Are We Alone in the Universe?

[alang1216]

I think humans are designed for space as much as any other species.

Maybe but that bar is pretty low. No, our AI will explore and colonize the galaxy, not us. We spent enormous sums to put men on the moon for a few days at a time. For a small fraction of that we've had a pair of rovers on Mars for years. In a few years there won't be anything we can do that our AI can't do faster, safer, and cheaper. Face it, humans are obsolete.

 

[Montrovant]

I think humans are designed for space as much as any other species.

Maybe but that bar is pretty low. No, our AI will explore and colonize the galaxy, not us. We spent enormous sums to put men on the moon for a few days at a time. For a small fraction of that we've had a pair of rovers on Mars for years. In a few years there won't be anything we can do that our AI can't do faster, safer, and cheaper. Face it, humans are obsolete.

I think some combination may be the most likely scenario, if the technology becomes possible: unmanned ships sent out to do original explorations, followed by human crews to places of particular interest or where some sort of colonization/terraforming seems possible.

Population issues may end up pushing space exploration and human interstellar travel in the future.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

 

[Montrovant]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

Assuming much of anything about an alien race doesn't seem particularly logical to me. Such beings might not even be alive in the way we currently understand it; they might not be made up of the same substances we associate with life; their evolution or biology might have led to much different instincts and history; what such beings consider logical or compassionate might not agree with what humanity thinks (not that humans can agree on those things! ); there is really little more we can do than wild speculation when it comes to other intelligent life in the universe, because we have no real basis for comparison.

I certainly hope that if we do contact another intelligent species, it doesn't immediately decide to destroy/enslave/eat us, though!

 

[Foxfyre]

I fully expect humankind from Earth to some day be among the space faring peoples.

I don't. Humans are not designed for space. We will give rise to synthetic beings that will be able to endure space.

I think humans are designed for space as much as any other species. I have met a couple of guys who spent months on the Space Station and they said there are still some concerns re some bone loss, etc. in prolonged exposure zero or greatly reduced gravity--so far fully reversible upon return to Earth--but those issues will be resolved in time. We just haven't yet developed space craft that provides a 100% healthy environment for the space travelers on say a five-year Enterprise mission. The Enterprise however, did provide such an environment and I fully expect us to get there. The International Space Station is simply awesome, especially the control room:

Creating a ship with some sort of artificial gravity may be necessary for long-term space travel.

Yes, and while we can create artificial gravity, it is still far less than what the human animal is conditioned to here on Earth. But I am confident that artificial gravity, just like all other technological issues, will be figured out and solved by the time we need it.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think humans are designed for space as much as any other species.

Maybe but that bar is pretty low. No, our AI will explore and colonize the galaxy, not us. We spent enormous sums to put men on the moon for a few days at a time. For a small fraction of that we've had a pair of rovers on Mars for years. In a few years there won't be anything we can do that our AI can't do faster, safer, and cheaper. Face it, humans are obsolete.

No I won't accept that. Those Rovers have zero imagination, zero vision, zero capacity to recognize possibilities and innovate. Humankind is not only not obsolete, but essential to the process.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think humans are designed for space as much as any other species.

Maybe but that bar is pretty low. No, our AI will explore and colonize the galaxy, not us. We spent enormous sums to put men on the moon for a few days at a time. For a small fraction of that we've had a pair of rovers on Mars for years. In a few years there won't be anything we can do that our AI can't do faster, safer, and cheaper. Face it, humans are obsolete.

I think some combination may be the most likely scenario, if the technology becomes possible: unmanned ships sent out to do original explorations, followed by human crews to places of particular interest or where some sort of colonization/terraforming seems possible.

Population issues may end up pushing space exploration and human interstellar travel in the future.

That is my vision. Obviously Planet Earth cannot sustain an unlimited population of anything let alone resource gobbling humans. So as we humans learn to live in peace and to value and preserve life, the concept of finding new worlds to explore and populate is very appealing. And I would like to think possible.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

It is logical to me. Any world population that developed technology that would get them from their home planet to this one is most likely a population that has learned to live cooperatively, constructively, peacefully. Otherwise it would have destroyed themselves which is the ultimate fate of humankind if we fail to learn to do that given our continuous efforts to develop bigger and better technology that would make our extinction/obliteration possible.

