Armed Security on Campus

[Canon Shooter]

I have a serious question. When a civilian has a gun out and the cops arrive. Isn’t the civilian the first person shot by cops?

All the cops see is a man with a gun. As far as they know you are the crazed madman they are seeking. The cops have shot armed civilians, fellow cops, and just bystanders who for some reason caught the officers attention or were caught in the crossfire.

So how do you plan to address this with your desire to arm teachers? Yes. They may be able to kill the armed madman shooting up the school. But they almost certainly will be shot by cops after the event when the boys in blue show up. The advice of laying your weapon on the ground before cops get there. We are talking about a bunch of scared kids. Any one of whom could imagine themselves as Rambo and grab your gun from the ground to defend the group. Then Junior is shot full of holes by cops who don’t understand he is a good guy with a gun.

So what is the answer? Because I honestly do not have a clue.

Respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about.

I've drawn my firearm twice in self defense. The first time I didn't need to fire it. The second time I did. My smokin' hot Puerto Rican girlfriend and I were approached by three armed assailants. Upon drawing my weapon (a Kimber Ultra Carry .45) one of the assailants fled. The other two did not. I shot both of them. One was arraigned from his hospital bed. The other did not survive.

After shooting them, I rendered my weapon safe and dialed 911. I gave the dispatcher a description of both the assailants, my smokin' hot Puerto Rican girlfriend, and of myself. I set my gun on the curb, we sat down and waited. When the police arrived I identified myself to them and I was taken into custody (which I expected).

At no time was I ever worried about the police shooting me; they never even drew their sidearms. At no time was I concerned about "Rambo" running up and grabbing the gun. Those weren't rational fears. Now, had I been standing their with a locked and loaded .45 in my hands when they rolled up, it would've been very, very different. The police would have drawn down on me, and I suspect that they would draw down on a teacher holding a gun, too.

All that teacher would have to do is render the weapon safe and set it down...

 

[pknopp]

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Not here ... Which has previously been explained.
If they can get into the school where you are, you failed in electing people who are serious enough about school safety.

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Someone intent on getting in will get in. Just because it hasn't happened there like it hasn't most everywhere is irrelevant. Besides, as I pointed about before, Timothy McVeigh never got in the building.

 

[pknopp]

Respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about.

I've drawn my firearm twice in self defense. The first time I didn't need to fire it. The second time I did. My smokin' hot Puerto Rican girlfriend and I were approached by three armed assailants. Upon drawing my weapon (a Kimber Ultra Carry .45) one of the assailants fled. The other two did not. I shot both of them. One was arraigned from his hospital bed. The other did not survive.

After shooting them, I rendered my weapon safe and dialed 911. I gave the dispatcher a description of both the assailants, my smokin' hot Puerto Rican girlfriend, and of myself. I set my gun on the curb, we sat down and waited. When the police arrived I identified myself to them and I was taken into custody (which I expected).

At no time was I ever worried about the police shooting me; they never even drew their sidearms. At no time was I concerned about "Rambo" running up and grabbing the gun. Those weren't rational fears. Now, had I been standing their with a locked and loaded .45 in my hands when they rolled up, it would've been very, very different. The police would have drawn down on me, and I suspect that they would draw down on a teacher holding a gun, too.

All that teacher would have to do is render the weapon safe and set it down...

In Columbine there was more than one shooter. How is the teacher to know how many there are?

 

[Canon Shooter]

In Columbine there was more than one shooter. How is the teacher to know how many there are?

And in pretty much every other school shooting in our history, the shooting was carried out by a single assailant.

Columbine was an anomaly...

 

[pknopp]

And in pretty much every other school shooting in our history, the shooting was carried out by a single assailant.

Columbine was an anomaly...

School shootings are an anomaly but all the same............in stressful situations many do not act like how a text book would tell one to.

 

[BlackSand]

Someone intent on getting in will get in. Just because it hasn't happened there like it hasn't most everywhere is irrelevant. Besides, as I pointed about before, Timothy McVeigh never got in the building.

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The Resource Officer and everyone they call to the scene can get to them before the shooter gets anywhere
with the Jaws of Life they stole to try and get through the door ...
Or the jackhammer they brought to go through the brick wall.

You fail to understand ... If they can get into the school, you have failed to elect people who are serious enough about school safety.
I'm sure there is some exception to a rule somewhere ... But stop making excuses for not doing what you need to do.

I mean damn ... If they bring explosives they might be able to get in, but everyone is going to know they are there ...
There are policies and procedures for handling that as well.
.​

 

[Natural Citizen]

Unless we want to get serious about addressing the underlying mental health crisis in this country all of this is a waste of time.

I think the deeper issue is the gradual erosion of virtue in society as a whole.

Yeah, you could say ''mental health crisis'' but it's deeper than that.

Laws can't change the morality of the people. The morality of the people has to change and that will in turn affect the laws.

But even one quick cruise around the www in the morning, observing the sad state of human relations, shows just how bad it is.

 

[pknopp]

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The Resource Officer and everyone they call to the scene can get to them before the shooter gets anywhere
with the Jaws of Life they stole to try and get through the door ...
Or the jackhammer they brought to go through the brick wall ...

You fail to understand ... If they can get into the school, you have failed to elect people who are serious enough about school safety.
I'm sure there is some exception to a rule somewhere ... But stop making excuses for not doing what you need to do.

.​

We have enacted many systems to keep people from bringing guns onto planes but yet it is shown it's still being done.

People are not going to be at the ready every moment of the day. Someone intent on doing harm will do so. Is it better he kill 20 people at the mall?

