Are you opposed to "Zionism" and, if so, why please?

[K9Buck]

As a point of reference, here is a definition of Zionism.

Zionism | Definition, History, Examples, & Facts

Zionism, Jewish nationalist movement that originated in eastern and central Europe in the latter part of the 19th century that has had as its goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews. Learn more about the history of Zionism in this...

www.britannica.com

Zionism, Jewish nationalist movement that has had as its goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews (Hebrew: Eretz Yisraʾel, “the Land of Israel”). Though Zionism originated in eastern and central Europe in the latter part of the 19th century, it is in many ways a continuation of the ancient attachment of the Jews and of the Jewish religion to the historical region of Palestine, where one of the hills of ancient Jerusalem was called Zion.

 

[Oddball]

I'm against the estalishment of religion by The State, so I'm against Zionism as a matter of course.

 

[K9Buck]

I'm against the estalishment of religion by The State, so I'm against Zionism as a matter of course.

So you are opposed to the existence of Israel?

 

[fncceo]

Zionism is, nothing more, or nothing less, than a movement to establish a secular, ethnically Jewish state in the land that was historically Israel. The re-establishment the Jewish culture in traditional lands was vital to Jewish existence after centuries of diaspora because, as the world has proved OVER, and OVER, and OVER again, Jews as a tenant population in any society are at risk of extinction.

I stress secular because the largest by far component of traditional Zionists were secular Jews who, despite attempts to integrate into various societies, found themselves as much at risk as distinctly religious Jews. One of the reasons why religious Jews roundly rejected Zionism (at least until Zionism became an establish fact) is that they rejected the idea of a secular Jewish State.

That goal has been accomplished and the State of Israel is firmly and irrevocably established. The goal of Zionism, and the reason for the existence of Zionism is gone. Essentially, supporting Zionism is equivalent to supporting a sun-centric plan of The Solar System ... it exists, whether or not you choose to accept it.

Anyone today who opposes Zionism (or claims to) is supporting the destruction of the established State of Israel. There is no other way to be anti-Zionist now that the State of Israel is established fact and home to over 9 million people, at least of quarter of whom aren't Jewish by faith or ethnicity.

 

[Oddball]

So you are opposed to the existence of Israel?

Not necessarily.

 

[theHawk]

I support nationalism. The world would be a much safer and peaceful place if all nations were founded based on a single cultural identity for each.

 

[K9Buck]

The goal of Zionism, and the reason for the existence of Zionism is gone.

Some Zionists would argue that Israel has further and legitimate territorial claims in order to expand the nation. What do you say to that?

 

[Oddball]

Zionism is, nothing more, or nothing less, than a movement to establish a secular, ethnically Jewish state in the land that was historically Israel. The re-establish the Jewish culture in traditional lands after centuries of diaspora because, as the world has proved OVER, and OVER, and OVER again, Jews as a tenant population in any society are at risk of extinction.

I stress secular because the largest by far component of traditional Zionists were secular Jews who, despite attempts to integrate into various societies, found themselves as much at risk as distinctly religious Jews. One of the reasons why religious Jews roundly rejected Zionism (at least until Zionism became an establish fact) is that they rejected the idea of a secular Jewish State.

That goal has been accomplished and the State of Israel is firmly and irrevocably established. The goal of Zionism, and the reason for the existence of Zionism is gone. Essentially, supporting Zionism is equivalent to supporting a sun-centric plan of The Solar System ... it exists, whether or not you choose to accept it.

Anyone today who opposes Zionism (or claims to) is supporting the destruction of the established State of Israel. There is no other way to be anti-Zionist now that the State of Israel is established fact and home to over 9 million people, at least of quarter of whom aren't Jewish by faith or ethnicity.

Fair enough.

Tell me more about this "ethnicity" thing....Every non-convert Jew I've ever seen is a lily-white Caucasian....Outside the religious practices, I see no ethnic difference between Jews and any other indo-European stock.

 

[K9Buck]

Not necessarily.

I think it can be argued that, historically, no segment of humanity has been as persecuted as the Jewish people. I certainly understand the justification for supporting the rebirth of the nation of Israel as a homeland for the world's Jewish people. So, yes, I SUPPORT the nation of Israel. Additionally, I believe that Israel does a lot of good things for the region and the world. I admire them and stand with them and, frankly, don't understand the hatred against them.