 

[task0778]

FYI:

Science fiction writers and moviemakers have shown us countless visions of humanity spread out across the Universe, so you might be forgiven for thinking that we’ve already got this in the bag. Unfortunately, we still have more than a few technical limitations to overcome – like the laws of physics as we understand them – before we can start colonising new worlds beyond our Solar System and galaxy.

That said, several privately funded or volunteer initiatives such as the Tau Zero Foundation, Project Icarus and Breakthrough Starshot have emerged in recent years, each hoping to bring us a little bit closer to reaching across the cosmos. The discovery in August (2016) of an Earth-sized planet orbiting our nearest star has also raised fresh hopes about visiting an alien world.

Interstellar spacecraft will be one of the topics discussed at BBC Future’s World-Changing Ideas Summit in Sydney in November. Is travelling to other galaxies possible? And if so, what kinds of spacecraft might we need to achieve it? Read on to get up to (warp) speed:

WHERE WOULD WE GO?

Where wouldn’t we go? There are more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth – around 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 – and billions of these are estimated to have one to three planets in the so-called ‘Goldilocks’ zone: not too hot, not too cold.

Proxima b is in the right temperature range for liquid water, which is a useful proxy for habitability

As we’re just starting out, the best contender so far is our nearest stellar neighbour – the triple star system of Alpha Centauri, 4.37 light-years away. This year, astronomers at the European Southern Observatory discovered an Earth-sized planet orbiting Alpha Centauri’s red dwarf star Proxima Centauri. The planet, named Proxima b, is at least 1.3 times the mass of the Earth but has a very tight orbit around Proxima Centauri, taking just 11 Earth days to complete the trip. What has astronomers and exoplanet hunters especially hot under the collar is that this planet is in the right temperature range for liquid water, which is a useful proxy for habitability.

The downside is we don’t know if it has an atmosphere, and given its closeness to Proxima Centauri – closer than the orbit of Mercury around our Sun – it would likely be exposed to dangerous solar flares and radiation. It is also tidally-locked, which means the planet always presents the same face to its star; something that would completely alter our notions of night and day.

HOW WOULD WE GET THERE?

That’s the $64 trillion question. Even at the fastest speeds of our current technology, a quick jaunt to check out Proxima b would see us arriving in around 18,000 years, by which time there’s every chance our Earth-bound descendants would have arrived there well ahead of us and grabbed all the glory. But many smart minds – and deep pockets – are being turned to the challenge of finding a faster way to cross vast distances of space.

Breakthrough Starshot – a $100 million initiative privately funded by Russian billionaires Yuri and Julia Milner – is focusing on propelling a tiny unmanned probe by hitting its extremely lightweight sail with a powerful Earth-based laser. The idea is that if the spacecraft is small enough – and we’re talking barely a gram – and the sail light enough, the impact of the laser will be enough to gradually accelerate the craft to around one-fifth of the speed of light, taking it to Alpha Centauri in around 20 years.

The Milners are counting on miniaturisation technologies to enable this tiny craft to carry a camera, thrusters, a power supply, communication and navigation equipment so it can report on what it sees as it flashes past Proxima b. Hopefully the news will be good, because that will lay the foundation for the next and more difficult stage of interstellar travel: people-moving.

WHAT ABOUT WARP DRIVE?

Star Trek made it all look so easy, but everything we currently know about the laws of physics tells us that faster-than-light travel – or even travel at the speed of light – is not possible. Not that science is throwing in the towel. Inspired by another propulsion system that has captured the imagine of science fiction creators, Nasa’s Evolutionary Xenon Thruster project is developing an ion engine which is hoped to accelerate a spacecraft to speeds up to 90,000mph (145,000km/h) using only a fraction of the fuel of a conventional rocket.

But even at those speeds, we won’t be getting far out of the Solar System within a single generation of spacefarers. Until we work out how to warp time and space, interstellar travel is going to be a very slow boat to the future. It might even be better to think of that travel period as the end itself, rather than a means to an end.

