Are conservatives smarter than liberals?

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Blather and bullshit.

There seem to be studies out there ....a host of them that make both sides of the argument.

Who can tell what is true and what is not.

I can... it's all very basic stuff. There's nothing complex about any of it.

 

[Bfgrn]

The individual issues are all too real: assaults on unions, public employees, women's rights, immigrants, the environment, health care, voting rights, food safety, pensions, prenatal care, science, public broadcasting, and on and on.

Unions are not under attack, they're archaic and counter-productive.

Public employees are not under attack, management of public employees which fails to hold them accountable, is rightly criticized, due to its destructive nature... see: Unions are archaic.

No one is attacking women's rights.... you're likely trying to argue that a right exists to murder another due to one's behavior having conceived the other, thus demanding a right to murder another, for whom you're solely responsible, as a means to avoid bearing responsibility for one's actions.

No one is attacking immigrants... you're likely trying to conflate legal immigration with the destructive ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. It's illegal for a host of sound reasons.

No one is advocating for destruction of the environment.

The only people known to have harmed healthcare in the US are those who are responsible for using DECEIT AND FRAUD as a means to INFLUENCE THE STUPID.

No one is contesting voter's rights... you're likely confusing voter's rights with the voter's responsibility to identify themselves through the use of a credible ID.

And so on... with each and every one of the other issues you noted.

"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

LOL...you say unions are not under attack...then you attack unions.

Public employee are under attack as are unions...see Wisconsin and teachers

You hide behind 'legal' on immigration, then totally disregard the law on abortion.

Immigrants are being attacked...see Arizona S.B 1070 racial profiling law written by a white supremacist Republican.

The environment is being attacked...see US House bill H.R. 2250, a dangerous bill that allows mercury and other toxic air pollution to pour freely from thousands of the nation's worst air polluters. H.R. 2250 exempts industrial boilers (the on-site power plants at major industrial plants) and industrial waste incinerators from the Clean Air Act's pollution control requirements. It encourages companies to burn tires, plastics, used chemicals, spent solvents and other industrial wastes without doing anything to control the resulting toxic air pollution.

The deceit in our health care system is Wall Street investors who have created real death panels by punishing any insurance corporation that spends too much of premiums on treatments. And hospitals and doctors who rip off taxpayers.

Voter suppression by Republicans goes way beyond voter ID. It is about making voting a day long gauntlet with long lines and not enough polling places.


"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

From Page 2 of HR -2250
For each regulation the EPA promulgates, H.R. 2250 requires the EPA Administrator to establish
compliance standards and allow at least five years for an effective date and take into account:
♦ the costs of achieving emissions reductions;
♦ any non-air quality health and environmental impact and energy requirements of the
standards and requirements;
♦ the feasibility of implementing the standards and requirements, including the time needed
to obtain necessary permit approvals and procure, install, and test control equipment;
♦ the availability of equipment, suppliers, and labor, given the requirements of the
regulation and other proposed or finalized regulations of the Environmental Protection
Agency; and
♦ potential net employment impacts.
Finally, the bill requires emissions standards to be consistent with standards for all other air
pollutants regulated by the rule for a source category. The administrator is also required to take
into account variability in actual source performance, source design, fuels, inputs, controls, ability
to measure the pollutant emissions, and operating conditions.
Courtesy ....house.gov
So your alarmist rhetoric has been dumped upon like that corner of the dog park.
All this law does is place checks on the EPA. Checks that should be in place anyway.
It was Obama and his obsession with ramming through his "green" crap who cut the EPA loose from Congressional oversight.
Something he did by executive fiat.
On abortion.....Ok so where are laws permitting abortion being violated? And name them? As far as I know, due to Roe, abortion is the law of the land. It is permitted. However, there is nothing in that SCOTUS opinion that mandates states cannot regulate the activity as they see fit.
Have you any evidence to present which supports your allegation that only republicans are committing voter suppression and making voting a day long gauntlet with long lines and not enough polling places?.....So where is this? Where is this being done?
Oh and are you implying that republican voters have more staying power that which allows them to wait on long lines to vote while democrat voters have no such endurance and find that they have better things to do than wait on line to vote?
Or are you just being ridiculous and making up this crap?
Now, go get the evidence. Form at least two independent sources. Links to blogs or opinion pieces will be dismissed.

Are you really unable to see what this is? It is a power play by big polluters and their lobbyists who own Republicans to castrate the EPA and make money without having to protect the public from harm. There is no need for 5 year effective dates or studies to regulate poisons we know are harmful to human beings.

You folks are terrorists

 

[Bfgrn]

Blather and bullshit.

There seem to be studies out there ....a host of them that make both sides of the argument.

Who can tell what is true and what is not.

I can... it's all very basic stuff. There's nothing complex about any of it.

No you can't. And you haven't deciphered anything yet.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You are exhibiting ZERO reasoning. Nature has nothing to do with human rights, and neither does God. How did God do protecting human rights in Nazi Germany? How is He doing in Iraq and Syria now??

God gives you your life, and the RIGHT to pursue the fulfillment of that life... which can ONLY be sustained BY BEARING OF THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND YOUR MEANS TO EXERCISE THAT RIGHT.

That the Nazis usurped the means of tens of millions to exercise their rights, in NO WAY stripped those people of their rights. Those people failed to bear their responsibility to defend their means to exercise their rights... and as result succumbed to the inevitable consequences of that failure.

We, the Americans... we destroyed the NAZIS by bearing our responsibilities to exercise our rights.

Just as we will do when we destroy you people, once sufficient numbers of you join with Islam, and cross that unknown line, looming out there in the inevitable future.

