Are Democrats for The Middle Class?

[j-mac]

Never mind that the effect of Democrat policies over the last 6+ years has been the decimation of the middle class. We wont go there.
But Dems are supposed to be the party of the lower class. Yet they constantly pander to the "middle class", as we see with Obama's new giveaways for community college and the like. Hillary is pro middle class. Kerry ran on a middle class tax cut. Now of course they cant do that since most middle class voters pay no income tax so they have to go for giveaways like student debt forgiveness. But I digress.
The issue is that about 98% of Americans see themselves as middle class. So Dems have to craft their rhetoric, if not their polciies, to supporting the middle class,e ven though more traditionally they were the party of the working class.
But in reality they are the party of the special interests. They are the party of the race pimps, gays, trial lawyers, barking-mad eco-nazis, peaceniks, ivory tower eggheads and the like. Certainly nothing fo rth emiddle class, whom they regularly despise and jeer. Recall Obama's "bitterly clinging" rhetoric.

Hmmm. Looking at my middle class W-2 right now...Sure looks like I paid over $10K in income tax.

Yes we should absolutely believe you because you're posting anonymously on a message board.
And even if true I assume not everyone in teh US who gets a W2 paid over 10k in income taxes.

I don't care what you believe. If you're a middle class working guy that made about $60k you paid about $10k in tax withholding.

 

[BULLDOG]

I was a business owner....several times over.
Most of my CLIENTS asked for proof of my insurances before they signed contracts with me.....in NYS, the state requires proof of insurances to maintain ones license to operate a business in NYS....
Most who do not have insurance is usually a result of them allowing the insurance to lapse due to non payment....but at the anniversary, they need to produce valid insurance.

So what you're saying is that while it is estimated that 14% of all drivers don't have auto insurance (AAA figures) for the cars they drive to work, the cars they drive at work are nearly 100% insured; that somehow this 14% of the population is more responsible in one phase of their lives than in the other? I guess I could believe that if I were an optimist. I discount it however on the basis of my being a realist. But lets assume you're right...they are just too busy to attend to the detail of paying for their state mandated insurance.

How many have just the legally bare minimum of coverage--as a percentage--would you say? What did you cover over and beyond the State minimum requirement?

In addition to my earlier response Candycorn...
I do not know this as fact....but it is most definitely an educated guess...

of the 14% private drivers that are not insured....I bet over 90% of them do not own a business.
So yes, I believe that the 14% stat is not relevant when discussing business owners.

Curious...do you know of anyone without auto insurance? I don't.

It happens all the time. People lose their auto insurance for non payment of premium and the like. What was the point here again?

Candycorn believes that because 14% of people out there operate without insurance, the same is likely true for businesses...and I am trying to explain to her that businesses have more reasons to keep their insurance up to date.

They have every incentive because if they have an incident without insurance they will be sued and lose their business.
Now, some businesses do not have insurance because they self-insure, maintaining reserves to pay off smaller claims.
Candycorn is a class A moron and the intellectual equivalent of decayed dog shit.

And you're another dumb teabaggger. Forbes says that 8 out of 10 businesses fail. Do you think that none of the failing businesses ever drop their insurance to try to stay viable for a little while longer? Get a clue dumbass.

 

[Jarhead]

They put those signs there in hopes of fooling the people with broken windshields. A sign that said " Watch closely at red lights. Not responsible for damage when I run one." would be just as truthful.

Are you certain that there are no laws that protect companies from damage? I ask because it sound precisely like something a republican would do in this climate of being "business friendly".

I recall back when I worked in Texas, we had this thing called a "vaxi pak". A "Vaxi Pak" stores vaccine that needs to be frozen. The way it does this is by an, admittedly genius, system of ice bricks and thermal walls that end up looking something like this:

Anyway, as you can tell the "payload" was 10% of the space where as these bricks were the majority of the load. The State magically mandated that we had to buy these things to transport vaccine to and from the freezer out to satellite facilities. Each set (cooler and 5 bricks) costs about $300.00. You could get about 50 vials in one Pak.

To absolutely no-one's suprise, when we received VFC (Vaccines for Children) varicella, the State sent the vaccine to us in a styrofoam cooler with nothing but wet ice bricks around them...thus avoiding the costs..