 

[pknopp]

I think the deeper issue is the gradual erosion of virtue in society as a whole.

Yeah, you could say ''mental health crisis'' but it's deeper than that.

Hate. There is a lot of it around.

 

[Canon Shooter]

School shootings are an anomaly but all the same............in stressful situations many do not act like how a text book would tell one to.

Well, then that's for the individual to determine. The individual needs to decide if they will be able to handle that level of stress.

Let's be clear: I do not advocate arming all teachers. I'm sure many would not want to carry a concealed weapon and, while I may not agree with their position, I absolutely respect it.

I do, however, strongly believe that we should allow a teacher to be armed if he or she chooses, provided that teacher completes a background check for concealed carry and is properly trained in the use of deadly force and escalation of force.

When you look at all of the school shootings in our history, how many school officials (teachers, campus resource officers, etc) have been armed? We may not be able to say that an armed teacher can absolutely stop a school shooting, but we can say with absolute certainty that an unarmed teacher cannot...

 

[pknopp]

Well, then that's for the individual to determine. The individual needs to decide if they will be able to handle that level of stress.

Let's be clear: I do not advocate arming all teachers. I'm sure many would not want to carry a concealed weapon and, while I may not agree with their position, I absolutely respect it.

I do, however, strongly believe that we should allow a teacher to be armed if he or she chooses, provided that teacher completes a background check for concealed carry and is properly trained in the use of deadly force and escalation of force.

When you look at all of the school shootings in our history, how many school officials (teachers, campus resource officers, etc) have been armed? We may not be able to say that an armed teacher can absolutely stop a school shooting, but we can say with absolute certainty that an unarmed teacher cannot...

I've stated much the same position. IMO if a person wishes to be armed they have that right. I do not own a gun and have no desire to but despite how many make much of what I say, it's not about me.

 

[BlackSand]

We have enacted many systems to keep people from bringing guns onto planes but yet it is shown it's still being done.

People are not going to be at the ready every moment of the day. Someone intent on doing harm will do so. Is it better he kill 20 people at the mall?

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Stop making excuses.
Understand what I meant when I said it isn't "hanging a sign on the wall".

It is an environment, developed and implemented with the intent to identify threats and address them.
They do it here every day ... It touches every aspect of the experience ...
And is adapted into normal activity to a point you don't even recognize it in the experience ... On purpose.

If it is not effective where you are ... You have failed to provide for it.
Whatever you tell me you cannot do ... Isn't ever going to help anything ...

.​

 

[Canon Shooter]

We have enacted many systems to keep people from bringing guns onto planes but yet it is shown it's still being done.

Can you provide examples of that occurring?

 

[pknopp]

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Stop making excuses.
Understand what I meant when I said it isn't "hanging a sign on the wall".

It is an environment, developed and implemented with the intent to identify threats and address them.
They do it here every day ... It touches every aspect of the experience ...
And is adapted into normal activity to a point you don't even recognize it in the experience ... On purpose.

If it is not effective where you are ... You have failed to provide for it.
Whatever you tell me you cannot do ... Isn't ever going to help anything ...

.​

Whatever you say.

 

[bendog]

Sad day today.

But I hope that liberals will see the writing on the wall now. When you consider the downside--like we saw today--there are zero good reasons to not have armed security on campus. I don't know if Robb Elementary had an armed security guard on duty at the time of the shooting. This isn't specifically about today. It's a tragedy that is done...but will be repeated time and again as long as we continue down this insane course of allowing anyone who wants a gun to buy a gun.

What it is about is the next time and the time after that. What my argument boils down to is this. When the shooting starts, the first call that someone makes is to the police--the proverbial "good guy" with a gun. And you want that good guy to get there as fast as possible to stop the shooting. So...now...doesn't it make more sense to have a good guy there already...familiar with the lay out, familiar with the kids, knowing who is out of place, perhaps?

Will it stop every shooting in the future? Of course not. But it may limit the body count when it does happen.

What's this about "liberals"? Some states don't permit TEAchers to be armed, and not all teachers WANT to be armed. The only complaint about putting armed security/cops in schools that I've heard of is .... not willing to pay taxes

Guns in school? Here’s a list of states that allow armed teachers

Tamaqua School District’s controversial decision to allow teachers and staff to carry guns raises the question: Can school districts simply decide to allow teachers to possess guns on school …

www.mcall.com

 

[BlackSand]

Whatever you say.

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Try to have a point worth debating or examining ... And you may stumble over something worth saying.

.​

 

[pknopp]

Can you provide examples of that occurring?

TSA Lets Loaded Guns Past Security, on to Planes

Transportation Security Administration allowed a New Orleans Hornets executive to board a plane from New Orleans to Newark, N.J., with a loaded handgun in his baggage.

abcnews.go.com

 

[pknopp]

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Try to have a point worth debating or examining ... And you may stumble over something worth saying.

.​

Schools that have done next to nothing have the same success rates as those who have made theirs a prison.

 

[BlackSand]

TSA Lets Loaded Guns Past Security, on to Planes

Transportation Security Administration allowed a New Orleans Hornets executive to board a plane from New Orleans to Newark, N.J., with a loaded handgun in his baggage.

abcnews.go.com

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When was the TSA put in charge of security on school campuses?
How does the TSA failing to stop something, suggest more Federal Government would be worth examining?

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[pknopp]

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When was the TSA put in charge of security on school campuses?
How does the TSA failing to stop something, suggest more Federal Government would be worth examining?

.​

I'm not sure I argued that. I'm pretty sure I didn't.