Here, allow me to show you what that looks like:

Are you really unable to see what this is? It is a power play by big polluters and their lobbyists who own Republicans to castrate the EPA and make money without having to protect the public from harm. There is no need for 5 year effective dates or studies to regulate poisons we know are harmful to human beings.

You folks are terrorists

There's NOTHING complex about ANY of this... yet is all seems completely beyond your limited intellectual means.

 

[Wry Catcher]

When liberals have to LIE to trick their own base into supporting their policies, well there you have it.

Post the lies!

Ahahaha denial ^^^

No, it was a challenge. If you're going to post an allegation, you need to post probative evidence. Your response suggests you are a troll; be very careful, the society of trolls has standards, low, but higher than the tripe you've posted.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

No you can't. And you haven't deciphered anything yet.

LOL! Now isn't that PRECIOUS?

It feels that its own 'comprehension challenges' literally alter reality!

LMAO! How adorable is THAT?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

When liberals have to LIE to trick their own base into supporting their policies, well there you have it.

Post the lies!

Ahahaha denial ^^^

No, it was a challenge. If you're going to post an allegation, you need to post probative evidence. Your response suggests you are a troll; be very careful, the society of trolls has standards, low, but higher than the tripe you've posted.

Are you accusing someone else of 'trolling'? Even as you deny that Left-think lies?

Left-think? A set of ideas that could not exist in a reality absent deceit... you're asking for examples of Leftist Lies? the Ideology which rests upon three fundamental elements: Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... You are challenging your opposition to cite examples of LIES from that cult?

Fine...

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan"
"I didn't have sex with that woman"
"WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES [THE TRUTH] MAKE!!!??"
obamacare... IRS, Fast and Furious, Benghazi...

Anything gettin' through here?

 

[Bfgrn]

Again, EPIC fail. God does not interfere with the free will of man. He only has the final say. NO human rights are possible without government enforcing those rights. NONE, without government, got it?

Well, sound reasoning never requires validation, but it is always nice when validation comes along.

The above contribution, to which I am responding here, is a CLASSIC demonstration of why There are NO LEFTIST AMERICANS.

Nature precludes the means of one to adhere to the antithesis, which claiming adherence to the thesis. Simply can't be done.

You are exhibiting ZERO reasoning. Nature has nothing to do with human rights, and neither does God. How did God do protecting human rights in Nazi Germany? How is He doing in Iraq and Syria now??

God gives you your life, and the RIGHT to pursue the fulfillment of that life... which can ONLY be sustained BY BEARING OF THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND YOUR MEANS TO EXERCISE THAT RIGHT.

That the Nazis usurped the means of tens of millions to exercise their rights, in NO WAY stripped those people of their rights. Those people failed to bear their responsibility to defend their means to exercise their rights... and as result succumbed to the inevitable consequences of that failure.

We, the Americans... we destroyed the NAZIS by bearing our responsibilities to exercise our rights.

Just as we will do when we destroy you people, once sufficient numbers of you join with Islam, and cross that unknown line, looming out there in the inevitable future.

Here, allow me to show you what that looks like:

Are you really unable to see what this is? It is a power play by big polluters and their lobbyists who own Republicans to castrate the EPA and make money without having to protect the public from harm. There is no need for 5 year effective dates or studies to regulate poisons we know are harmful to human beings.

You folks are terrorists

There's NOTHING complex about ANY of this... yet is all seems completely beyond your limited intellectual means.

Blather and bullshit.

There seem to be studies out there ....a host of them that make both sides of the argument.

Who can tell what is true and what is not.

I can... it's all very basic stuff. There's nothing complex about any of it.

No you can't. And you haven't deciphered anything yet.

LOL! Now isn't that PRECIOUS?

It feels that its own 'comprehension challenges' literally alter reality!

LMAO! How adorable is THAT?

When liberals have to LIE to trick their own base into supporting their policies, well there you have it.

Post the lies!

Ahahaha denial ^^^

No, it was a challenge. If you're going to post an allegation, you need to post probative evidence. Your response suggests you are a troll; be very careful, the society of trolls has standards, low, but higher than the tripe you've posted.

Are you accusing someone else of 'trolling'? Even as you deny that Left-think lies?

Left-think? A set of ideas that could not exist in a reality absent deceit... you're asking for examples of Leftist Lies? the Ideology which rests upon three fundamental elements: Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... You are challenging your opposition to cite examples of LIES from that cult?

Fine...

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan"
"I didn't have sex with that woman"
"WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES [THE TRUTH] MAKE!!!??"
obamacare... IRS, Fast and Furious, Benghazi...

Anything gettin' through here?

Do you really believe you are making an argument?

You are chanting...LOL.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Again, EPIC fail. God does not interfere with the free will of man. He only has the final say. NO human rights are possible without government enforcing those rights. NONE, without government, got it?

Well, sound reasoning never requires validation, but it is always nice when validation comes along.

The above contribution, to which I am responding here, is a CLASSIC demonstration of why There are NO LEFTIST AMERICANS.

Nature precludes the means of one to adhere to the antithesis, which claiming adherence to the thesis. Simply can't be done.

You are exhibiting ZERO reasoning. Nature has nothing to do with human rights, and neither does God. How did God do protecting human rights in Nazi Germany? How is He doing in Iraq and Syria now??

God gives you your life, and the RIGHT to pursue the fulfillment of that life... which can ONLY be sustained BY BEARING OF THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND YOUR MEANS TO EXERCISE THAT RIGHT.

That the Nazis usurped the means of tens of millions to exercise their rights, in NO WAY stripped those people of their rights. Those people failed to bear their responsibility to defend their means to exercise their rights... and as result succumbed to the inevitable consequences of that failure.

