Are you for or against socialism for the USA?

[Rigby5]

There is nothing wrong with using force.

In self defense.

If you go to a restaurant and eat, but then refuse to pay, then the restaurant owner is justified in using force to make you pay.

You're trying to rob him- he is defending what is his-

The initiation of force is immoral. There are no ifs ands or buts-

But everyone benefits from roads, fire departments, defense, harbors, libraries, parks, public schools, etc., so then why should we not use force if someone tries to not pay their fair share?

 

[justoffal]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

We already have all the socialism we can possibly handle and we can't afford that. Socialism would be wonderful if there was an endless fountain of money some place that we could tap that nobody had to earn. Unfortunately that is not a real world scenario. It doesn't matter if your for or against socialism.....that's more or less like asking if you are for or against the Sun..... For or against an earthquake..... For or against gravity. It's not a for or against question really...It's a matter of how much can we sustain?

Jo

 

[Lesh]

There are hardly any nations on earth that aren't "socialist" to a degree

But the US will never be as socialist as for instance Sweden...

 

[Rigby5]

We already have socialism in a blend with capitalism in our economic model. It's here in a form..by default.
Probably better you ask the question, are you for or against increasing or expanding programs that people would consider socialistic in nature. And what would those changes be.
Or creating programs like public option or a high risk pool for healthcare?

I don't hear anyone left or right proposing that the government or the state own and control the means of production.

There is a blend or mix of Socialism in our economic model; this is true. At the moment, there is a greater emphasis on Capitalism which, in my mind, works. The problem is that there exists a push from an element that would like for US to be more Socialist like European and South American models. Universal income + closing the income gap destroy incentive and economic opportunity. These are the themes immigrants flee from countries that have no opportunity for prosperity and are failed and flawed socialist models.

That is not true.
No one flees socialism.
Do people flee Sweden or Switzerland?

The countries like Russia and Venezuela are extreme state capitalism, and have never been remotely socialist.

The main countries people try to flee are colonial possessions abused by imperialists.
That includes military dictatorships established by the US, like Honduras, Costa Rico, etc., but also countries where the US has tried to destroy the legitimate government by force, like Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

We already have all the socialism we can possibly handle and we can't afford that. Socialism would be wonderful if there was an endless fountain of money some place that we could tap that nobody had to earn. Unfortunately that is not a real world scenario. It doesn't matter if your for or against socialism.....that's more or less like asking if you are for or against the Sun..... For or against an earthquake..... For or against gravity. It's not a for or against question really...It's a matter of how much can we sustain?

Jo

I disagree because socialism can not only provide more services, but also can safe us all money.
If you look at health care for example, private health insurance add nothing, but a wasteful layer of skimming profit. It is much cheaper if we have doctors and nurses who are hired by the public as a whole, and by pass all the layers of profit skimming. That is what most countries do, and it costs them less than half what we pay, and they get better and more accessible health care.
In contrast, our health care system is not only bad and expensive, but making our products too expensive to export, so ruining our economy.

 

[schmidlap]

Where do you stand...are you for or against socialism for the USA?

Rampant socialism and unbridled capitalism are both cartoonish distortions to malign the political opposition in the U.S.

All advanced nations are now democratic integrations of capitalism and socialism, so it is not a question of "either/or"

Biden defeated his more socialistic contenders for the nomination, which is why the Trump hype regarding "socialism", originally contrived at a time when either Sanders or Warren was the more likely nominees, fizzled so readily. (The caper by Rudy Toot Toot and the Borscht Boys to smear Biden via fake Ukrainian crap had gotten Lardass impeached, and "I've got a Hunter 'laptop from hell' in my pants!" Giuliani just became a bigger and bigger joke.)

Underscoring the bogus nature of the desperate mewling that Biden is a "socialist!" is his recognition as POTUS Elect by the nation's conspicuous capitalists, and their concern regarding Cry Baby Donny's not having the cojones to honestly admit defeat, and the damage such childishness could inflict on the nation:

Top CEOs met to plan response to Trump’s election denial
November 15, 2020

Only a few of America’s CEOs have made public statements about President Donald Trump’s refusal to accept his election loss, but in private, many are alarmed and talking about what collective action would be necessary if they see an imminent threat to democracy.