The myths and reality about interstellar travel


ME: Doesn't sound like interstellar travel is going to happen for quite some time. For us anyway. But that's not to say another older race of beings out there somewhere that had a head start on us for a few million years give or take may have figured out a way to create and use worm holes or warp drives (queue the ST music). My personal opinion is that as a species we need to develop ourselves in social, non-technical aspects before we start moving off the planet in numbers. I.E., stop the wars, clean up the place, and ca the BS. We still got some growing up to do, and it could be that one or more advanced species from out there somewhere are keeping an eye on us. Let's hope they ain't Klingons.

Re the possibility of warp speeds in space travel, please see my Post #282. Not only has science determined that warp speed and multiple warp speed is possible, but they know how it would work. We just haven't developed the technology to achieve it yet. But now that we know it is possible and how it can be done, you can be sure there are visionary technicians and scientists figuring that out. Will no doubt take some time as do all major technological breakthroughs, but I do not have a doubt in the world that it is possible and I also have strong confidence that we will most likely do it.

I'll just politely disagree, I don't think warp speeds are possible or plausible just yet. And IMHO won't be any time soon. Wouldn't be surprised if eventually we crack that problem and all the others that deal with interstellar travel.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

Assuming much of anything about an alien race doesn't seem particularly logical to me. Such beings might not even be alive in the way we currently understand it; they might not be made up of the same substances we associate with life; their evolution or biology might have led to much different instincts and history; what such beings consider logical or compassionate might not agree with what humanity thinks (not that humans can agree on those things! ); there is really little more we can do than wild speculation when it comes to other intelligent life in the universe, because we have no real basis for comparison.

I certainly hope that if we do contact another intelligent species, it doesn't immediately decide to destroy/enslave/eat us, though!

For me it is a logical assumption because I believe in my gut that they have most likely been here, and probably are here. And the fact that they have not harmed us when they would almost certainly have the capability to do so says to me that they intend us no harm.

 

[Foxfyre]

FYI:

Science fiction writers and moviemakers have shown us countless visions of humanity spread out across the Universe, so you might be forgiven for thinking that we’ve already got this in the bag. Unfortunately, we still have more than a few technical limitations to overcome – like the laws of physics as we understand them – before we can start colonising new worlds beyond our Solar System and galaxy.

That said, several privately funded or volunteer initiatives such as the Tau Zero Foundation, Project Icarus and Breakthrough Starshot have emerged in recent years, each hoping to bring us a little bit closer to reaching across the cosmos. The discovery in August (2016) of an Earth-sized planet orbiting our nearest star has also raised fresh hopes about visiting an alien world.

Interstellar spacecraft will be one of the topics discussed at BBC Future’s World-Changing Ideas Summit in Sydney in November. Is travelling to other galaxies possible? And if so, what kinds of spacecraft might we need to achieve it? Read on to get up to (warp) speed:

WHERE WOULD WE GO?

Where wouldn’t we go? There are more stars in the Universe than there are grains of sand on Earth – around 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 – and billions of these are estimated to have one to three planets in the so-called ‘Goldilocks’ zone: not too hot, not too cold.

Proxima b is in the right temperature range for liquid water, which is a useful proxy for habitability

As we’re just starting out, the best contender so far is our nearest stellar neighbour – the triple star system of Alpha Centauri, 4.37 light-years away. This year, astronomers at the European Southern Observatory discovered an Earth-sized planet orbiting Alpha Centauri’s red dwarf star Proxima Centauri. The planet, named Proxima b, is at least 1.3 times the mass of the Earth but has a very tight orbit around Proxima Centauri, taking just 11 Earth days to complete the trip. What has astronomers and exoplanet hunters especially hot under the collar is that this planet is in the right temperature range for liquid water, which is a useful proxy for habitability.

The downside is we don’t know if it has an atmosphere, and given its closeness to Proxima Centauri – closer than the orbit of Mercury around our Sun – it would likely be exposed to dangerous solar flares and radiation. It is also tidally-locked, which means the planet always presents the same face to its star; something that would completely alter our notions of night and day.

