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It has been said that failed behaviors naturally lead to failure and successful behaviors naturally lead to success? Are successful behaviors universal? In other words, do they withstand the test of time? Have they always been successful? Will they always be successful?
 

ABikerSailor

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I don't think that you can make the case for there being a universal successful behavior, because as cultures and societies evolve over time, so do the ways people become successful in them.

Several centuries ago, if you were a great hunter, you were considered to be an important member of society. Today? Not so much, because of the way we now get our food and because of the tech we also now have.

Now? You'd be better off being a computer whiz than a good hunter.
 
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I don't think that you can make the case for there being a universal successful behavior, because as cultures and societies evolve over time, so do the ways people become successful in them.

Several centuries ago, if you were a great hunter, you were considered to be an important member of society. Today? Not so much, because of the way we now get our food and because of the tech we also now have.

Now? You'd be better off being a computer whiz than a good hunter.
Ok, which one is more successful? Honesty of dishonesty?
 

ABikerSailor

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I don't think that you can make the case for there being a universal successful behavior, because as cultures and societies evolve over time, so do the ways people become successful in them.

Several centuries ago, if you were a great hunter, you were considered to be an important member of society. Today? Not so much, because of the way we now get our food and because of the tech we also now have.

Now? You'd be better off being a computer whiz than a good hunter.
Ok, which one is more successful? Honesty of dishonesty?

Again, depends on the situation you're in. If you're talking to your doctor? Honesty is always the best policy.

However.............if you are fighting a war, dishonesty can have it's uses.
 
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I don't think that you can make the case for there being a universal successful behavior, because as cultures and societies evolve over time, so do the ways people become successful in them.

Several centuries ago, if you were a great hunter, you were considered to be an important member of society. Today? Not so much, because of the way we now get our food and because of the tech we also now have.

Now? You'd be better off being a computer whiz than a good hunter.
Ok, which one is more successful? Honesty of dishonesty?

Again, depends on the situation you're in. If you're talking to your doctor? Honesty is always the best policy.

However.............if you are fighting a war, dishonesty can have it's uses.
Do you think war is an exception or the rule?
 

ABikerSailor

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I don't think that you can make the case for there being a universal successful behavior, because as cultures and societies evolve over time, so do the ways people become successful in them.

Several centuries ago, if you were a great hunter, you were considered to be an important member of society. Today? Not so much, because of the way we now get our food and because of the tech we also now have.

Now? You'd be better off being a computer whiz than a good hunter.
Ok, which one is more successful? Honesty of dishonesty?

Again, depends on the situation you're in. If you're talking to your doctor? Honesty is always the best policy.

However.............if you are fighting a war, dishonesty can have it's uses.
Do you think war is an exception or the rule?

Well considering that humans are hard wired to compete, conflict is going to just be a fact of life. But, if we are capable of reaching higher, we can arrange a peaceful solution to conflict, but that is more the exception than the rule I'm afraid, because people in power tend to always want more.
 
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I don't think that you can make the case for there being a universal successful behavior, because as cultures and societies evolve over time, so do the ways people become successful in them.

Several centuries ago, if you were a great hunter, you were considered to be an important member of society. Today? Not so much, because of the way we now get our food and because of the tech we also now have.

Now? You'd be better off being a computer whiz than a good hunter.
Ok, which one is more successful? Honesty of dishonesty?

Again, depends on the situation you're in. If you're talking to your doctor? Honesty is always the best policy.

However.............if you are fighting a war, dishonesty can have it's uses.
Do you think war is an exception or the rule?

Well considering that humans are hard wired to compete, conflict is going to just be a fact of life. But, if we are capable of reaching higher, we can arrange a peaceful solution to conflict, but that is more the exception than the rule I'm afraid, because people in power tend to always want more.
I see, so you believe that any conflict can be considered to be war and you belief that being dishonest is a successful behavior. I guess I see it a little differently. I believe that war is war and not everyday conflict. I believe that as a rule people who behave honestly rather than dishonestly will end up with better outcomes in almost everything they do from personal relationships to business. But hey, if you want to argue against these self evident beliefs, it is your mistake to make.

So are you a pretty dishonest person in your day to day life? Do you find that that works for you?
 

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I don't think that you can make the case for there being a universal successful behavior, because as cultures and societies evolve over time, so do the ways people become successful in them.

Several centuries ago, if you were a great hunter, you were considered to be an important member of society. Today? Not so much, because of the way we now get our food and because of the tech we also now have.

Now? You'd be better off being a computer whiz than a good hunter.
Ok, which one is more successful? Honesty of dishonesty?

Again, depends on the situation you're in. If you're talking to your doctor? Honesty is always the best policy.

However.............if you are fighting a war, dishonesty can have it's uses.
Do you think war is an exception or the rule?

Well considering that humans are hard wired to compete, conflict is going to just be a fact of life. But, if we are capable of reaching higher, we can arrange a peaceful solution to conflict, but that is more the exception than the rule I'm afraid, because people in power tend to always want more.
I see, so you believe that any conflict can be considered to be war and you belief that being dishonest is a successful behavior. I guess I see it a little differently. I believe that war is war and not everyday conflict. I believe that as a rule people who behave honestly rather than dishonestly will end up with better outcomes in almost everything they do from personal relationships to business. But hey, if you want to argue against these self evident beliefs, it is your mistake to make.