On Nov. 6, more than two dozen CEOs of major U.S. corporations took part in a video conference to discuss what to do if Trump refuses to leave office or takes other steps to stay in power beyond the scheduled Jan. 20 inauguration of former Vice President Joe Biden.

... if Trump tries to undo the legal process or disrupts a peaceful transition to Biden, the CEOs discussed making public statements and pressuring GOP legislators in their states who may try to redirect Electoral College votes from Biden to Trump...

On Saturday, the day after the video meeting, the Business Roundtable, a group that represents the most powerful companies in America, including Walmart, Apple, Starbucks and General Electric, put out a statement congratulating Biden and his running mate, Kamala Harris.

The executives who participated in the video conference are from Fortune 500 finance, retail, media and manufacturing companies...

Disney Executive Chairman Robert Iger, Blackstone CEO Stephen Schwarzman and Johnson & Johnson CEO Alex Gorsky as attending.

Top CEOs met to plan response to Trump’s election denial

NOV 16, 2020 - WASHINGTON — Only a few of America’s CEOs have made public statements about President Donald Trump’s refusal to accept his election loss, but in private, many are alarmed and talking about what collective action would be necessary if they see an imminent threat to democracy. On...

oklahoman.com

 

[Thinker101]

We already have socialism in a blend with capitalism in our economic model. It's here in a form..by default.
Probably better you ask the question, are you for or against increasing or expanding programs that people would consider socialistic in nature. And what would those changes be.
Or creating programs like public option or a high risk pool for healthcare?

I don't hear anyone left or right proposing that the government or the state own and control the means of production.

There is a blend or mix of Socialism in our economic model; this is true. At the moment, there is a greater emphasis on Capitalism which, in my mind, works. The problem is that there exists a push from an element that would like for US to be more Socialist like European and South American models. Universal income + closing the income gap destroy incentive and economic opportunity. These are the themes immigrants flee from countries that have no opportunity for prosperity and are failed and flawed socialist models.

That is not true.
No one flees socialism.
Do people flee Sweden or Switzerland?

The countries like Russia and Venezuela are extreme state capitalism, and have never been remotely socialist.

The main countries people try to flee are colonial possessions abused by imperialists.
That includes military dictatorships established by the US, like Honduras, Costa Rico, etc., but also countries where the US has tried to destroy the legitimate government by force, like Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.

WTF have you been smoking?


Democratic Socialist Countries 2020

 

[Gdjjr]

There is nothing wrong with using force.

In self defense.

If you go to a restaurant and eat, but then refuse to pay, then the restaurant owner is justified in using force to make you pay.

You're trying to rob him- he is defending what is his-

The initiation of force is immoral. There are no ifs ands or buts-

But everyone benefits from roads, fire departments, defense, harbors, libraries, parks, public schools, etc., so then why should we not use force if someone tries to not pay their fair share?

FORCE, except in self defense is immoral- so, why shouldn't we cover all the bases- unjust wars, foreign and domestic- pre-emptive attacks based on lies- who wins? Tax payers? No. How about all the people that got killed? How'd that work out for you? Them?
Maybe you should read the constitution to determine congresses job- show me the part, especially, about Public Education, fire departments or cops in general, or any of the other things you feel are worthy of making somebody pay for so everyone benefits- then bone up on the founders beliefs about "defense" (think 2nd amendment for starters) - read up on that they believed about standing armies- read up on their beliefs about foreign entanglements period-

The thing with "well we should do (whatever) because" is what's lead us to the precipice of collapse- "we should do whatever because" is not something you want to unleash with pin heads and empty suits- they believe it justifies their every action, whether you believe it does or not, whether you want it or not- it could be called extrapolation-

Anything, and I do mean anything can be justified if so desired- to justify is merely a fancy word for excuse- reason on the other hand is a sound explanation- there is no sound explanation for theft- there is, though, lots of justification= excuses.