 

[Oddball]

I think it can be argued that, historically, no segment of humanity has been as persecuted as the Jewish people. I certainly understand the justification for supporting the rebirth of the nation of Israel as a homeland for the world's Jewish people. So, yes, I SUPPORT the nation of Israel. Additionally, I believe that Israel does a lot of good things for the region and the world. I admire them and stand with them and, frankly, don't understand the hatred against them.

The past doesn't count for jack shit....Our political world is run on willingness to use aggressive force...The Israeli Jews are very good at it....Their "right to exist" is dependent upon how willing their own people are to defend their own dirt.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I support the rights of people to determine their own fate, so yes, og course I support Zionism.

 

[K9Buck]

The past doesn't count for jack shit

Well, the past is a good indicator of the future. For decent people that opposed the persecution and massacre of Jewish people, supporting their legitimate need for their own homeland was a no-brainer.

 

[fncceo]

Every non-convert Jew I've ever seen is a lily-white Caucasian....Outside the religious practices, I see no ethnic difference between Jews and any other indo-European stock.

You obviously don't get around much then. While gentiles with very little exposure to Jews (which would include the the vast majority of them) only recognize Jews of the American Ashkenazic variety, Jews exist around the globe in many different racial identities.

Mizrachi Jewish communities from near and middle Asia are as old as The Diaspora and Jewish populations have existed in India for centuries. Jewish communities in Africa and China trace their existence back to migrating Jewish populations from the original expulsion.

I find it ironic that the practice of referring to Jews as "semites", started by Germans 150 years ago, was meant to be insult in that Jews, no matter how well they assimilated, could not be Europeans because of their "Semitic Blood". Now, the same-thinking people use the argument that Jews cannot live in traditional Israel because their blood is far too European.

 

[BS Filter]

I support civilization so naturally I support Israel. I also support the destruction of savage barbarians so naturally I support the extinction of islam.

 

[fncceo]

Some Zionists would argue that Israel has further and legitimate territorial claims in order to expand the nation. What do you say to that?

I think that's a matter to be decided between Israel and its neighbors. In the same way that every country on Earth decides their borders, by mutual agreement.

 

[fncceo]

Their "right to exist" is dependent upon how willing their own people are to defend their own dirt.

Every nation's "right to exist" depends on how capable (and willing) they are at defending that right against those who don't recognize it.

This in no way is unique only to Israel.

 

[Oddball]

You obviously don't get around much then. While gentiles with very little exposure to Jews (which would include the the vast majority of them) only recognize Jews of the American Ashkenazic variety, Jews exist around the globe in many different racial identities.

Mizrachi Jewish communities from near and middle Asia are as old as The Diaspora and Jewish populations have existed in India for centuries. Jewish communities in Africa and China trace their existence back to migrating Jewish populations from the original expulsion.

I find it ironic that the practice of referring to Jews as "semites" started by Germans 150 years ago was meant to be insult in that Jews, no matter how well they assimilated, could not be Europeans because of their "Semitic Blood". Now, the same-thinking people use the argument that Jews cannot live in traditional Israel because their blood is far too European.

Now, the same-thinking people use the argument that Jews cannot live in traditional Israel because their blood is far too European.

Definitely not my position....I'm gathering information, not casting stones.

Given all that all that accumulated history of multi-ethnic penetration of Judaism, how does the Jewish religion establish itself as an "ethnicity"?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You obviously don't get around much then. While gentiles with very little exposure to Jews (which would include the the vast majority of them) only recognize Jews of the American Ashkenazic variety, Jews exist around the globe in many different racial identities.

Mizrachi Jewish communities from near and middle Asia are as old as The Diaspora and Jewish populations have existed in India for centuries. Jewish communities in Africa and China trace their existence back to migrating Jewish populations from the original expulsion.

I find it ironic that the practice of referring to Jews as "semites", started by Germans 150 years ago, was meant to be insult in that Jews, no matter how well they assimilated, could not be Europeans because of their "Semitic Blood". Now, the same-thinking people use the argument that Jews cannot live in traditional Israel because their blood is far too European.

Wilhelm Marr


See - this is one gentile who knows a thing ot two.

 

[Oddball]

Every nation's "right to exist" depends on how capable (and willing) they are at defending that right against those who don't recognize it.

This in no way is unique only to Israel.

Absolutely not....I don't necessarily oppose the Israeli State, under the current political context.

 

[K9Buck]

This in no way is unique only to Israel.

Sadly, many western leftists apparently believe that Israel is the only nation in the world that shouldn't protect itself.