We, the Americans... we destroyed the NAZIS by bearing our responsibilities to exercise our rights.

Just as we will do when we destroy you people, once sufficient numbers of you join with Islam, and cross that unknown line, looming out there in the inevitable future.

Here, allow me to show you what that looks like:

Are you really unable to see what this is? It is a power play by big polluters and their lobbyists who own Republicans to castrate the EPA and make money without having to protect the public from harm. There is no need for 5 year effective dates or studies to regulate poisons we know are harmful to human beings.

You folks are terrorists

There's NOTHING complex about ANY of this... yet is all seems completely beyond your limited intellectual means.

Blather and bullshit.

There seem to be studies out there ....a host of them that make both sides of the argument.

Who can tell what is true and what is not.

I can... it's all very basic stuff. There's nothing complex about any of it.

No you can't. And you haven't deciphered anything yet.

LOL! Now isn't that PRECIOUS?

It feels that its own 'comprehension challenges' literally alter reality!

LMAO! How adorable is THAT?

When liberals have to LIE to trick their own base into supporting their policies, well there you have it.

Post the lies!

Ahahaha denial ^^^

No, it was a challenge. If you're going to post an allegation, you need to post probative evidence. Your response suggests you are a troll; be very careful, the society of trolls has standards, low, but higher than the tripe you've posted.

Are you accusing someone else of 'trolling'? Even as you deny that Left-think lies?

Left-think? A set of ideas that could not exist in a reality absent deceit... you're asking for examples of Leftist Lies? the Ideology which rests upon three fundamental elements: Deceit, FRAUD and Ignorance... You are challenging your opposition to cite examples of LIES from that cult?

Fine...

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan"
"I didn't have sex with that woman"
"WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES [THE TRUTH] MAKE!!!??"
obamacare... IRS, Fast and Furious, Benghazi...

Anything gettin' through here?

Do you really believe you are making an argument?

You are chanting...LOL.

I don't need to 'believe' anything... my ability to READ is all that is needed here.
Your 'reasoning' fails on every conceivable level.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The individual issues are all too real: assaults on unions, public employees, women's rights, immigrants, the environment, health care, voting rights, food safety, pensions, prenatal care, science, public broadcasting, and on and on.

Unions are not under attack, they're archaic and counter-productive.

Public employees are not under attack, management of public employees which fails to hold them accountable, is rightly criticized, due to its destructive nature... see: Unions are archaic.

No one is attacking women's rights.... you're likely trying to argue that a right exists to murder another due to one's behavior having conceived the other, thus demanding a right to murder another, for whom you're solely responsible, as a means to avoid bearing responsibility for one's actions.

No one is attacking immigrants... you're likely trying to conflate legal immigration with the destructive ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. It's illegal for a host of sound reasons.

No one is advocating for destruction of the environment.

The only people known to have harmed healthcare in the US are those who are responsible for using DECEIT AND FRAUD as a means to INFLUENCE THE STUPID.

No one is contesting voter's rights... you're likely confusing voter's rights with the voter's responsibility to identify themselves through the use of a credible ID.

And so on... with each and every one of the other issues you noted.

"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

LOL...you say unions are not under attack...then you attack unions.

Public employee are under attack as are unions...see Wisconsin and teachers

You hide behind 'legal' on immigration, then totally disregard the law on abortion.

Immigrants are being attacked...see Arizona S.B 1070 racial profiling law written by a white supremacist Republican.

The environment is being attacked...see US House bill H.R. 2250, a dangerous bill that allows mercury and other toxic air pollution to pour freely from thousands of the nation's worst air polluters. H.R. 2250 exempts industrial boilers (the on-site power plants at major industrial plants) and industrial waste incinerators from the Clean Air Act's pollution control requirements. It encourages companies to burn tires, plastics, used chemicals, spent solvents and other industrial wastes without doing anything to control the resulting toxic air pollution.

The deceit in our health care system is Wall Street investors who have created real death panels by punishing any insurance corporation that spends too much of premiums on treatments. And hospitals and doctors who rip off taxpayers.

Voter suppression by Republicans goes way beyond voter ID. It is about making voting a day long gauntlet with long lines and not enough polling places.


"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

You consider the situation in Wisconsin as an "attack" only because it upset the decades existing apple cart that the democrats and the union bosses set up to help each other.
The dems wrote laws to protect the unions as long as the unions promised their undying support of union friendly democrats. The unions collect dues and funnel them into union friendly campaign coffers. Money laundering. Meanwhile wages increased and benefits packages more lucrative. The end result was someone had to pay. The state was hitting up property owners with ever increasing taxes. The union bosses are the ones that ruined their own deal with their greed.
Of course the rhetoric from the union bosses and the rank and file became absurd.
"we don't like you scrutinizing us....So you must hate teachers".....We don't want anyone screwing with our benefits. You hate workers:"
Democrat legislators outnumbered by republicans in both Wisconsin Houses, actually went so far as to run and hide outside the State boundaries so there could be no voting on bills. That's absurd.
Anyway. In civil service states such as New Jersey and New York where taxes have reached stratospheric levels, public employee wages and benefits are being closely examined for cuts. And it's about time. In NJ it got so bad that property taxes some times were increased as much as 20% in a single year.
And when tax caps were passed by democrat majority State assembly and Senate houses in NJ, who was the loudest bunch to protest? The public employees and the unions that represent them....
And in NY Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo did the unthinkable and went against the wishes of public worker union bosses.

It was an attack in Wisconsin against teachers. BUT, Walker exempted unions who supported his campaign.