HOW WOULD WE GET THERE?

That’s the $64 trillion question. Even at the fastest speeds of our current technology, a quick jaunt to check out Proxima b would see us arriving in around 18,000 years, by which time there’s every chance our Earth-bound descendants would have arrived there well ahead of us and grabbed all the glory. But many smart minds – and deep pockets – are being turned to the challenge of finding a faster way to cross vast distances of space.

Breakthrough Starshot – a $100 million initiative privately funded by Russian billionaires Yuri and Julia Milner – is focusing on propelling a tiny unmanned probe by hitting its extremely lightweight sail with a powerful Earth-based laser. The idea is that if the spacecraft is small enough – and we’re talking barely a gram – and the sail light enough, the impact of the laser will be enough to gradually accelerate the craft to around one-fifth of the speed of light, taking it to Alpha Centauri in around 20 years.

The Milners are counting on miniaturisation technologies to enable this tiny craft to carry a camera, thrusters, a power supply, communication and navigation equipment so it can report on what it sees as it flashes past Proxima b. Hopefully the news will be good, because that will lay the foundation for the next and more difficult stage of interstellar travel: people-moving.

WHAT ABOUT WARP DRIVE?

Star Trek made it all look so easy, but everything we currently know about the laws of physics tells us that faster-than-light travel – or even travel at the speed of light – is not possible. Not that science is throwing in the towel. Inspired by another propulsion system that has captured the imagine of science fiction creators, Nasa’s Evolutionary Xenon Thruster project is developing an ion engine which is hoped to accelerate a spacecraft to speeds up to 90,000mph (145,000km/h) using only a fraction of the fuel of a conventional rocket.

But even at those speeds, we won’t be getting far out of the Solar System within a single generation of spacefarers. Until we work out how to warp time and space, interstellar travel is going to be a very slow boat to the future. It might even be better to think of that travel period as the end itself, rather than a means to an end.

The myths and reality about interstellar travel


ME: Doesn't sound like interstellar travel is going to happen for quite some time. For us anyway. But that's not to say another older race of beings out there somewhere that had a head start on us for a few million years give or take may have figured out a way to create and use worm holes or warp drives (queue the ST music). My personal opinion is that as a species we need to develop ourselves in social, non-technical aspects before we start moving off the planet in numbers. I.E., stop the wars, clean up the place, and ca the BS. We still got some growing up to do, and it could be that one or more advanced species from out there somewhere are keeping an eye on us. Let's hope they ain't Klingons.

Re the possibility of warp speeds in space travel, please see my Post #282. Not only has science determined that warp speed and multiple warp speed is possible, but they know how it would work. We just haven't developed the technology to achieve it yet. But now that we know it is possible and how it can be done, you can be sure there are visionary technicians and scientists figuring that out. Will no doubt take some time as do all major technological breakthroughs, but I do not have a doubt in the world that it is possible and I also have strong confidence that we will most likely do it.

I'll just politely disagree, I don't think warp speeds are possible or plausible just yet. And IMHO won't be any time soon. Wouldn't be surprised if eventually we crack that problem and all the others that deal with interstellar travel.

We can certainly disagree. But I bet if you saw that scientific documentary at the museum, you would not be saying that warp speeds are neither plausible nor possible. I am convinced they are. We are surely some time out perfecting the technology to achieve them, but I would bet the farm that they will be achieved certainly within the next generation or two if not this one. Once the theory is produced, there are always going going to be visionaries who will set about the task to prove it.

 

[alang1216]

Population issues may end up pushing space exploration and human interstellar travel in the future.

No, as societies get richer the birth rate shrinks. I think it more likely that political or religious zeal will drive any colonization.

 

[alang1216]

I don't think we are alone but I'm in no hurry to meet a technologically superior race that will wipe us out in order to take control of our planet

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

It is logical to me. Any world population that developed technology that would get them from their home planet to this one is most likely a population that has learned to live cooperatively, constructively, peacefully. Otherwise it would have destroyed themselves which is the ultimate fate of humankind if we fail to learn to do that given our continuous efforts to develop bigger and better technology that would make our extinction/obliteration possible.