So are you a pretty dishonest person in your day to day life? Do you find that that works for you?

You know, I've seen the way you act in your other threads, and have seen you get your ass handed to you for being stupid by other members. I was hoping that this would be an interesting conversation and there may be something that I could learn from you, but sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case.

I never said that war was an everyday thing. I said that because humans are hard wired to compete there is always going to be conflict, and if we are able to appeal to our higher natures, we are able to resolve things peacefully, but unfortunately, not everyone thinks that way.

I also said that people in power always tend to want more, and that in and of itself will lead to a conflict that could escalate into war. Just look around you today, and you can see evidence of it everywhere.

Yes, generally people who are honest will have better outcomes, but then again, that also depends where they are at. If you are in a population of people where dishonesty is the rule rather than the exception, and you are an honest person, you will get taken advantage of.

But, in certain situations like war, dishonesty can be useful to misdirect the enemy so that you can win.

Unfortunately, because of the human condition and the way we operate, conflict will always be with us, and because there will be conflict, there will be war.

If you want to continue having this conversation, lay off the insults and try to comprehend what I'm actually saying, because if you can't talk politely and intelligently about this, I'm outta this thread because you have nothing to offer.
 
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You know, I've seen the way you act in your other threads, and have seen you get your ass handed to you for being stupid by other members. I was hoping that this would be an interesting conversation and there may be something that I could learn from you, but sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case.

First of all if that is what you have seen then I question your objectivity. Secondly, I'm not the one who is literally arguing that being dishonest is a successful behavior, you are. So maybe you ought to consider your position before you blame my pointing out the error of your position. BTW, is this you handing me my ass?
 
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I never said that war was an everyday thing. I said that because humans are hard wired to compete there is always going to be conflict, and if we are able to appeal to our higher natures, we are able to resolve things peacefully, but unfortunately, not everyone thinks that way.

Great, then why are you arguing that dishonesty is a successful behavior based on a fringe argument?
 
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I also said that people in power always tend to want more, and that in and of itself will lead to a conflict that could escalate into war. Just look around you today, and you can see evidence of it everywhere.

Sure. So what? It should be pretty apparent that honesty beats dishonesty hands down. You don't need to look around. Look at yourself. Which behavior do you choose? Honesty or dishonesty? Then ask yourself why?
 
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Yes, generally people who are honest will have better outcomes, but then again, that also depends where they are at. If you are in a population of people where dishonesty is the rule rather than the exception, and you are an honest person, you will get taken advantage of.
Maybe you will and maybe you won't. Does that matter to you? Are you only honest because it benefits you? But putting that aside, where is this land of dishonesty anyway? And why do you believe that honest people get taken advantage of? You may be confusing honest people with stupid people because I believe I can be honest and not taken advantage of.

And lastly, thank you for acknowledging that as a rule people who are honest will have better outcomes.
 
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Unfortunately, because of the human condition and the way we operate, conflict will always be with us, and because there will be conflict, there will be war.

If you want to continue having this conversation, lay off the insults and try to comprehend what I'm actually saying, because if you can't talk politely and intelligently about this, I'm outta this thread because you have nothing to offer.

I didn't insult you. You took what I wrote as an insult. Can you show me where the insult was? Because when I wrote THE QUESTION, "So are you a pretty dishonest person in your day to day life? Do you find that that works for you?" It was asked to show you the incongruity of your argument. It should not have been hard for you to look at your own life and know that two honest people will always have a better relationship than two dishonest people. You really did not need to look any further for the answer.
 

ABikerSailor

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Well, it looks like there isn't going to be any intelligent conversation here, so you can just talk to yourself.

/unsubscribe.
 

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It should be pretty apparent that honesty beats dishonesty hands down.


just curious, how would you know ... and obviously in real life your maxim based on the experience of native Americans is absolutely idiotic.
 
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It should be pretty apparent that honesty beats dishonesty hands down.


just curious, how would you know ... and obviously in real life your maxim based on the experience of native Americans is absolutely idiotic.
You could make that same argument for all of humanity. All lands were taken from someone.

What I am discussing is a much more personal message. Christ's message was also a personal message.
 

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It has been said that failed behaviors naturally lead to failure and successful behaviors naturally lead to success? Are successful behaviors universal? In other words, do they withstand the test of time? Have they always been successful? Will they always be successful?
Behaviors fail due to surrounding circumstances. Just look at someone with super bad behavior who was successful, Donald Trump.
 
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“Virtue is more to man than either water or fire. I have seen men die from treading on water and fire, but I have never seen a man die from treading the course of virtue.” Confucius
 
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If you are virtuous, Confucius argued, people will be attracted to you (and, if you are a ruler, your government), willing to provide you with help and information, and happily follow orders. (1:10, Analects; 4:25, Analects; 2:3, Analects)
Virtue is not for the sake of getting material rewards. One should not be extravagant or self serving. Self cultivation is done for the betterment of the rest of society. Confucius said that "In serving one's ruler one deals reverently with the tasks involved and makes the livelihood involved a secondary consideration" (15:38, Analects), and "A public servant who is intent on the Way, but is ashamed of bad clothes and bad food, is not at all fit to be consulted" (4:9, Analects).

What Confucius Thought
 

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