All that power by unions and Democrats created LOWER wages for teacher compared to private sector jobs.

Are Public Employees Overpaid?


Walker has said that the labor changes are necessary because Wisconsin’s local and state employees haven’t made the same sacrifices during the Great Recession as private sector workers.

Walker glossed over the fact that state employees had eight unpaid furlough days in 2009 and 2010, which saved the state $121 million, and their wages have been flat for years.

He also forgot to mention that when he was Milwaukee County executive, members of the largest county employee union took 26 unpaid furlough days in 2010, or one unpaid day off for every two-week pay period—a 10% pay cut. They’ll have 26 unpaid days off this year, too, as a result of Walker’s final county budget. (The employees at the Shepherd Express, a private sector company, did not have any wage decreases or forced furlough days.)

So is Walker correct when he says that public employees are making more than their counterparts in the private sector?

The short answer is no, according to a new study by the national nonpartisan Economic Policy Institute (EPI), which found that Wisconsin’s state and local employees earn 4.8% less per hour in total compensation than their peers in the private sector. That number jumps to 25% for college-educated employees. EPI found that, on average, Wisconsin’s public employees with a bachelor’s degree earn $61,668 in total compensation; their peers working for private employers earn $82,134 in wages and benefits.

And although Gov. Scott Walker is earning $144,423 as a public sector employee with “some college” education, his pay package is not typical. Public sector employees who attended college but did not earn a diploma earn an average $46,707 in wages and benefits, while those in the private sector earn 7% more, or $50,324, EPI found.

I know about that study. The one thing it left out is the fact that the study compared ALL earners rather than using similar occupations working similar job types and an approximate equal amount of hours. It also ignores the benefits packages the unionized public employees receive and failed to place a dollar value on those.
Lastly. Public employees are funded entirely off the taxpayers. There is a direct correlation to rising taxes and public sector compensation. When the "correct" people are in power at the State Capital, wages and benefits for public employees increase in complete disregard of the economic conditions. It is only when tax revenues are less than projected levels ,do public employees ever feel the pain that their private sector counterparts have been experiencing for years.
Please,. There are reems of facts which counter the results of your study.
IN the past 10 years for example in NJ which has the highest avg property taxes in the country saw over $70 billion in wealth leave the state.
In NY it was even worse. over $100 billion in wealth left that state in the decade ending 2009. And why are these people selling their homes? Taxes. When a married couple how owns a home for 25 years and sees their tax levy increase 1000% over that 25 year span, it causes them to take stock in what it is they are doing and why.
1000%..yes. You bet.....here's an example.
When my parents sold our house in 1984 their annual tax levy was just under $1000 per year. I just checked the tax card on that house. Now, the assessed value of the property is $390k That is about three times the sale price my parents got for it in 1984. The annual tax lever is almost TEN THOUSAND dollars.
Here is the tax record with address and personal info of the owner redacted

Property Location
County	02 - Bergen
District	40 - Northvale Boro
Block Number
Lot Number
Qualifier
Property Class	2 - Residential
Land Description	101X150 1LT
Building Description	1SF
Acreage	0.3478
Land Value	271,300
Building Value	124,800
Net Value	396,100
Prior Year's Taxes	$9,961.92
Prior Year's Net Value	396,100

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

These taxes back in the 1980's were manageable.
Look, the cost of everything rises. That's a given.
But a 1000% increase in taxes in 30 years when if indexed to inflation the taxes on this property would be $2294 in todays dollars.
Are you really going to maintain that public sector unions and their rank and file are pure as the freshly fallen snow?
That you buy into the "poor abused public sector worker" nonsense?
That the people of NJ deserve to pay these absurd amounts in taxation?
BTW, My brother's wife's mother lives in a small home in southern NJ. The tax value on her home which is about 1100 Sf is a little under $90k. Her taxes are almost $3k per year. That works out to a rate of $4.80 per hundred of assessed value. BTW, NJ State law was changed some 20 years ago by then Public Enemy number one Gov Jim Florio who among other things ran a campaign that claimed "those wealthy people in Northern NJ don't pay their fair share in taxes" And he also promised to increase the ratio of assessments on residential property from 75% of market value to 100% of market value. This despite the real estate prices spiraling out of control. This despite the fact that tax revenues to the state and municipalities were at record levels. Most of which was attributed to annual tax levy increases of 10% or more.
All of which was done as payback to the public sector unions which received the lion's share of the tax bounty....And the near lockstep support from rank and file at the ballot box.
If you think this is a fair and just system, then you are nothing but a pro union at all costs partisan hack.

 

[Bfgrn]

You are exhibiting ZERO reasoning. Nature has nothing to do with human rights, and neither does God. How did God do protecting human rights in Nazi Germany? How is He doing in Iraq and Syria now??

God gives you your life, and the RIGHT to pursue the fulfillment of that life... which can ONLY be sustained BY BEARING OF THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND YOUR MEANS TO EXERCISE THAT RIGHT.

That the Nazis usurped the means of tens of millions to exercise their rights, in NO WAY stripped those people of their rights. Those people failed to bear their responsibility to defend their means to exercise their rights... and as result succumbed to the inevitable consequences of that failure.

We, the Americans... we destroyed the NAZIS by bearing our responsibilities to exercise our rights.

Just as we will do when we destroy you people, once sufficient numbers of you join with Islam, and cross that unknown line, looming out there in the inevitable future.

Here, allow me to show you what that looks like:

Are you really unable to see what this is? It is a power play by big polluters and their lobbyists who own Republicans to castrate the EPA and make money without having to protect the public from harm. There is no need for 5 year effective dates or studies to regulate poisons we know are harmful to human beings.