No matter what they are, such an advanced society would have little use for our little ball of rock. There is nothing special about it, even within our own solar system, except us of course.

 

[Montrovant]

Population issues may end up pushing space exploration and human interstellar travel in the future.

No, as societies get richer the birth rate shrinks. I think it more likely that political or religious zeal will drive any colonization.

Why assume societies will be getting richer?

 

[Montrovant]

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

It is logical to me. Any world population that developed technology that would get them from their home planet to this one is most likely a population that has learned to live cooperatively, constructively, peacefully. Otherwise it would have destroyed themselves which is the ultimate fate of humankind if we fail to learn to do that given our continuous efforts to develop bigger and better technology that would make our extinction/obliteration possible.

No matter what they are, such an advanced society would have little use for our little ball of rock. There is nothing special about it, even within our own solar system, except us of course.

I don't think we can have any idea what another advanced civilization might want.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think it highly likely we have already met so technologically superior race that has had us under surveillance for some time now. I am pretty sure if their intent was to wipe us out and take control of our planet they would have already done so.

I like to think such an advanced species has already made most of its mistakes and has learned how to live together cooperative and constructively, i.e. is past its predatory stage. They probably would be watching to be sure we also learn that before our technology becomes advanced enough to be a threat to others.

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

It is logical to me. Any world population that developed technology that would get them from their home planet to this one is most likely a population that has learned to live cooperatively, constructively, peacefully. Otherwise it would have destroyed themselves which is the ultimate fate of humankind if we fail to learn to do that given our continuous efforts to develop bigger and better technology that would make our extinction/obliteration possible.

No matter what they are, such an advanced society would have little use for our little ball of rock. There is nothing special about it, even within our own solar system, except us of course.

I like what Starman said in the movie: "We are interested in your species. You are like no other and you would be surprised how many there are. Intelligent but savage. You are all so alive. . . .(what is beautiful about us Earthlings). . .you are at your best when things are worst."

Fiction yes. But I like to think it could have been real.

 

[Foxfyre]

That's a dangerous assumption,

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

It is logical to me. Any world population that developed technology that would get them from their home planet to this one is most likely a population that has learned to live cooperatively, constructively, peacefully. Otherwise it would have destroyed themselves which is the ultimate fate of humankind if we fail to learn to do that given our continuous efforts to develop bigger and better technology that would make our extinction/obliteration possible.

No matter what they are, such an advanced society would have little use for our little ball of rock. There is nothing special about it, even within our own solar system, except us of course.

I don't think we can have any idea what another advanced civilization might want.

Probably true. Unless there is a cohesiveness throughout the universe and beings out there aren't all that different from us--they want food, shelter, purpose, love, happiness. . .

 

[Montrovant]

Perhaps. But it is a highly logical one.

assuming an alien rice will be logical and compassionate is not logical it is idealistic

It is logical to me. Any world population that developed technology that would get them from their home planet to this one is most likely a population that has learned to live cooperatively, constructively, peacefully. Otherwise it would have destroyed themselves which is the ultimate fate of humankind if we fail to learn to do that given our continuous efforts to develop bigger and better technology that would make our extinction/obliteration possible.

No matter what they are, such an advanced society would have little use for our little ball of rock. There is nothing special about it, even within our own solar system, except us of course.

I don't think we can have any idea what another advanced civilization might want.

Probably true. Unless there is a cohesiveness throughout the universe and beings out there aren't all that different from us--they want food, shelter, purpose, love, happiness. . .

It could be. We have so little information to go on, only what we see on Earth. Maybe there is life throughout the universe, and it's pretty similar to ours. Maybe we are an anomaly, and life almost never occurs. Maybe there is plenty of life, but of a form or with drives that are completely alien to us. So many possibilities, and maybe so many no one has even considered. It makes for a lot of good science fiction, at least!

 

[alang1216]

Why assume societies will be getting richer?

That has been the trend for the past 8,000 years.

 

[alang1216]

I don't think we can have any idea what another advanced civilization might want.

We can't know what they will want but we can guess what they'll need. And I don't see any need that only Earth could satisfy.