I disagree. I completely disagree and I will assume you have not put thought into what you said as I see you way too "in the know" to not realize that whether or not the truck has the right to do it, if they were to be hit with a damage claim, the company would pay nothing for they have (by law) insurance that covers things like that. There is E and O insurance, liability insurance, and basic auto insurance....
So to say "it sounds like something the republicans would do to be business friendly" is way off base. Republicans are not in the business of passing legislation to make business exempt from legitimate claims. They are more wrapped up in the populace not being able to capitalize on businesses with frivolous claims.
Albeit, that battle has been lost....people nowadays sue and usually get a settlement for just about any mistakes that are their own fault.

Insurance just pays the bill. It doesn't relieve the truck from liability. This is about a dumb sign that trucks have to try to trick people out of demanding repairs caused by the truck.

Hypthetically....

If you saw a sign like that on the road and there was a footnote beneath the sign that cited the law....

Who would you think proposed the law, backed it, shepherded it through the legislature and sign it:

Democrats or Republicans?

Not much doubt about who would support that. The party of the rich. The republicans.

you know...two can play those hypothetical games....

Hypothetically, if there was a sign on the window of the local unemployment office that had a footnote on it that said "the law now allows for anyone of any background with or without an ID can receive unemployment benefits".....

Who do you think proposed the law, backed it shepherded it through the legislature and sign it:

Democrats or Republicans?

No, I do not think democrats would sign a law like that just as I know the republicans would not sign a law like the one cited above.

Time to grow up.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Try to understand what politics is all about. Politics is about greasing the wheel that squeaks the loudest. They gear everything towards getting re-elected. The class that needs attention, is the class that gets attention. And, it's different each election cycle. When the economy is in the tank, politicians play to the poor and needy. When the wealthy are losing money, politicians play to the wealthy. All of this is common knowledge. Look what happened when Wall Street needed a bailout. Look what happened when Clinton ran on "It's the economy, stupid" platform. Please try to understand that politics is a game, nothing more. They will play to whatever class needs sympathy and kind words. Also, please understand that the difference between Democrats and Republicans is so narrow, that you'd have trouble slipping a piece of paper between them.

Professional politicians will do whatever they have to do to climb the political ladder, repay favors, get a pat on the back, and put down the other party. It's nothing more than a game, honestly it is. So, to address your post yet again, Democrats will play to the ones ( class ) they feel with give them the greatest positive response, especially right before election time. One time it may be the wealthy that they feel needs help ( sympathy, understanding ), and yet another time it may be the less fortunate, the elderly, or the Vets. Professional politicians will say and do whatever they have to do in order to survive in Washington. All of them treasure their position in "The Washington Brotherhood".

I responded to your root post the way it read. What else were you expecting? What kind of response were you looking for? Did I not address the position of the Democrats in relation to the wealthy?

Which candidate ran on giving more attention to the upper class? Please cite the campaign.

I give up, but I'm sure that you'll tell me

Your surrender is acknowledged here.
There arent any, is the answer. No pol runs on benefitting the upper class.
The mystery is why Dems run on benefitting the middle class when their actual constituency is a rag tag of special interest groups, some under class, some upper class.
It's actually no mystery, as I mentioned. 90% of people think of themselves as middle class and that's where the votes are.

FYI - There was no "surrender". Now, do not Republicans do the exact same thing? Do not Republicans cater to the ones they feel will give them the greater support? Name a party that doesn't cater to the ones offering the greater support? Can you? So, as I have repeatedly said, both parties play the exact same game. So, your point about Democrats catering to the top 1% becomes a moot point. Do Republicans snub the top 1%?

Republicans actually pursue policies that favor the middle class. They are not a collection of special interests, like the Dems.
But this isnt about Repiublicans and your deflection from your defeat is noted.

Now you're getting silly. I have told you already, I believe that it was yesterday, that I do not play games on forums. I do not keep score. I do not consider conversations as games. I am not defeated, not in the least. I have stated my case, and I stand by what I have said. Now, if you want to run up flags, declare a national holiday, and sit by your window waiting for the parades to pass by, by all means do it. But, I have tried very hard to explain what takes place in politics. If it went over your head, I am truly sorry, I know of no other way to explain it. Go gloat, pop the champagne and kick back.