You folks are terrorists

There's NOTHING complex about ANY of this... yet is all seems completely beyond your limited intellectual means.

So let me make sure I understand what you are saying Einstein. The Jews were at fault for not defending themselves from genocide.

BTW, what is the name of the 'God' who gives Jihadists their life?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

So let me make sure I understand what you are saying Einstein. The Jews were at fault for not defending themselves from genocide.

Yeah... As hard as it may be for you to comprehend, the Jews in Germany and the surrounding nations ALLOWED THEMSELVES TO BE EVISCERATED... like sheep to the slaughter.

(That's sorta the whole thing behind the "NEVER AGAIN!" sentiment and why Israel exists and the purpose of the IDF. )

But if it helps, the other minorities are also responsible... most notably the homosexuals who were VERY MUCH proponents of the NAZIS... right up to the point where the NAZIS rounded 'em up, yanked their teeth out, shaved their heads and slaughtered 'em by the GROSS! The Gypsies, they didn't vote...proving once again that truth serves reason all the way through the negative.

 

[thereisnospoon]

No....Bigfrn would simply use Google to find the answers.
If you cannot handle that, tough shit.

He wouldn't need google to answer civics questions. Why are you so mistrusting?

Oh Ok... Here's one for ya:

From where do Human Rights come and by what means are such sustained?

Knock yourselves out...

(Enjoy kids... )

Human rights, going back to the Magna Carta are the domain of government with the support of the citizenry.

So you're saying that Human Rights come from Government? And you are assuring us that this is true, because the Magna Carta said so... ?

ROFLMNAO!

Well folks, as I noted earlier, sound reasoning NEVER requires validation, but it is always nice where one's opponents provides for such.

FTR: The Magna Carta, in effect, recognized that God is the supreme authority and that the King is NOT God... .

Therefore, according to the Magna Carta: Human Rights... come from God and that the only true purpose of government is to defend the innocent from those who would usurp God's will, thus preclude humanity from exercising the gifts given to them, by God.

Again, EPIC fail. God does not interfere with the free will of man. He only has the final say. NO human rights are possible without government enforcing those rights. NONE, without government, got it?

Bullshit. We as people created government. And We gave government permission to make laws which are designed to punish those who violate the God given rights of others.
The Second Amendment also affirms MY right to keep and bear arms. It state law also affirms MY right to protect my life and property with deadly force ( if necessary and reasonable).....God gave us the right to life and property. We use government to insure those rights are protected.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Again, EPIC fail. God does not interfere with the free will of man. He only has the final say. NO human rights are possible without government enforcing those rights. NONE, without government, got it?

Well, sound reasoning never requires validation, but it is always nice when validation comes along.

The above contribution, to which I am responding here, is a CLASSIC demonstration of why There are NO LEFTIST AMERICANS.

Nature precludes the means of one to adhere to the antithesis, which claiming adherence to the thesis. Simply can't be done.

You are exhibiting ZERO reasoning. Nature has nothing to do with human rights, and neither does God. How did God do protecting human rights in Nazi Germany? How is He doing in Iraq and Syria now??

God gives us natural rights. It is up to the individual to protect those rights as he sees fit.
And to turn your question around.....Where was the German government when the rights of the Jews were under threat?
You make an argument then cannot support it.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Again, EPIC fail. God does not interfere with the free will of man. He only has the final say. NO human rights are possible without government enforcing those rights. NONE, without government, got it?

Well, sound reasoning never requires validation, but it is always nice when validation comes along.

The above contribution, to which I am responding here, is a CLASSIC demonstration of why There are NO LEFTIST AMERICANS.

Nature precludes the means of one to adhere to the antithesis, which claiming adherence to the thesis. Simply can't be done.

You are exhibiting ZERO reasoning. Nature has nothing to do with human rights, and neither does God. How did God do protecting human rights in Nazi Germany? How is He doing in Iraq and Syria now??

God gives us natural rights. It is up to the individual to protect those rights as he sees fit.
And to turn your question around.....Where was the German government when the rights of the Jews were under threat?
You make an argument then cannot support it.

LOL!

OOOps!

(Ya NAILED IT Spoon!)

 

[Kosh]

I love threads like this started by far left posters that show that they run on a narrative not based on reality..

More proof that the far left should not be in charge of anything related to government..

 

[Bfgrn]

The individual issues are all too real: assaults on unions, public employees, women's rights, immigrants, the environment, health care, voting rights, food safety, pensions, prenatal care, science, public broadcasting, and on and on.

Unions are not under attack, they're archaic and counter-productive.

Public employees are not under attack, management of public employees which fails to hold them accountable, is rightly criticized, due to its destructive nature... see: Unions are archaic.

No one is attacking women's rights.... you're likely trying to argue that a right exists to murder another due to one's behavior having conceived the other, thus demanding a right to murder another, for whom you're solely responsible, as a means to avoid bearing responsibility for one's actions.

No one is attacking immigrants... you're likely trying to conflate legal immigration with the destructive ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. It's illegal for a host of sound reasons.

No one is advocating for destruction of the environment.

The only people known to have harmed healthcare in the US are those who are responsible for using DECEIT AND FRAUD as a means to INFLUENCE THE STUPID.

No one is contesting voter's rights... you're likely confusing voter's rights with the voter's responsibility to identify themselves through the use of a credible ID.

And so on... with each and every one of the other issues you noted.

"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

LOL...you say unions are not under attack...then you attack unions.

Public employee are under attack as are unions...see Wisconsin and teachers

You hide behind 'legal' on immigration, then totally disregard the law on abortion.

