clearly. Your agreement or your approval are not required.

I notice you have twice now used the term "you act like", trying to put words in my mouth. Yes, that's known as a "straw man", and I don't have patience for that kind of intellectual dishonesty.

Your guy is in charge. Follow and defend him. Enjoy.
My guy?

I didn’t know Johnson won in 2016?

No Mac your opinion is we should just talk to them and roll over and just let China manipulate us while pretending they are doing nothing!

Fact is you have no answers at all and blame Trump for everyone failure to slow China and when it is pointed out you are full of shit you then start telling other posters who they voted for...

So I do apologize your Queen did not win in 2016 but she would have failed just like Trump, Obama and Bush did but hey let forget Obama and Bush failures and let just say Trump is the cause of China growth...

I mean yeah let forget the disrespect China showed Obama or the fact they manipulate our currency and have been for a decade and let just talk to them because hey China listens very well...

I mean they haunted their expansion in the South China Sea for that oil when Obama was President, wait they didn’t!

Shit, well they stopped their expansion around the world when Obama was President, oh shit they didn’t?

What the hell then Mac, well we will do the Mac way and just talk to them and if they refuse to listen, well hell Mac you can blame Trump for your miserable failure you call a life then!

Fact is no matter if it is Trump or Biden the reality is China does not give a fuck about what the U.S. or the World want and will do as it pleases or until a full war breaks out...
More straw man arguments. This appears to be the only way you know how to communicate.

Not interested, sorry.
Because you can not refute the facts as usual!
 

Mad_Jack_Flint

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As you can see posters Mac is screaming Straw Man because he believe all of China growth happened when Trump became President.

We must forget that China main growth happened under Bush and Obama days and Trump has very little to do with that growth.

See Mac want us to ignore the decade long projects in Africa and South America and just focus on Trump failures because if you look at the whole picture the Mac weak ass rant would be laughed at!

See Mac believe if we go to the table China will honor is agreements while forgetting China can give a rat ass about anything the entire World want but Mac still believe talking will do wonders when it has failed.

All Mac want is to blame Trump for more than a decade long of failures with China and if someone points out his failure to realize China was a threat before Trump, well fuck you must be a fucking Trumpster.

Hey Mac I am voting for Biden but unlike you I know China is and has been and will be a threat to the World!
 

Correll

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Maybe the rest of the world, if they wanted our leadership so much, should have been more diplomatic about the way they expressed their disapproval of our voters choice. AND been more understanding when we wanted out interests served a little better.
There ya go. And now we have what we have. Enjoy.

My points are valid. Your refusal to address them indicates that you are not serious about communication with me, referring back to your earlier complaint that we are not able to do that.


And I am happy with our changing relationship with our allies. If they are such poor allies that they cannot show some diplomatic respect, and understand that we want more balanced relationships,


then we should be less close.
 

Mad_Jack_Flint

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Here is the answer Mac:

You can not talk to a Super Power like China that is hell bent on work Domination, so you must take steps to wreck their economy and how do you do this?

Well first off you must take their trade partners from them in Africa, Asia, South America, Central America and Mexico...

Then you must start civil unrest in their country with segments of their population and cause their population to question if the government that controls them the correct government to lead them?

Hmmm, have you noticed something there Mac?

Read what I wrote and then look at what is going on here and realize how much China influence has had on our country for over a damn decade.

You can not negotiate with a Super Power like China with the thought they will play by the rules we agree with because we never do and any fucking mental midget believe we can is just fucking retarded.

So Mac as you blame Trump for everything from your nightmares to Space Aliens not visiting us let me be clear China is, has been and will be a major issue and unless you want Nuclear War, well not much else can be done...

Fact is those like you ignored the threat and now you are crying because you can not understand how it happened and no Trump is not the main reason why and his answers or solutions are not helping either but again nothing will stop China expansion.

So thank Bush and Obama or better yet Nixon and brush up on your Mandarin...
 

shockedcanadian

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Sad to see America retreating from the world stage, alienating and angering its allies, isolating itself from progress, looking closer to dividing in two than growing in strength, abdicating its role as Leader of the Free World and creating a global leadership vacuum the world hasn't seen in 100 years. China, meanwhile, continues to take advantage of our exit, and is aggressively working towards the future, below.

Can Europe, with Germany leading the way, slow down the global advancement of China? Here's hoping. China's intentions for us are clearly not in America's best interests. And we'll see what America decides it wants to be in November.

.
You believe the same nations that have sat on their hands for decades are going to somehow "fill the void"? Did I miss Merkel at the UN chastising China as Trump did? Where has ANYONE in Europe been the last 25 years? I'd love to see Europe take a stance and become leaders against China. I really would. I don't hold my breath.

Germany is a paper tiger. The leaders there will be seduced by the Communists as others have, and by the way, the West is to blame for this "get what I can for my country to hell with principles". We allowed China to become this powerful, even some in our nations still to this day make excuses and apologize for their actions, even as they seek to crush us and our societies.

It's time to drastically reform, or, eliminate the WTO. THAT is a key issue with the loss of nation state powers today, and China is squeezing everyone.

Why do you think cowards like China First Bloomberg are desperate to NOT have Trump win? Leadership in the West have been willingly blind for a long time and intel agencies either haven't done their jobs well, or, they haven't had the ear of leaders. Flakes like Bloomberg only ensure Chinas success.

Intel agencies had to have some thick blinders on to believe that once Russia collapsed that somehow there wouldn't be threats to Western power. Gorbechev was right about one thing, we shouldn't have become so arrogant. Arrogance leads to errors and lacklustre effort. The U.S should build it's closest alliances with those directly in the sphere of Communist Chinas influence.

If Germany wants to be a leader, start with some strong words. With all due respect, Merkel can't seem to shed her East German roots.
 

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