 

[The Rabbi]

Which candidate ran on giving more attention to the upper class? Please cite the campaign.

I give up, but I'm sure that you'll tell me

Your surrender is acknowledged here.
There arent any, is the answer. No pol runs on benefitting the upper class.
The mystery is why Dems run on benefitting the middle class when their actual constituency is a rag tag of special interest groups, some under class, some upper class.
It's actually no mystery, as I mentioned. 90% of people think of themselves as middle class and that's where the votes are.

FYI - There was no "surrender". Now, do not Republicans do the exact same thing? Do not Republicans cater to the ones they feel will give them the greater support? Name a party that doesn't cater to the ones offering the greater support? Can you? So, as I have repeatedly said, both parties play the exact same game. So, your point about Democrats catering to the top 1% becomes a moot point. Do Republicans snub the top 1%?

Republicans actually pursue policies that favor the middle class. They are not a collection of special interests, like the Dems.
But this isnt about Repiublicans and your deflection from your defeat is noted.

Now you're getting silly. I have told you already, I believe that it was yesterday, that I do not play games on forums. I do not keep score. I do not consider conversations as games. I am not defeated, not in the least. I have stated my case, and I stand by what I have said. Now, if you want to run up flags, declare a national holiday, and sit by your window waiting for the parades to pass by, by all means do it. But, I have tried very hard to explain what takes place in politics. If it went over your head, I am truly sorry, I know of no other way to explain it. Go gloat, pop the champagne and kick back.

You have misunderstood and responded inappropriately and deflected every time you tried to engage. What does that really say about you?

 

[Jarhead]

Never mind that the effect of Democrat policies over the last 6+ years has been the decimation of the middle class. We wont go there.
But Dems are supposed to be the party of the lower class. Yet they constantly pander to the "middle class", as we see with Obama's new giveaways for community college and the like. Hillary is pro middle class. Kerry ran on a middle class tax cut. Now of course they cant do that since most middle class voters pay no income tax so they have to go for giveaways like student debt forgiveness. But I digress.
The issue is that about 98% of Americans see themselves as middle class. So Dems have to craft their rhetoric, if not their polciies, to supporting the middle class,e ven though more traditionally they were the party of the working class.
But in reality they are the party of the special interests. They are the party of the race pimps, gays, trial lawyers, barking-mad eco-nazis, peaceniks, ivory tower eggheads and the like. Certainly nothing fo rth emiddle class, whom they regularly despise and jeer. Recall Obama's "bitterly clinging" rhetoric.

Hmmm. Looking at my middle class W-2 right now...Sure looks like I paid over $10K in income tax.

Yes we should absolutely believe you because you're posting anonymously on a message board.
And even if true I assume not everyone in teh US who gets a W2 paid over 10k in income taxes.

I don't care what you believe. If you're a middle class working guy that made about $60k you paid about $10k in tax withholding.

It really depends on many factors. A single guy....with no other deductions would have an AGI of about 55K.....your federal income tax is about $9,500.
If married filing as head of household with 2 children....your agi is about 45K and your federal income tax is about 6K.
If same but you also made an IRA contribution of 6500 (max) your agi is about 38,500 and your federal income tax is about 5K.

So if you made 60K and your fed tax was 10K...then you are single, you do not have a home, you had no capital losses and you did not make an IRA contribution....correct?

 

[Sonny Clark]

I give up, but I'm sure that you'll tell me

Your surrender is acknowledged here.
There arent any, is the answer. No pol runs on benefitting the upper class.
The mystery is why Dems run on benefitting the middle class when their actual constituency is a rag tag of special interest groups, some under class, some upper class.
It's actually no mystery, as I mentioned. 90% of people think of themselves as middle class and that's where the votes are.

FYI - There was no "surrender". Now, do not Republicans do the exact same thing? Do not Republicans cater to the ones they feel will give them the greater support? Name a party that doesn't cater to the ones offering the greater support? Can you? So, as I have repeatedly said, both parties play the exact same game. So, your point about Democrats catering to the top 1% becomes a moot point. Do Republicans snub the top 1%?