Immigrants are being attacked...see Arizona S.B 1070 racial profiling law written by a white supremacist Republican.

The environment is being attacked...see US House bill H.R. 2250, a dangerous bill that allows mercury and other toxic air pollution to pour freely from thousands of the nation's worst air polluters. H.R. 2250 exempts industrial boilers (the on-site power plants at major industrial plants) and industrial waste incinerators from the Clean Air Act's pollution control requirements. It encourages companies to burn tires, plastics, used chemicals, spent solvents and other industrial wastes without doing anything to control the resulting toxic air pollution.

The deceit in our health care system is Wall Street investors who have created real death panels by punishing any insurance corporation that spends too much of premiums on treatments. And hospitals and doctors who rip off taxpayers.

Voter suppression by Republicans goes way beyond voter ID. It is about making voting a day long gauntlet with long lines and not enough polling places.


"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

You consider the situation in Wisconsin as an "attack" only because it upset the decades existing apple cart that the democrats and the union bosses set up to help each other.
The dems wrote laws to protect the unions as long as the unions promised their undying support of union friendly democrats. The unions collect dues and funnel them into union friendly campaign coffers. Money laundering. Meanwhile wages increased and benefits packages more lucrative. The end result was someone had to pay. The state was hitting up property owners with ever increasing taxes. The union bosses are the ones that ruined their own deal with their greed.
Of course the rhetoric from the union bosses and the rank and file became absurd.
"we don't like you scrutinizing us....So you must hate teachers".....We don't want anyone screwing with our benefits. You hate workers:"
Democrat legislators outnumbered by republicans in both Wisconsin Houses, actually went so far as to run and hide outside the State boundaries so there could be no voting on bills. That's absurd.
Anyway. In civil service states such as New Jersey and New York where taxes have reached stratospheric levels, public employee wages and benefits are being closely examined for cuts. And it's about time. In NJ it got so bad that property taxes some times were increased as much as 20% in a single year.
And when tax caps were passed by democrat majority State assembly and Senate houses in NJ, who was the loudest bunch to protest? The public employees and the unions that represent them....
And in NY Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo did the unthinkable and went against the wishes of public worker union bosses.

It was an attack in Wisconsin against teachers. BUT, Walker exempted unions who supported his campaign.

All that power by unions and Democrats created LOWER wages for teacher compared to private sector jobs.

Are Public Employees Overpaid?


Walker has said that the labor changes are necessary because Wisconsin’s local and state employees haven’t made the same sacrifices during the Great Recession as private sector workers.

Walker glossed over the fact that state employees had eight unpaid furlough days in 2009 and 2010, which saved the state $121 million, and their wages have been flat for years.

He also forgot to mention that when he was Milwaukee County executive, members of the largest county employee union took 26 unpaid furlough days in 2010, or one unpaid day off for every two-week pay period—a 10% pay cut. They’ll have 26 unpaid days off this year, too, as a result of Walker’s final county budget. (The employees at the Shepherd Express, a private sector company, did not have any wage decreases or forced furlough days.)

So is Walker correct when he says that public employees are making more than their counterparts in the private sector?

The short answer is no, according to a new study by the national nonpartisan Economic Policy Institute (EPI), which found that Wisconsin’s state and local employees earn 4.8% less per hour in total compensation than their peers in the private sector. That number jumps to 25% for college-educated employees. EPI found that, on average, Wisconsin’s public employees with a bachelor’s degree earn $61,668 in total compensation; their peers working for private employers earn $82,134 in wages and benefits.

And although Gov. Scott Walker is earning $144,423 as a public sector employee with “some college” education, his pay package is not typical. Public sector employees who attended college but did not earn a diploma earn an average $46,707 in wages and benefits, while those in the private sector earn 7% more, or $50,324, EPI found.

I know about that study. The one thing it left out is the fact that the study compared ALL earners rather than using similar occupations working similar job types and an approximate equal amount of hours. It also ignores the benefits packages the unionized public employees receive and failed to place a dollar value on those.
Lastly. Public employees are funded entirely off the taxpayers. There is a direct correlation to rising taxes and public sector compensation. When the "correct" people are in power at the State Capital, wages and benefits for public employees increase in complete disregard of the economic conditions. It is only when tax revenues are less than projected levels ,do public employees ever feel the pain that their private sector counterparts have been experiencing for years.
Please,. There are reems of facts which counter the results of your study.
IN the past 10 years for example in NJ which has the highest avg property taxes in the country saw over $70 billion in wealth leave the state.
In NY it was even worse. over $100 billion in wealth left that state in the decade ending 2009. And why are these people selling their homes? Taxes. When a married couple how owns a home for 25 years and sees their tax levy increase 1000% over that 25 year span, it causes them to take stock in what it is they are doing and why.
1000%..yes. You bet.....here's an example.
When my parents sold our house in 1984 their annual tax levy was just under $1000 per year. I just checked the tax card on that house. Now, the assessed value of the property is $390k That is about three times the sale price my parents got for it in 1984. The annual tax lever is almost TEN THOUSAND dollars.
Here is the tax record with address and personal info of the owner redacted

Property Location
County	02 - Bergen
District	40 - Northvale Boro
Block Number
Lot Number
Qualifier
Property Class	2 - Residential
Land Description	101X150 1LT
Building Description	1SF
Acreage	0.3478
Land Value	271,300
Building Value	124,800
Net Value	396,100
Prior Year's Taxes	$9,961.92
Prior Year's Net Value	396,100

