fncceo
Diamond Member
- Nov 29, 2016
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How could anyone say that is fair to the indigenous population?
Jews ARE the indigenous population.
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How could anyone say that is fair to the indigenous population?
Only brown ones.Jews ARE the indigenous population.
Only brown ones.
Then you are misusing indigenous. The jewish religion and culture did not originate there. Check mesopotamia. And egypt, if you believe the myths about moses.You're confusing race with culture ... a Jew is a Jew, regardless of race.
Sadly, many western leftists apparently believe that Israel is the only nation in the world that shouldn't protect itself.
Nevertheless, i see your point.You're confusing race with culture ... a Jew is a Jew, regardless of race.
The jewish religion and culture did not originate there.
Nevertheless, i see your point.
So if i decide to become rastafarian, can i claim to be indigenous to jamaica?
Jews ARE the indigenous population.
The jews' "right" to that land does not exist, IMO. Israelis have a right to that land because Israel is a sovereign nation that currently exists there. I guess i eschew any of this chicken and the egg game or the divine right nonsense.American Indians originated in Asia. If you go back far enough, the only place on Earth with an indigenous population would be the Olduvai Gorge.
However, Jews arrived in the region 2,600 years before Arab invasions and, despite the best efforts of Greeks Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks, Franks, and The British, there has been a continuous Jewish presence there the entire time.
That history certainly meets the definition of indigenous a lot better than Arabs, who only arrived in the region in any significant numbers about 1600 years ago.
You're confusing race with culture ... a Jew is a Jew, regardless of race.
American Indians originated in Asia. If you go back far enough, the only place on Earth with an indigenous population would be the Olduvai Gorge.
However, Jews arrived in the region 2,600 years before Arab invasions and, despite the best efforts of Greeks Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks, Franks, and The British, there has been a continuous Jewish presence there the entire time.
That history certainly meets the definition of indigenous a lot better than Arabs, who only arrived in the region in any significant numbers about 1600 years ago.
The jews' "right" to that land does not exist, IMO. Israelis have a right to that land because Israel is a sovereign nation that currently exists there. I guess i eschew any of this chicken and the egg game or the divine right nonsense.
The jews' "right" to that land does not exist, IMO.
Hoo boy. There is so much wrong in this.Anyone who knows anything about Judaism knows that Jews screwed up with the rebellion against Rome.
Jews were not in power when Rome took over Palestine, and it was the Parthian expansion the Romans were trying to stop.
So Rome recreated Israel, that had not really existed for over 500 years, as a puppet for Rome.
For example, King Herod of Israel was a Roman who converted to Judaism.
But Rome not only easily crushed the first Jewish rebellion of 60AD, but the later one around 135AD as well.
So Jews were left with 3 choices.
1. There is no God.
2. Jews were not the Chosen People.
3. Jews were being punish with their defeat, for the sins of arrogance and pride.
Jews picked #3 and set about atoning for their sins, by mixing with other cultures, trying to be more humble, and waiting for the coming of the Messiah, as a sign their atonement had worked.
So the meaning of Zionism is not supposed to mean creating a paradise on Earth.
Zionism is supposed to mean atonement and humble actions, so that the Messiah will come and create Zion on Earth.
Palestine is not the homeland of Jews.
We don't know where that was, but it likely was the Sinai.
There is absolutely not one shred of evidence of Hebrew existence in Palestine before the invasion around 1000 BC.
And the Temple of Solomon and Israel only lasted about 220 years before being defeated and destroyed by the Assyrians.
So Palestine was the peak of Jewish history of aggression, not any significant duration or anything to be proud of.
By 780 BC, Israel was gone and never to return.
And good riddance, since that Israel was guilty of horrendous genocide against the Canaanites.
The Zionist movement of 1895 by Theodor Herzl, started out very humble.
The idea was to return to the simply life on farms.
But by 1930 or so, Zionism had become completely corrupted by David Ben Gurion and Chaim Weizmann.
These were evil people who deliberately antagonized Hitler in order to force more Jews to emigrate to Palestine.
So many that the British had to halt immigration, which then caused these evil Zionists to murder the British and blow up the King David Hotel.
The current Israel is an abomination, mostly pushed by evil atheists like Netanyahu, who were bent on murdering natives to steal homes.
As Ashkenazi, people like Netanyahu do not even have any Mideast DNA at all.
Very true. Rights are abstract human constructs that have as much substance as we physically give them.If you wish to deconstruct the concept fully, you'll realize that no one on this planet has a "right" to anything.
Yep, that too.As I said before, historical claim is meaningless without the will to use violence to enforce that claim. The Arab Palestinians have used forced to assert their claim, the Israelis have as well. The Israelis won that argument
There is a right for Israel's existence according to the UN, due to their 1948 partition plan, but that does not include Jerusalem or any of the West Bank as being part of Israel.
If you wish to deconstruct the concept fully, you'll realize that no one on this planet has a "right" to anything. Rights are an agreed upon human construct that gives us the illusion we aren't living in anarchy.
But, no one has any right to anything that they themselves, or someone on their behalf, isn't willing to enforce with violence (lest someone else deny them of that right).
I don't believe in "divine" rights in that G-d, if he does enforce them, only enforces them in a very sporadic and dilatory way. Mostly, as in the "divine right of kings" or "manifest destiny" we are anthropomorphizing G-d's will to support our own desires.
But, I do believe in history and, without a doubt, Jews have the superior historical claim to the territory. That being said, American Indians has a vastly superior historical claim to North America and the Greeks have claim to most of the countries in The Mediterranean.
As I said before, historical claim is meaningless without the will to use violence to enforce that claim. The Arab Palestinians have used forced to assert their claim, the Israelis have as well. The Israelis won that argument.
Hoo boy. There is so much wrong in this.
The Palestinian claim goes back 10,000 years of peaceful coexistence.