Republicans actually pursue policies that favor the middle class. They are not a collection of special interests, like the Dems.
But this isnt about Repiublicans and your deflection from your defeat is noted.

Now you're getting silly. I have told you already, I believe that it was yesterday, that I do not play games on forums. I do not keep score. I do not consider conversations as games. I am not defeated, not in the least. I have stated my case, and I stand by what I have said. Now, if you want to run up flags, declare a national holiday, and sit by your window waiting for the parades to pass by, by all means do it. But, I have tried very hard to explain what takes place in politics. If it went over your head, I am truly sorry, I know of no other way to explain it. Go gloat, pop the champagne and kick back.

You have misunderstood and responded inappropriately and deflected every time you tried to engage. What does that really say about you?

I have NOT deflected, not once. I have answered everyone of your questions, explained that all politicians do the same, and that when the top 1% need favors, no one is going to snub them, either party. I understood everything that you have said, everything. What do you feel I didn't understand? And, what does it say about you when you can't understand simple English? What does it say about your reading comprehension? Why must I repeat everything several times to you? Do you have anything new to add to this conversation? If not, I don't know what else to say in order to get you to understand how politics works in Washington.

 

[Ubiquitor]

It's always amusing when people argue about which party is for the middle class when the fact of the matter is neither is. They both want the middle class gone. They want the rich paying them and the poor begging them to vote to give them free stuff.

The GOP has a reputation of offering free stuff and that's why the poor vote for them?

No, that's why the rich vote for them.

Just so you understand without the spin...

It is not "the rich" vote for them.....

The "business owners" vote for them because the GOP believe that the backbone of the economy is the business owner and therefore they back legislation that is designed to make it easier for the business owner to thrive, thus opening the door to hiring people.

And yes, those people tend to be "the rich".....but my way is a more mature and less spun way of presenting it.

Putting aside that you contradicted yourself, the difference between the two parties is less and less each year. The fundamental difference is who they pay lip-service to. The bottom line is that neither party is actually for the middle class. People like Elizabeth Warren will pretend to be, but when push comes to shove she'll take the money and the cushy job over putting her words into action. All you have to do is follow the money and in the last election cycle the Dems actually passed the GOP in billionaire donors.

where did I contradict myself?

"It is not "the rich" vote for them....."

"The "business owners" vote for them..."

"And yes, those people tend to be 'the rich'."

 

[j-mac]

Never mind that the effect of Democrat policies over the last 6+ years has been the decimation of the middle class. We wont go there.
But Dems are supposed to be the party of the lower class. Yet they constantly pander to the "middle class", as we see with Obama's new giveaways for community college and the like. Hillary is pro middle class. Kerry ran on a middle class tax cut. Now of course they cant do that since most middle class voters pay no income tax so they have to go for giveaways like student debt forgiveness. But I digress.
The issue is that about 98% of Americans see themselves as middle class. So Dems have to craft their rhetoric, if not their polciies, to supporting the middle class,e ven though more traditionally they were the party of the working class.
But in reality they are the party of the special interests. They are the party of the race pimps, gays, trial lawyers, barking-mad eco-nazis, peaceniks, ivory tower eggheads and the like. Certainly nothing fo rth emiddle class, whom they regularly despise and jeer. Recall Obama's "bitterly clinging" rhetoric.

Hmmm. Looking at my middle class W-2 right now...Sure looks like I paid over $10K in income tax.

Yes we should absolutely believe you because you're posting anonymously on a message board.
And even if true I assume not everyone in teh US who gets a W2 paid over 10k in income taxes.

I don't care what you believe. If you're a middle class working guy that made about $60k you paid about $10k in tax withholding.

It really depends on many factors. A single guy....with no other deductions would have an AGI of about 55K.....your federal income tax is about $9,500.
If married filing as head of household with 2 children....your agi is about 45K and your federal income tax is about 6K.
If same but you also made an IRA contribution of 6500 (max) your agi is about 38,500 and your federal income tax is about 5K.

So if you made 60K and your fed tax was 10K...then you are single, you do not have a home, you had no capital losses and you did not make an IRA contribution....correct?