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

These taxes back in the 1980's were manageable.
Look, the cost of everything rises. That's a given.
But a 1000% increase in taxes in 30 years when if indexed to inflation the taxes on this property would be $2294 in todays dollars.
Are you really going to maintain that public sector unions and their rank and file are pure as the freshly fallen snow?
That you buy into the "poor abused public sector worker" nonsense?
That the people of NJ deserve to pay these absurd amounts in taxation?
BTW, My brother's wife's mother lives in a small home in southern NJ. The tax value on her home which is about 1100 Sf is a little under $90k. Her taxes are almost $3k per year. That works out to a rate of $4.80 per hundred of assessed value. BTW, NJ State law was changed some 20 years ago by then Public Enemy number one Gov Jim Florio who among other things ran a campaign that claimed "those wealthy people in Northern NJ don't pay their fair share in taxes" And he also promised to increase the ratio of assessments on residential property from 75% of market value to 100% of market value. This despite the real estate prices spiraling out of control. This despite the fact that tax revenues to the state and municipalities were at record levels. Most of which was attributed to annual tax levy increases of 10% or more.
All of which was done as payback to the public sector unions which received the lion's share of the tax bounty....And the near lockstep support from rank and file at the ballot box.
If you think this is a fair and just system, then you are nothing but a pro union at all costs partisan hack.

You don't know the study. Wisconsin has the second-highest high school graduation rate in the country, yet Wisconsin teacher fall below the national average in pay. The average Wisconsin teacher salary ranks 43rd. And for all your bluster, wild claims like money laundering and conspiracy theories NONE of the numbers support your claims.

And you are ignoring this important FACT.

The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can this be possible?

Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.

The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions - Forbes

 

[Kosh]

Unions are not under attack, they're archaic and counter-productive.

Public employees are not under attack, management of public employees which fails to hold them accountable, is rightly criticized, due to its destructive nature... see: Unions are archaic.

No one is attacking women's rights.... you're likely trying to argue that a right exists to murder another due to one's behavior having conceived the other, thus demanding a right to murder another, for whom you're solely responsible, as a means to avoid bearing responsibility for one's actions.

No one is attacking immigrants... you're likely trying to conflate legal immigration with the destructive ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. It's illegal for a host of sound reasons.

No one is advocating for destruction of the environment.

The only people known to have harmed healthcare in the US are those who are responsible for using DECEIT AND FRAUD as a means to INFLUENCE THE STUPID.

No one is contesting voter's rights... you're likely confusing voter's rights with the voter's responsibility to identify themselves through the use of a credible ID.

And so on... with each and every one of the other issues you noted.

"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

LOL...you say unions are not under attack...then you attack unions.

Public employee are under attack as are unions...see Wisconsin and teachers

You hide behind 'legal' on immigration, then totally disregard the law on abortion.

Immigrants are being attacked...see Arizona S.B 1070 racial profiling law written by a white supremacist Republican.

The environment is being attacked...see US House bill H.R. 2250, a dangerous bill that allows mercury and other toxic air pollution to pour freely from thousands of the nation's worst air polluters. H.R. 2250 exempts industrial boilers (the on-site power plants at major industrial plants) and industrial waste incinerators from the Clean Air Act's pollution control requirements. It encourages companies to burn tires, plastics, used chemicals, spent solvents and other industrial wastes without doing anything to control the resulting toxic air pollution.

The deceit in our health care system is Wall Street investors who have created real death panels by punishing any insurance corporation that spends too much of premiums on treatments. And hospitals and doctors who rip off taxpayers.

Voter suppression by Republicans goes way beyond voter ID. It is about making voting a day long gauntlet with long lines and not enough polling places.


"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

You consider the situation in Wisconsin as an "attack" only because it upset the decades existing apple cart that the democrats and the union bosses set up to help each other.
The dems wrote laws to protect the unions as long as the unions promised their undying support of union friendly democrats. The unions collect dues and funnel them into union friendly campaign coffers. Money laundering. Meanwhile wages increased and benefits packages more lucrative. The end result was someone had to pay. The state was hitting up property owners with ever increasing taxes. The union bosses are the ones that ruined their own deal with their greed.
Of course the rhetoric from the union bosses and the rank and file became absurd.
"we don't like you scrutinizing us....So you must hate teachers".....We don't want anyone screwing with our benefits. You hate workers:"
Democrat legislators outnumbered by republicans in both Wisconsin Houses, actually went so far as to run and hide outside the State boundaries so there could be no voting on bills. That's absurd.
Anyway. In civil service states such as New Jersey and New York where taxes have reached stratospheric levels, public employee wages and benefits are being closely examined for cuts. And it's about time. In NJ it got so bad that property taxes some times were increased as much as 20% in a single year.
And when tax caps were passed by democrat majority State assembly and Senate houses in NJ, who was the loudest bunch to protest? The public employees and the unions that represent them....
And in NY Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo did the unthinkable and went against the wishes of public worker union bosses.

It was an attack in Wisconsin against teachers. BUT, Walker exempted unions who supported his campaign.

All that power by unions and Democrats created LOWER wages for teacher compared to private sector jobs.

Are Public Employees Overpaid?


Walker has said that the labor changes are necessary because Wisconsin’s local and state employees haven’t made the same sacrifices during the Great Recession as private sector workers.

Walker glossed over the fact that state employees had eight unpaid furlough days in 2009 and 2010, which saved the state $121 million, and their wages have been flat for years.

He also forgot to mention that when he was Milwaukee County executive, members of the largest county employee union took 26 unpaid furlough days in 2010, or one unpaid day off for every two-week pay period—a 10% pay cut. They’ll have 26 unpaid days off this year, too, as a result of Walker’s final county budget. (The employees at the Shepherd Express, a private sector company, did not have any wage decreases or forced furlough days.)