Nope, married, homeowner, no IRA, but i was speaking of my total withholding. Fed, state, SS, etc. Plus I haven't done my taxes yet this year so my net will be less than this, but I sure don't break even like Rabbi was saying

 

[S.J.]

There's no middle class for the Democrats, it's the poor (us) and the rich (them). No in between.

You seem as stupid as your rabbit buddy.

In case you missed some of the posts on here claiming how bad things are. Those are ALWAYS written by right winger lazy *****.

So there is a middle class and Dems populate it. There is an ultra rich class and the plutocrats of both parties populate it and there is the low or no class and thats where the Republicans will be found. Poor and unemployed and crying about it. Instead of getting off your asses and getting a job.

could't have said it better myself

Look, a moron patting another moron on the back. Isn't that cute?

 

[Jarhead]

Never mind that the effect of Democrat policies over the last 6+ years has been the decimation of the middle class. We wont go there.
But Dems are supposed to be the party of the lower class. Yet they constantly pander to the "middle class", as we see with Obama's new giveaways for community college and the like. Hillary is pro middle class. Kerry ran on a middle class tax cut. Now of course they cant do that since most middle class voters pay no income tax so they have to go for giveaways like student debt forgiveness. But I digress.
The issue is that about 98% of Americans see themselves as middle class. So Dems have to craft their rhetoric, if not their polciies, to supporting the middle class,e ven though more traditionally they were the party of the working class.
But in reality they are the party of the special interests. They are the party of the race pimps, gays, trial lawyers, barking-mad eco-nazis, peaceniks, ivory tower eggheads and the like. Certainly nothing fo rth emiddle class, whom they regularly despise and jeer. Recall Obama's "bitterly clinging" rhetoric.

Hmmm. Looking at my middle class W-2 right now...Sure looks like I paid over $10K in income tax.

Yes we should absolutely believe you because you're posting anonymously on a message board.
And even if true I assume not everyone in teh US who gets a W2 paid over 10k in income taxes.

I don't care what you believe. If you're a middle class working guy that made about $60k you paid about $10k in tax withholding.

It really depends on many factors. A single guy....with no other deductions would have an AGI of about 55K.....your federal income tax is about $9,500.
If married filing as head of household with 2 children....your agi is about 45K and your federal income tax is about 6K.
If same but you also made an IRA contribution of 6500 (max) your agi is about 38,500 and your federal income tax is about 5K.

So if you made 60K and your fed tax was 10K...then you are single, you do not have a home, you had no capital losses and you did not make an IRA contribution....correct?

Nope, married, homeowner, no IRA, but i was speaking of my total withholding. Fed, state, SS, etc. Plus I haven't done my taxes yet this year so my net will be less than this, but I sure don't break even like Rabbi was saying

well, married (7,500 for the two of you), with mortgage interest and real estate tax..(.say 15K ..a guess)....your taxable income is about $37,500....so your federal income tax as head of household is about $5,000. That includes your FICA contribution (social security). I am not sure what state you live in and as I said the interest and tax for your home was a guess.....but 10K seems a bit on the high side unless I overstated your mortagge and real estate tax.

 

[zeke]

Look, a moron patting another moron on the back. Isn't that cute?

Another of the low class/no class chimes in. Off work already? LMAO.

 

[OnePercenter]

But keep in mind that the evidence shows the real enemy of the middle class are Republicans/corporate America/wall street.

 

[Papageorgio]

But keep in mind that the evidence shows the real enemy of the middle class are Republicans/corporate America/wall street.

The evidence shows no such thing. The evidence shows that neither party is for the middle class. It shows that both parties ignore the middle class and their wants and needs.

The evidence show you are a liar.

 

[candycorn]

Are you certain that there are no laws that protect companies from damage? I ask because it sound precisely like something a republican would do in this climate of being "business friendly".

I recall back when I worked in Texas, we had this thing called a "vaxi pak". A "Vaxi Pak" stores vaccine that needs to be frozen. The way it does this is by an, admittedly genius, system of ice bricks and thermal walls that end up looking something like this:

Anyway, as you can tell the "payload" was 10% of the space where as these bricks were the majority of the load. The State magically mandated that we had to buy these things to transport vaccine to and from the freezer out to satellite facilities. Each set (cooler and 5 bricks) costs about $300.00. You could get about 50 vials in one Pak.