So is Walker correct when he says that public employees are making more than their counterparts in the private sector?

The short answer is no, according to a new study by the national nonpartisan Economic Policy Institute (EPI), which found that Wisconsin’s state and local employees earn 4.8% less per hour in total compensation than their peers in the private sector. That number jumps to 25% for college-educated employees. EPI found that, on average, Wisconsin’s public employees with a bachelor’s degree earn $61,668 in total compensation; their peers working for private employers earn $82,134 in wages and benefits.

And although Gov. Scott Walker is earning $144,423 as a public sector employee with “some college” education, his pay package is not typical. Public sector employees who attended college but did not earn a diploma earn an average $46,707 in wages and benefits, while those in the private sector earn 7% more, or $50,324, EPI found.

I know about that study. The one thing it left out is the fact that the study compared ALL earners rather than using similar occupations working similar job types and an approximate equal amount of hours. It also ignores the benefits packages the unionized public employees receive and failed to place a dollar value on those.
Lastly. Public employees are funded entirely off the taxpayers. There is a direct correlation to rising taxes and public sector compensation. When the "correct" people are in power at the State Capital, wages and benefits for public employees increase in complete disregard of the economic conditions. It is only when tax revenues are less than projected levels ,do public employees ever feel the pain that their private sector counterparts have been experiencing for years.
Please,. There are reems of facts which counter the results of your study.
IN the past 10 years for example in NJ which has the highest avg property taxes in the country saw over $70 billion in wealth leave the state.
In NY it was even worse. over $100 billion in wealth left that state in the decade ending 2009. And why are these people selling their homes? Taxes. When a married couple how owns a home for 25 years and sees their tax levy increase 1000% over that 25 year span, it causes them to take stock in what it is they are doing and why.
1000%..yes. You bet.....here's an example.
When my parents sold our house in 1984 their annual tax levy was just under $1000 per year. I just checked the tax card on that house. Now, the assessed value of the property is $390k That is about three times the sale price my parents got for it in 1984. The annual tax lever is almost TEN THOUSAND dollars.
Here is the tax record with address and personal info of the owner redacted

Property Location
County	02 - Bergen
District	40 - Northvale Boro
Block Number
Lot Number
Qualifier
Property Class	2 - Residential
Land Description	101X150 1LT
Building Description	1SF
Acreage	0.3478
Land Value	271,300
Building Value	124,800
Net Value	396,100
Prior Year's Taxes	$9,961.92
Prior Year's Net Value	396,100

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

These taxes back in the 1980's were manageable.
Look, the cost of everything rises. That's a given.
But a 1000% increase in taxes in 30 years when if indexed to inflation the taxes on this property would be $2294 in todays dollars.
Are you really going to maintain that public sector unions and their rank and file are pure as the freshly fallen snow?
That you buy into the "poor abused public sector worker" nonsense?
That the people of NJ deserve to pay these absurd amounts in taxation?
BTW, My brother's wife's mother lives in a small home in southern NJ. The tax value on her home which is about 1100 Sf is a little under $90k. Her taxes are almost $3k per year. That works out to a rate of $4.80 per hundred of assessed value. BTW, NJ State law was changed some 20 years ago by then Public Enemy number one Gov Jim Florio who among other things ran a campaign that claimed "those wealthy people in Northern NJ don't pay their fair share in taxes" And he also promised to increase the ratio of assessments on residential property from 75% of market value to 100% of market value. This despite the real estate prices spiraling out of control. This despite the fact that tax revenues to the state and municipalities were at record levels. Most of which was attributed to annual tax levy increases of 10% or more.
All of which was done as payback to the public sector unions which received the lion's share of the tax bounty....And the near lockstep support from rank and file at the ballot box.
If you think this is a fair and just system, then you are nothing but a pro union at all costs partisan hack.

You don't know the study. Wisconsin has the second-highest high school graduation rate in the country, yet Wisconsin teacher fall below the national average in pay. The average Wisconsin teacher salary ranks 43rd. And for all your bluster, wild claims like money laundering and conspiracy theories NONE of the numbers support your claims.

And you are ignoring this important FACT.

The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can this be possible?

Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.

The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions - Forbes

The far left can not see the irony of their posts!

 

[Bfgrn]

Again, EPIC fail. God does not interfere with the free will of man. He only has the final say. NO human rights are possible without government enforcing those rights. NONE, without government, got it?

Well, sound reasoning never requires validation, but it is always nice when validation comes along.

The above contribution, to which I am responding here, is a CLASSIC demonstration of why There are NO LEFTIST AMERICANS.

Nature precludes the means of one to adhere to the antithesis, which claiming adherence to the thesis. Simply can't be done.

You are exhibiting ZERO reasoning. Nature has nothing to do with human rights, and neither does God. How did God do protecting human rights in Nazi Germany? How is He doing in Iraq and Syria now??

God gives us natural rights. It is up to the individual to protect those rights as he sees fit.
And to turn your question around.....Where was the German government when the rights of the Jews were under threat?
You make an argument then cannot support it.

LOL!

OOOps!

(Ya NAILED IT Spoon!)

Actually you just unwittingly nailed yourself...without government to enforce human rights (Germany), the Jews only hope was to flee their country.

Interesting that your philosophy is perfectly aligned with some very famous people...

Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao et al: The Role of Darwinian Evolution in Their Lives


The Social Weapon: Darwinism

http://www.harunyahya.com/en/works/3984/

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The Wisconsin Lie Exposed - Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions - Forbes

The title ALONE is a profound and otherwise obvious deceit...