To absolutely no-one's suprise, when we received VFC (Vaccines for Children) varicella, the State sent the vaccine to us in a styrofoam cooler with nothing but wet ice bricks around them...thus avoiding the costs..

I disagree. I completely disagree and I will assume you have not put thought into what you said as I see you way too "in the know" to not realize that whether or not the truck has the right to do it, if they were to be hit with a damage claim, the company would pay nothing for they have (by law) insurance that covers things like that. There is E and O insurance, liability insurance, and basic auto insurance....
So to say "it sounds like something the republicans would do to be business friendly" is way off base. Republicans are not in the business of passing legislation to make business exempt from legitimate claims. They are more wrapped up in the populace not being able to capitalize on businesses with frivolous claims.
Albeit, that battle has been lost....people nowadays sue and usually get a settlement for just about any mistakes that are their own fault.

Insurance just pays the bill. It doesn't relieve the truck from liability. This is about a dumb sign that trucks have to try to trick people out of demanding repairs caused by the truck.

Hypthetically....

If you saw a sign like that on the road and there was a footnote beneath the sign that cited the law....

Who would you think proposed the law, backed it, shepherded it through the legislature and sign it:

Democrats or Republicans?

Not much doubt about who would support that. The party of the rich. The republicans.

you know...two can play those hypothetical games....

Hypothetically, if there was a sign on the window of the local unemployment office that had a footnote on it that said "the law now allows for anyone of any background with or without an ID can receive unemployment benefits".....

Who do you think proposed the law, backed it shepherded it through the legislature and sign it:

Democrats or Republicans?

No, I do not think democrats would sign a law like that just as I know the republicans would not sign a law like the one cited above.

Time to grow up.

I'm not a Democrat so I really do not think it applies to me. Your analogy is, however, absurd.

While you're asking about if people have car insurance, ask them if they would believe a republican could get behind such a measure and see what they say.

 

[JoeB131]

I think

What a joke....

Still not paying you rent on all that space I occupy in your head, buddy.

 

[billyerock1991]

There's no middle class for the Democrats, it's the poor (us) and the rich (them). No in between.

You seem as stupid as your rabbit buddy.

In case you missed some of the posts on here claiming how bad things are. Those are ALWAYS written by right winger lazy *****.

So there is a middle class and Dems populate it. There is an ultra rich class and the plutocrats of both parties populate it and there is the low or no class and thats where the Republicans will be found. Poor and unemployed and crying about it. Instead of getting off your asses and getting a job.

could't have said it better myself

Look, a moron patting another moron on the back. Isn't that cute?

look at a idiot trying to look clever... failing big time...

 

[S.J.]

There's no middle class for the Democrats, it's the poor (us) and the rich (them). No in between.

You seem as stupid as your rabbit buddy.

In case you missed some of the posts on here claiming how bad things are. Those are ALWAYS written by right winger lazy *****.

So there is a middle class and Dems populate it. There is an ultra rich class and the plutocrats of both parties populate it and there is the low or no class and thats where the Republicans will be found. Poor and unemployed and crying about it. Instead of getting off your asses and getting a job.

could't have said it better myself

Look, a moron patting another moron on the back. Isn't that cute?

look at a idiot trying to look clever... failing big time...

Look, a moron butchering the English language again.

 

[billyerock1991]

There's no middle class for the Democrats, it's the poor (us) and the rich (them). No in between.

You seem as stupid as your rabbit buddy.

In case you missed some of the posts on here claiming how bad things are. Those are ALWAYS written by right winger lazy *****.

So there is a middle class and Dems populate it. There is an ultra rich class and the plutocrats of both parties populate it and there is the low or no class and thats where the Republicans will be found. Poor and unemployed and crying about it. Instead of getting off your asses and getting a job.

could't have said it better myself

Look, a moron patting another moron on the back. Isn't that cute?

look at a idiot trying to look clever... failing big time...

Look, a moron butchering the English language again.

look at an idiot trying to save face ... failing at every post you make ... tell us all hows it feels to be a huge loser... did your mother keep you locked in the basement too long??? was she that ashamed of you ??? when do you think she'll let you out...